Need help with this LATEST water leak issue~

**evomel** · 02-25-2018, 09:00 AM

Your correct Dennis the inner hose wont fit over the nipple- it only butts against it- go figure right- I'm going to try that LifeCalk for sure living near Freeport lots of boat supply places here to visit and pick that stuff up- Oh the specs on the inside I pretty much know cause when I went to ACE and Homedepot I nearly matched the inside BMW hose so Have that info- will get that up soon. All good suggestions thank you !!!! YES I think the top of the nipple is where most of the debris gets all stuck jammed and leads to leaks the tube itself is so narrow no leaves could possibly ever get down into- I just still scratch my head why the sunroof seal doesn't do its job and totally block all water from entering the tray area when the sunroof is closed to begun with !

Originally Posted by DennisG01

Without seeing it in person and touching/feeling it, I'm not understanding how that is all supposed to fit together if the inner hose won't fit in or on the nipple. Only butting up against it isn't really the best approach (if that's what it really does). Again, this is without being there and physically seeing it, but I wonder if cutting out the inner hose to be flush with the bottom of the boot would make sense? I mean, if it doesn't fit nicely against/on/whatever the nipple, then it creates a choke point for debris. Could this be where the system typically clogs up? Or... instead of trying to cut out the inner hose, squirting the LifeCalk into the boot could accomplish the same thing.

Maybe if you take some accurate measurements we can figure out where the inner hose ends up compared to the nipple end? Or take the old boot fitting and cut a narrow slit into it lengthwise to create a "cut away" and then slip it on?

Good luck - I know how crazy water leaks can make a person. The fact that you found the exact leak spot, though, is HUGE. If you feel the boot (the new one) still has to be stretched a little too much to make it all the way on the nipple, just take an inch or two of the old hose and splice it into the new one with barb fittings... and LifeCalk/zip ties! The only downside (and it's really only a small one) is that the barb fitting will create a spot where the inside of the tube narrows down slightly. However, another way to do this is to use a hose that has the same ID as the main hose's (the BMW hose) OD. Use that as a slip connector to add a little length (the LifeCalk can glue everything together. Tip... heat the larger hose slightly to make it easier to slip over the main hose.

Just a whole bunch of random thoughts there - which are worth no more than the paper they are written on (hint... "zero" paper was used)

**BimmrMeUpSnotty** · 02-25-2018, 09:46 AM

The sunroof seal is designed to slow down the flow of rain water to a trickle onto the sunroof rail. The drains are supposed to drain the water out. If you maintain clearing the drains properly, you wouldn't have so much debris jam up the works. Clean them regularly, some say once a year, some do it every time they wash the car. I shoot compressed air to clear mine, twice a year. If you park the car next to a tree outside, I would probably do it 4 or 6 times a year. I have done this with every car that I have owned, that's had a sunroof all the way back to my E28 back in the mid '80's. It is not just BMW, this happens to every car with a sunroof. If you want to keep scratching your head, do nothing and neglect all these little things, you will be rewarded.

**evomel** · 02-25-2018, 09:53 AM

well- my the 540 gets parked on the street small tree no leaves ever hit it - so no debris get t o it case closed - my wife car a toyota land cruiser sits in the drive way with two large trees TONS of debris on it year round with A LARGE sunroof 2001 MODEL

never ever had an issue with any leak from any door - floor- window- sunroof or any area- FULLY REWARDED

the BMW is just nasty to me with all the $$$$ thrown at it

Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty

The sunroof seal is designed to slow down the flow of rain water to a trickle onto the sunroof rail. The drains are supposed to drain the water out. If you maintain clearing the drains properly, you wouldn't have so much debris jam up the works. Clean them regularly, some say once a year, some do it every time they wash the car. I shoot compressed air to clear mine, twice a year. If you park the car next to a tree outside, I would probably do it 4 or 6 times a year. I have done this with every car that I have owned, that's had a sunroof all the way back to my E28 back in the mid '80's. It is not just BMW, this happens to every car with a sunroof. If you want to keep scratching your head, do nothing and neglect all these little things, you will be rewarded.

**TheAngryBear** · 02-25-2018, 10:04 AM

And sure enough the Land Cruiser has four drain hoses to the sunroof.
https://parts.olathetoyota.com/auto-...t/sunroof-scat
Maybe a larger diameter with a larger vehicle but the principle is the same.
Edit: guessed at the ‘10 because why not?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**BimmrMeUpSnotty** · 02-25-2018, 10:05 AM

Just because you don't park next to a tree doesn't mean no debris gets in there. I'm talking about small tiny little suckers that manages to ooze in with the water, if neglected, then it eventually dams up. I am telling you all this from experience, working on autobody through the years, I have also diagnosed many issues just like the one you are having. It almost always comes down to neglect. Here is a question, I have not bothered to read this whole train wreck to find out, what is the condition of your sunroof seal? Maybe it's all ragged out and needs to be replaced?

