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Thread: Vibration persist after replacing engine and transmission mounts

  1. #101
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    The solution I came up with was removing all the timing tools and turn the crankshaft manually together with the camshafts until the chain got in place. The problem with that the one camshaft where the chain was not properly on wasnt turning (probably because the chain was in an angle), so I tried to turn that camshaft continuously approx the same degree with a wrench. Now the chain is nicely on but the question is if I bent any valves in the process...oh boy!
    Last edited by georgebest; 03-16-2018 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #102
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    Finally I had all the parts and put it back together!

    Engine runs beautifully, sounds great and everything...but...and this is a quite big but... smoke coming around bank 1 valve cover area. Engine temperature looks normal from gauge, but I rather shut it off. Can't check error codes right now cause my 20 pin connector broke and some other issues as well.

    Any of you run into smoke after timing chain/guide replacement? Maybe some residual oil somewhere?

    Thanks a lot!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    Finally I had all the parts and put it back together!

    Engine runs beautifully, sounds great and everything...but...and this is a quite big but... smoke coming around bank 1 valve cover area. Engine temperature looks normal from gauge, but I rather shut it off. Can't check error codes right now cause my 20 pin connector broke and some other issues as well.

    Any of you run into smoke after timing chain/guide replacement? Maybe some residual oil somewhere?

    Thanks a lot!
    It's likely just the back of the valve cover leaking, strange cause I was extra careful. Used new gasket, put sealant etc. But it's a difficult area with the half circle part for sure.
    Well, if that's the only issue I will get after such a big job I'd be very happy!

  4. #104
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    There is often some oil that runs down the back when doing that job. It should burn off, if not - reseat the valve cover.

    Check your PS pump and be sure all the bolts are in place, that's a common cause of vibration. There should be 3 bolts, I think.
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  5. #105
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    Congrats on finishing the job George!
    I too read your initial posts, and was thinking uh oh this sounds just like my '01's sound that started a couple weeks before you started the thread, and turned out to be guides.....
    You got a jump start on me, I'm just about to start ordering parts now for the job.
    Question for you - did you do the VANOS job as a "while I'm in there" thing? Mine tapped a little, but I wasn't planning on doing anything with them.
    Still contemplating the valley pan gasket though. Have had a very slow leak from it for the last couple years, but only needed a cup or two of coolant ever month or two so haven't been motivated to fix it.
    My car had 140k when the guide broke BTW. Sorry if I missed it, but how many miles on yours?
    Did you do the water pump as well?
    Anything you'd do differently now that you've been through it?
    again, congrats!!
    cheers
    Kurt
    TX
    Last edited by Nurburgringer; 03-19-2018 at 07:49 AM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurburgringer View Post
    Congrats on finishing the job George!
    I too read your initial posts, and was thinking uh oh this sounds just like my '01's sound that started a couple weeks before you started the thread, and turned out to be guides.....
    You got a jump start on me, I'm just about to start ordering parts now for the job.
    Question for you - did you do the VANOS job as a "while I'm in there" thing? Mine tapped a little, but I wasn't planning on doing anything with them.
    Still contemplating the valley pan gasket though. Have had a very slow leak from it for the last couple years, but only needed a cup or two of coolant ever month or two so haven't been motivated to fix it.
    My car had 140k when the guide broke BTW. Sorry if I missed it, but how many miles on yours?
    Did you do the water pump as well?
    Anything you'd do differently now that you've been through it?
    again, congrats!!
    cheers
    Kurt
    TX
    I'm planning to put together a post about the stuff I wish I knew before I started. If you read this thread you will get most of the ideas, as a short version of it:
    - ECS kit is really good, they thought of almost everything
    - crankshaft bolt a.k.a "Jesus bolt": as more experienced members called my attention to it, dont do it the way all DIYs telling you to do it. Use a proper crankshaft holder, it will be still difficult. You also need 3/4 socket and 4 feet breaker bar (not exaggerating)
    - VANOS: I would do it again. But keep in mind that the cheap Beisan method might or might not work. Only worked on one of my unit and hold off the project for two weeks on the other one. Dr. Vanos and Ebay sellers could be a good alternative. I'd try Beisan but wouldnt wast too much time on it if not working. You need a serious vise to do the pressing but can use the same tools as for the crankshaft bolt.
    - Water pump: mine is probably ok, so put it back. It has a crack on it what might caused leaks but tried to fix it now with sealant, will see if working. Easy and cheap to replace it though.
    - I have replaced the oil pump chain, not included in the ECS kit but for $11 it was a no brainer
    - Main (large) chain: I still couldnt get to wrap my head around this. There was no way to put it on the easy way and I'm sure what I came up with as a solution wasn't proper (see my posts before). The new chain was incredibly tight (IWIS, part of the ECS kit). Maybe just bad luck getting a really tight one? Maybe should have been heated up? Am I missing a tool here? I have no idea, but now it's on and looking good.
    - Retightening the crankshaft bolt: I couldnt go up to the spec (100Nm + 150 degrees), could only go up to 100 degrees, hope it wont cause any issues later. My super strong, 3/4 breaker bar was bending at 100 degrees. Btw my torque wrench goes up to 407Nm and it was over that at around 10 degrees, insanity! Probably I torqued it around 700Nm but factory spec could be close a 1000Nm. No wonder it was so hard to get it off. What is this with this bolt?? Is it holding the whole engine together or what?

