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Thread: Sell e46 with 100k miles for a 206K 98 M3? Worth it for $5500?

  1. #1
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    Sell e46 with 100k miles for a 206K 98 M3? Worth it for $5500?

    Hello everyone! I've been a poster on e46fanatics but haven't had much help there with my question.

    I'm looking at a '98 M3 Sedan MT with 206,000 miles on it for $5500. It's been meticulously maintained, the owner says, but i haven't had time to go over there and look at his maintenance records. The car does look clean inside and out. I'm currently driving an 04 325i 5 speed with 102k miles on it. It's got a bmw performance intake/dinan exhaust on it. cooling and vanos done, overall it's a sweet looking little car. It's red and got the M tech package wheels on it. Not fast but fun to drive and sounds really good.

    I've always wanted an M3 sedan because i love the practicality of hauling people and gear, and of course the early heritage of these cars. If the Merc C43/C36 AMG's came in manual transmissions i would have bought one a long time ago.

    I plan to take the 325i to over 200k miles, similar to what I've done to my last car, a w202 c230K that now has 206k miles on it and still running decent.

    Would an e36 M3 with 200k high miles but maintained well be a very troublesome car to own right off the bat? Can these make it to 300k miles with about 1000-2000$ budgeted for repairs every year? I want to sell the 325i for it and pretty much make it an even trade, but seeing that I drive alot for work, I'd rather have both and drive the M3 sedan on the weekends or trips.

    Is $5,500 realistic? I'd love to have both, but to do that I'd have to haggle it down to $3500. Would that be lowballing the guy?

    Thank you in advance for everyone's response!

  2. #2
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    Seems like a fair price if the car is indeed in good mechanical and cosmetic shape.

    As for repair budgets, I spend more than average because I track my car and am constantly upgrading things, but an average of $1000/year plus oil changes seems like a reasonable expectation if you're paying a shop to do your work. If you take care of the car and keep up on standard maintenance/wear items, they don't tend to have mechanical failures. Over the last 10 years of my now-148K mile coupe, I've only had the following failures of note:


    • Climate control head unit died, was replaced
    • One ignition coil died, was replaced
    • AC has a very slow leak (haven't bothered fixing it yet)
    • Replaced leaky valve cover gasket
    • Differential damaged due to ring gear bolt backing out and bouncing around, replaced
    • Replaced fan control unit for climate control
    • Replaced brake light switch under brake pedal
    • RTAB's replaced
    • Original HK speakers are wearing out, going to be replaced with Bavsound kit


    Plus the usual periodic maintenance items like air filters, fuel filter, spark plugs, etc... The diff was really the only major failure, but even then I could've sourced a used diff for a few hundred bucks if I wanted to, and it's not too bad to swap yourself (or you could pay a shop like $600-800). All the other stuff has been relatively cheap and easy.

    I've chosen to do a ton of preventative work on mine to harden it for track use, like upgrading the suspension and whatnot, but that's not strictly necessary for a street car unless you have bushings or ball joints that have actually failed as opposed to just being a bit worn and soft like mine.

    Long story short, it's not the horror story some people make it out to be if you have a well-maintained car.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 02-06-2018 at 03:12 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  3. #3
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    Guy emailed me back about the maintenance. It is pretty extensive bushings, vanos, cooling, clutch, nearly all driveshaft stuff) most likely cause they can be done by the owner. I noticed that nothing has been done to the engine (most likely because they're big ticket items) nothing on the engine has been done besides oil changes.

    Top end rebuild and headgaskets are something that I'm worrying about. I feel like $3200-3500 is a much more reasonable price.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and thank you for your opinion Tostito

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audley View Post
    Guy emailed me back about the maintenance. It is pretty extensive bushings, vanos, cooling, clutch, nearly all driveshaft stuff) most likely cause they can be done by the owner. I noticed that nothing has been done to the engine (most likely because they're big ticket items) nothing on the engine has been done besides oil changes.

    Top end rebuild and headgaskets are something that I'm worrying about. I feel like $3200-3500 is a much more reasonable price.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and thank you for your opinion Tostito
    Nothing has been done to my engine at all besides oil changes, and my car is tracked. I'm about to take the oil pan off for the first time to upgrade the oil pump and a couple other things, but there's no need to take the head off or anything like that unless there's actually a verifiable issue there. If you're concerned, get a compression/leakdown test on it before you buy it (or make the owner get one). If it needs an engine rebuild there's no point in buying it unless it's basically free or you'll be doing the work yourself.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  5. #5
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    The E46 325i with 100k is the more budget friendly driver. If you are not worried about the maintenance and repair costs of the older E36 M3 with double the mileage, buy it. I would have zero interest in driving an E46 325i.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    The E46 325i with 100k is the more budget friendly driver. If you are not worried about the maintenance and repair costs of the older E36 M3 with double the mileage, buy it. I would have zero interest in driving an E46 325i.
    haha harsh. The 325i is fun to drive, but yeah it's no m3. Honestly alot of issues have been addressed on the car, things that haven't even been addressed on my own 325i. So i'd probably save money on short term repairs driving the M3 if I switched cars.

    the main thing is the engine. I would like to spend $2k on doing some preventatives on the engine. lifters, headgasket, valves etc. Hopefully there will be room for negotiation on that front. in the end high miles is high miles.