**evomel** · 02-25-2018, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty

Just because you don't park next to a tree doesn't mean no debris gets in there. I'm talking about small tiny little suckers that manages to ooze in with the water, if neglected, then it eventually dams up. I am telling you all this from experience, working on autobody through the years, I have also diagnosed many issues just like the one you are having. It almost always comes down to neglect. Here is a question, I have not bothered to read this whole train wreck to find out, what is the condition of your sunroof seal? Maybe it's all ragged out and needs to be replaced?

Good question - sunroof seal im assuming its original it looks in good condition no cracks or missing areas on it I know it's not to expensive of a Part to replace you think I should go ahead and order one?

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by TheAngryBear

And sure enough the Land Cruiser has four drain hoses to the sunroof.
https://parts.olathetoyota.com/auto-...t/sunroof-scat
Maybe a larger diameter with a larger vehicle but the principle is the same.
Edit: guessed at the ‘10 because why not?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yes all cars with sunroofs have drain systems but seems BMW's for some Reason are prone to more failures than other less expensive manufactures

**DennisG01** · 02-25-2018, 06:00 PM

Well, looks like I'm going to be taking some of my own advice! I've had the drivers seat out and carpet removed to dry things out from a door insulation/vapor barrier leak. I did verify that water was coming in that way, but it bugged me that the amount of water that dripped in didn't seem like enough to validate the amount of water I found under the carpet. Before I removed the carpet I did verify that the sunroof drain drained properly, but that bugged me a bit as well as I though more should be coming out - but since some ran out the rear drain, I didn't think much of it. SO.... I decided to pour water into the sunroof drain once more (interior still removed)... Yup. Lot's of water pouring into the front foot well. When it rains it pours!

Evo, did you take the headliner completely out of the car? Or where you able to get to everything well enough by just dropping the front?

**evomel** · 02-25-2018, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by DennisG01

Well, looks like I'm going to be taking some of my own advice! I've had the drivers seat out and carpet removed to dry things out from a door insulation/vapor barrier leak. I did verify that water was coming in that way, but it bugged me that the amount of water that dripped in didn't seem like enough to validate the amount of water I found under the carpet. Before I removed the carpet I did verify that the sunroof drain drained properly, but that bugged me a bit as well as I though more should be coming out - but since some ran out the rear drain, I didn't think much of it. SO.... I decided to pour water into the sunroof drain once more (interior still removed)... Yup. Lot's of water pouring into the front foot well. When it rains it pours!

Evo, did you take the headliner completely out of the car? Or where you able to get to everything well enough by just dropping the front?

Oh boy Dennis!!! See what I mean - man that sucks. I didn't have to remove the whole headliner - just the A pillar molding and side headliner carefully pulling down enough access just be careful the headliner fiberglass mold is sensitive to stress cracks.

**DennisG01** · 02-25-2018, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by evomel

just be careful the headliner fiberglass mold is sensitive to stress cracks.

Thank you - that's exactly what I was concerned about.

Truth is, there is a possibility that this may have been my fault - especially since both sides are leaking. I used a small, flexible plastic tube to stick into the drain hole and I attached that tube to my air compressor. I mistakenly thought that if the tube fit into the drain hole (which it did, but just barely), then it would also fit into the drain hose... thinking that the hose's ID was equal to or bigger than the drain tube's OD. But after seeing your pictures, it is not. What likely happened is that I pushed the plastic tube into the drain hole to far and pushed the boot off.

So now I have both front seats out and both carpets peeled back. On the plus side, the fuse box under the passenger's feet is nice and clean - no signs of rust or corrosion. Think positive, right!

**evomel** · 02-25-2018, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by DennisG01

Thank you - that's exactly what I was concerned about.

Truth is, there is a possibility that this may have been my fault - especially since both sides are leaking. I used a small, flexible plastic tube to stick into the drain hole and I attached that tube to my air compressor. I mistakenly thought that if the tube fit into the drain hole (which it did, but just barely), then it would also fit into the drain hose... thinking that the hose's ID was equal to or bigger than the drain tube's OD. But after seeing your pictures, it is not. What likely happened is that I pushed the plastic tube into the drain hole to far and pushed the boot off.