  7. #7
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    You want to take off the head as preventive maintenance with no symptoms? Seems pretty unnecessary on an e36m. I'd save the cash and ensure the known weak points are addressed first (or verify they've been addressed recently). Your $3500 on a running, non beat to hell e36m would be a steal.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    buy e36 ///M3, i'm about to turn 252k on my 97, its my favorite car to drive.
    Last edited by WaldoM3; 02-07-2018 at 08:24 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audley View Post
    Top end rebuild and headgaskets are something that I'm worrying about. I feel like $3200-3500 is a much more reasonable price.
    No way buddy if it runs and isn't shooting smoke out of the exhaust a manual sedan is $5K all day. Why on earth would you try to buy it for $3500 and then dump $2K into an engine for no reason? I would consider upping your budget for a lower mileage car if engine longevity is a consideration for you.

  10. #10
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    I am at 224K after 4.5 years of ownership (bought it at 150k). In that time I've spent $9k in preventative maintenance (parts only, I do my own labor), and I haven't touched the Vanos or any motor internals. Those are all still original. I've also spent some money on upgrades, but those are irrelevant here. I daily the car, and take it every year on some 1500 mile + road trips without any worries. To be fair, the car did spend its first 150k miles as an auto so I'm sure the motor lived an easier life. But if you have good records going into ownership, and you stay on top of preventative maintenance you should have a very reliable car.

    I actually need to replace the clutch, so I am planning on pulling the whole motor and doing a very mild head and block refresh. I like to tackle things while I am in there, and am thinking about supercharging. But as it sits, I don't see any major signs of head gasket or any internals failure. I would trust the motor for at least another 50k as it sits.

    Having said that, knowing how much money I have into my car and the mechanical condition it is in, I wouldn't sell it for under $10k. Which is most likely why it will be with me for a while. If the one you are looking at is in fact very well maintained, to me $5k is a bargain.

  11. #11
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    Another vote in agreement with others. These engines go forever if maintained: 300K should not be difficult. Absolutely no reason to crack the engine if not indicated otherwise. The asking price is totally fair and your hopes for a bargain are not supported by the transactions I'm aware of.
    Current:
    98 M3/4/5 Alpine/Magma
    05 MazdaSpeed Miata

    Sold:

    00 Honda VFR
    99 528iT M/T
    98 M3/4/5 Arctic/Dove
    94 R-package Miata
    89 Honda NT650

    87 325is turned SpecE30

  12. #12
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    ah ok, good to hear. I'm still going to try for $4000 then. just for random things in the future, cats haven't replaced, steering rack, shocks (were replaced at 100k, but haven't been since).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audley View Post
    ah ok, good to hear. I'm still going to try for $4000 then. just for random things in the future, cats haven't replaced, steering rack, shocks (were replaced at 100k, but haven't been since).
    How did this go? I'd be surprised if you got any kind of deal, but definitely curious to know how it went (you never know when personal situations might force a short sale).

    Just as a note, like the car you're looking at, I'm on my original cats, just upgraded my steering rack to an E46 ZHP rack and sold it almost for what the ZHP rack cost (it was still good), and have around 100k on my Bilsteins (which yeah, are probably a bit long in the tooth, but are still doing a good job).

    I'm in a similar situation as bimma360.

    I bought my car with 120k on it about 8.5 years ago, currently at 225k. My uncle had everything done at the dealer as issues arose, but they were predictably not doing the proactive things like refreshing the suspension / bushings, radiator, etc.

    I've done nearly everything myself.

    I've kept meticulous track of everything I've done, and I've spent $12k in parts over that time (between $2k-3k were pure upgrades). I've estimated how much I'd have had to pay a shop for every item I've done, and I estimate that if I'd done it at an indy repair shop I'd have spent about double that overall ($23,500). (I'm not really that anal, I've just had the car nearly totaled twice and have gone back and documented everything I've done to the car to fight with the insurance company.)