So now I have both front seats out and both carpets peeled back. On the plus side, the fuse box under the passenger's feet is nice and clean - no signs of rust or corrosion. Think positive, right!

Oye vai lol - I must have rubbed off my bad luck onto you ! I hope not - that's another great idea the back room guys came up with putting a fuse box on the lowest part of the car inside below the passenger seat lol I guess we will both be playing with tubes and boots this week- yes let's try to think positive - at least it stopped raining lol

**DennisG01** · 02-26-2018, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by evomel

Oye vai lol - I must have rubbed off my bad luck onto you ! I hope not - that's another great idea the back room guys came up with putting a fuse box on the lowest part of the car inside below the passenger seat lol I guess we will both be playing with tubes and boots this week- yes let's try to think positive - at least it stopped raining lol

I hear 'ya!

**DennisG01** · 02-26-2018, 12:15 PM

Oh... wanted to throw out a little tip in regards to the LifeCalk. First, it's messy. As in, you won't understand how it gets certain places messy. So go slow and don't overdo it. Second, squirt a little bit into a sandwich baggie and then snip the tip off - you control the "flow" based on the size of the hole and hard you squeeze the "cake decorating bag". Clean the tip of the bag off regularly.

**Milanese** · 02-26-2018, 12:41 PM

Just wanted to chime in. In case you are sure you fixed the sunroof drain but still see some wet places in your footwell when in rains/when you pour water, check your windshield glass seal.

I got a leak problem, thought it's the sunroof drain, spent a whole day trying to "fix" it only to find out the drain was fine and the problem was little more down the water path, i.e. the windshield seal.

I was pouring water over the roof and was seeing drips into the footwell so I mistakenly figured out it must be the sunroof (plus I was intentionally overflooding the sunroof gutter and didn't realize that in this very rare case it is normal for the water to escape around the interior and "leak", i.e. a feature, not a bug). Simply pouring water over the windshield alone--not the roof--made my wrong assumption about the sunroof obvious (duh), but I was so preoccupied with the sunroof due to reading everywhere on the forums about it that I didn't pay attention

. Learn from my mistake!

**DennisG01** · 02-26-2018, 09:04 PM

Well, both boots (front left and right) are securely attached and do NOT leak. But I figured out I was overloading the gutter system - just like you did, Milanese (although I didn't quite understand what you meant till I did it myself!). As long as I poured the water into the gutter so it didn't overlfow where the metal bracket of the sunroof channel enters the corner of the gutter, I was good - no water leaking at all. I did notice that the drain hose - about 6" downstream of the boot, is slightly flattened. Don't know if that is on purpose for headliner clearance, but I'm going to try and get it "un-flattened".

I'll pour some water over the windhsield and see what happens.

**evomel** · 02-27-2018, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by DennisG01

Oh... wanted to throw out a little tip in regards to the LifeCalk. First, it's messy. As in, you won't understand how it gets certain places messy. So go slow and don't overdo it. Second, squirt a little bit into a sandwich baggie and then snip the tip off - you control the "flow" based on the size of the hole and hard you squeeze the "cake decorating bag". Clean the tip of the bag off regularly.

Tks Dennis gonna try it when I get the new boot-hose to install this am I had a beautiful view of full condensation on the inside front window inside

gotta love it lol any moment I'll break -

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Milanese

Just wanted to chime in. In case you are sure you fixed the sunroof drain but still see some wet places in your footwell when in rains/when you pour water, check your windshield glass seal.

I got a leak problem, thought it's the sunroof drain, spent a whole day trying to "fix" it only to find out the drain was fine and the problem was little more down the water path, i.e. the windshield seal.

I was pouring water over the roof and was seeing drips into the footwell so I mistakenly figured out it must be the sunroof (plus I was intentionally overflooding the sunroof gutter and didn't realize that in this very rare case it is normal for the water to escape around the interior and "leak", i.e. a feature, not a bug). Simply pouring water over the windshield alone--not the roof--made my wrong assumption about the sunroof obvious (duh), but I was so preoccupied with the sunroof due to reading everywhere on the forums about it that I didn't pay attention

. Learn from my mistake!

Interesting - I'm actually getting a new from window next week will examine what's going on in that area - maybe have them put extra sealer

**DennisG01** · 02-27-2018, 12:03 PM

"Full condensation"... Hmmm... you know, you might want to think about pulling the rear bench seat (not the backrest) and the two front seats. Then lift the carpet up and get everything good and dry. Attached to the carpet is a medium density foam that soaks up water VERY well. That foam is pretty thick - in some places it seems like a few inches. Under that, there are hard foam pieces (green) that are used to fill in the "wells" to make the floorboards level. Those are pretty big, themselves, and also like to drink water. Depending on how wet things are right now, I can't imagine how long it would take to dry things out if everything stays closed up.

**evomel** · 02-27-2018, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by DennisG01

"Full condensation"... Hmmm... you know, you might want to think about pulling the rear bench seat (not the backrest) and the two front seats. Then lift the carpet up and get everything good and dry. Attached to the carpet is a medium density foam that soaks up water VERY well. That foam is pretty thick - in some places it seems like a few inches. Under that, there are hard foam pieces (green) that are used to fill in the "wells" to make the floorboards level. Those are pretty big, themselves, and also like to drink water. Depending on how wet things are right now, I can't imagine how long it would take to dry things out if everything stays closed up.

my rear bench seat is a real PIA cause its the fold back so its pretty much of a project - I remember cause one of my nuts backed out on my rear coil overs another PIA LOL I'm always riddled with projects on this car - instead of going to the track and enjoying all the good mods

**DennisG01** · 02-27-2018, 02:55 PM

You only need to take the bottom out - that's a 30 second job. Does yours not come out that easily? I thought they all did (the bottom, anyways)?

**evomel** · 02-27-2018, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by DennisG01

You only need to take the bottom out - that's a 30 second job. Does yours not come out that easily? I thought they all did (the bottom, anyways)?

Oh the bottom !! Yes yes your right this car has me so off the mark I'm bmw shock on everything lol so remove that back seat huh -- my wife texted me today telling me she didn't know I had a BMW aquarium lol

**evomel** · 02-27-2018, 06:02 PM

I'm done - I'm pissed - and I'm finished - why BMW would put these precious boxes here !! Look at this

**evomel** · 02-27-2018, 06:11 PM

Yes the worst car to have ever been designed and engineered - god help BMW that I'm no lawyer!!! They focus on getting you to admire the driving but in fact the car will fall to pcs on you- I could store fish down there ! Rear lights are filled with water rear center light filled with water this is a sunk boat !!! Worst car I've ever had the un pleasure of owning !!!

**DennisG01** · 02-27-2018, 07:05 PM

But you can rebuild it. You have the technology. You can make it better than it was. Better, stronger, faster.

I'm not sure how old you are so that may not make any sense to you...

To dry the foam out I folded the carpet up towards the center of the car and then tied it in place so it would drain and get air circulation at the same time. It took a couple of days - and I even had a small heater on it to help.

You know... there's a couple floor drains that can be popped out. I seriously considered doing that (but opted not to) and leaving them out since they're not open to the ground (not directly, anyways). The plastic, undercar aerodynamic panels are there. So it's not like you'd get rain or anything splashing up in there. It would keep "extra" water from collecting, but the carpet and foam could still get saturated. Or... get rid of the foam and build a honeycomb platform out of plastic or fiberglass (think... plastic milk crate, for example).

**evomel** · 02-27-2018, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by DennisG01

But you can rebuild it. You have the technology. You can make it better than it was. Better, stronger, faster.

I'm not sure how old you are so that may not make any sense to you...

To dry the foam out I folded the carpet up towards the center of the car and then tied it in place so it would drain and get air circulation at the same time. It took a couple of days - and I even had a small heater on it to help.

You know... there's a couple floor drains that can be popped out. I seriously considered doing that (but opted not to) and leaving them out since they're not open to the ground (not directly, anyways). The plastic, undercar aerodynamic panels are there. So it's not like you'd get rain or anything splashing up in there. It would keep "extra" water from collecting, but the carpet and foam could still get saturated. Or... get rid of the foam and build a honeycomb platform out of plastic or fiberglass (think... plastic milk crate, for example).

My son suggested he drill drill a few holes to allow all the water out not sure if there are already drains? But now that you mention it I will have to see where they are - now I have to see how bad the rears are

- - - Updated - - -

Right now a whole bunch of electronic problems from doors not opening seats not working lights not working

**philly98540** · 02-27-2018, 07:42 PM

Ooof. You got bad luck Mel. Dry that up and see what your electronics do.

**DennisG01** · 02-27-2018, 07:49 PM

The drains are roughly 2" in diamter - they are only "friction fit" so they can be popped right out with a scewdriver. You could probably pop them out from underneath with a finger if the plastic belly pan wasn't there. To get the water out, though, I just used a small hand pump for the majority and then kept using/ringing out a small towel.