    Like bimma360, I wouldn't sell my car for less than $10k - not that anyone would ever pay that for it. But it runs perfectly, and it would cost me at least what I've spent to get something else into that kind of shape.

    Also, I believe there's a kind of "valley of death" that happens between around 130k and 180k. Wear items will wear. Items that aren't normal wear items (lock actuators, tumblers, seat leather, etc) will fail during that period. If you have a relatively nice car on the far side of that 180k mark, the owner has addressed many of the major and minor issues that plague these cars (cooling system, suspension bushings, HVAC porcupine, HVAC blower motor, etc). In some ways a well-maintained car at 200k miles will be more reliable - it will already have repairs a car at 160k is ripe for.

    Finally, leave the engine.

    If it's at 206k and happy, you'd be a fool to "preventatively" replace the head gasket. Rod bearings? Yeah, maybe. But not the head gasket. If you're worried about it, start studying, buy the parts, and you can do it in a long weekend.

    Get an oil sample from Blackstone if you're worried about the rod bearings. If the sample comes back clean, you're good. If not, it'll tell you if you have a coolant leak and need a new head gasket, need new bearings, a ring job, etc.

    But I'll echo what others have said - you'd be a fool to do it blind.

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  14. #14
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    I'm dropping my oil pan this weekend and decided not to touch the rod bearings on my perfectly fine 148K mile engine. I figure they're probably fine, and it's just not worth the expense and risk to mess with them. I'm doing the oil system though (pump, pickup, baffles).

    As for other high mileage "wear items", yeah I've seen basically all those things. My driver's side door lock actuator needs replacing, I need a new key because one side of it is worn to the point where it won't turn in the door locks, and my driver's seat leather has definitely seen better days (I managed to glue the tear in the bolster). I'll probably replace the covers on the front seats at some point in the future. Recently did the FCU (porcupine), and still haven't gotten around to replacing the vent window seals which are toast.

    Good news is, after I install my giant pile of bushings, mounts, and ball joints this weekend there really won't be much else to do on my car aside from engine/power upgrades.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  15. #15
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    It’s not much risk or expense or time to do rod bearings once the pan is off, but the M50/52 and S50/52 don’t seem to wear much so not doing them is not much risk either. In contrast, S54/65/85 rod bearings probably should be changed as preventative maintenance. I changed them on my 08 M3 and they had a lot of wear for 60k miles.
    D

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    It’s not much risk or expense or time to do rod bearings once the pan is off, but the M50/52 and S50/52 don’t seem to wear much so not doing them is not much risk either. In contrast, S54/65/85 rod bearings probably should be changed as preventative maintenance. I changed them on my 08 M3 and they had a lot of wear for 60k miles.
    D
    And this is why you're unlikely to get a "deal" on a high-mileage, well-maintained E36 M3 and why the S52 has a reputation for being a tank (especially compared to the S54 and S65).

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    It’s not much risk or expense or time to do rod bearings once the pan is off, but the M50/52 and S50/52 don’t seem to wear much so not doing them is not much risk either. In contrast, S54/65/85 rod bearings probably should be changed as preventative maintenance. I changed them on my 08 M3 and they had a lot of wear for 60k miles.
    D
    Well it's mainly because I wouldn't be comfortable doing them myself and checking clearances and all that, which means that my car would need to be in a shop for the entire oil pan adventure, which isn't cheap. In that context I didn't think it was worth paying for all the associated labor for something that probably isn't even needed. But yeah, the bearings themselves are cheap.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  18. #18
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    I would not let that stop you — you can DIY it if you can do the other work you are doing. A few first timers have DIYed E9xM3 rod bearings and SYT_Shadow posted a good DIY guide for that car.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    I would not let that stop you — you can DIY it if you can do the other work you are doing. A few first timers have DIYed E9xM3 rod bearings and SYT_Shadow posted a good DIY guide for that car.
    The other reason I'm not doing it in addition to being paranoid about breaking my engine trying to do this, is because it's recommended to break in new rod bearings for 1200 miles of gentle driving. Given how much I drive my car, this would probably prevent me from going to the track this year, at least for the first half of the summer.

    Also, you need to replace all the one-time-use hardware for the rod caps which adds another $150+ to the cost of the bearings by themselves, making it closer to $300 in parts.

    I have confidence in my wrenching abilities when it comes to stuff I can see and fix relatively easily if/when I screw it up (brakes, bushings, suspension, etc...). Destroying an engine or having to take the oil pan off again isn't exactly an easy fix. The oil pump I'm replacing is a more straightforward bolt-on; it just has to be primed and filled with oil first. Hard to screw that up; if it's connected like it was before and the chain is on the sprocket it's good.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


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