    I have spent approx 50 hours doing the job so far, mostly because of not being experienced in it. Others can do it 15-20 hours. I still don't know if it was a success, by the sound of the engine it was. Needs to figure out what causing the smoke, is it residual oil from the work or new one. Also the SES light came on after the third start, but not yet sure why.

    So I'm not done with it yet, still hoping I didnt mess up anything too major Engine sounds great though and no more vibration so that's a progress for sure.
    Last edited by georgebest; 03-19-2018 at 09:40 AM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by 740ilDuke View Post
    There is often some oil that runs down the back when doing that job. It should burn off, if not - reseat the valve cover.

    Check your PS pump and be sure all the bolts are in place, that's a common cause of vibration. There should be 3 bolts, I think.
    Thanks, I will check if more oil gets there, from the look of it it is seated properly. Vibration was caused by timing issues and loose chain, that is solved now.

  8. #108
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    It seems that the smoke is gone, had to be some residual oil in bank 1. Took 15 minutes to disappear.

    Bigger issue is that I have some strange cooling problem. Engine temperature gauge looks fine but steam and water is coming out from expansion tank and the pipes around it. Water pump and/or thermostat? My thermostat is only 6 months old, and the pump was spinning nicely when it was out, though that is approx 5 years old. On the top of it I cant connect with my laptop, getting IKE & DME not found message. To summarize, this where I am after TCG replacement:
    The Good:
    - smoothly running engine
    - no smoke
    - no more vibration
    - no oil leak anywhere

    The Bad:
    - SES light is back on
    - steam coming out from expansion tank, with water all over the place around tank
    - cant connect with BMW Scanner in either port (20 pin or ODB2), getting IKE & DME not found message, it cant read any modules either
    - got a random transmission failsafe error as well when coolant was boiling, probably related

    How on earth is it possible that engine temperature gauge shows normal when you have steam coming out in the front? Weird.

    Feels like this is still a lot of work to do! If only I could connect with my laptop, would be probably too easy

  9. #109
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    I think you have to bleed more.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclops2 View Post
    I think you have to bleed more.
    Hmm, could be that simple? If it was just air trapped in the system, would a lot of water come out from the expansion tank as well? I did the factory procedure, car front lifted, AC running but not the engine, filled it up. Warmed up engine and added more next morning when cold.

    This looks more serious, but never had air in my system before so no idea what could that cause.

  11. #111
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    One problem at a time...I could finally login with INPA via the ODBII!
    BMW Scanner still not working, but who needs it when you have INPA, right?
    Slowly, but surely
    Will do TIMM's bleeding method tomorrow when the car is cold, it's similar but different than the one in TIS.

    I probably filled it up too fast, that could have caused air trapped.
    Last edited by georgebest; 03-19-2018 at 08:48 PM.

  12. #112
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    2nd round on coolant, using TIMM's method and filling it extra slowly (TIS told me that):
    Huge difference, only tried on idle but engine temperature was fine. Went up to 107 and then dropped back to 100. Very little steam coming out after I shut of the
    engine. Will wait until it cools tomorrow, refill if needed and test it on higher RPMs, maybe even driving it a bit if not too much snow.
    I think filling it up slowly made a big difference. Oh, and of course the head of the bleeder screw broke but I bought a metal one, hope that seals it well too.

    Thanks for Cyclops the advise, I thought it was something more serious.

  13. #113
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    Well done for getting this far! Probably best to just check that the expansion tank has not split - steam should only ever come out from under the cap if the system is over-filled. But, with the engine temperature being spot-on I doubt if you have any serious problems to worry about!
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  14. #114
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    Another issue with the expansion tank is the sensor at the bottom of the tank. The o-ring will sometimes shrink over time, causing a leak or you replaced the tank and re-used the sensor. That too has been known to cause a leak. When I did my guides, I replaced the tank but reused the sensor. Thus I ended up with enough of a leak that it ended up damaging the new tank too. Replaced both as a unit and no leak since.
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    Well done for getting this far! Probably best to just check that the expansion tank has not split - steam should only ever come out from under the cap if the system is over-filled. But, with the engine temperature being spot-on I doubt if you have any serious problems to worry about!
    The steam was coming from under the cap, so probably ok (brand new expansion tank, hope it can take a bit more abuse). I couldnt bleed it at higher temp because of the bleeding screw head not turning anymore, will replace it today with a metal one and do it again. Basically I was loosening it at 10C incrementals to let the air out until I could.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 740iSport303 View Post
    Another issue with the expansion tank is the sensor at the bottom of the tank. The o-ring will sometimes shrink over time, causing a leak or you replaced the tank and re-used the sensor. That too has been known to cause a leak. When I did my guides, I replaced the tank but reused the sensor. Thus I ended up with enough of a leak that it ended up damaging the new tank too. Replaced both as a unit and no leak since.
    I bought this one for $41 included a new sensor as well, at least I think so, dont remember putting it in from the old one. Anyway, I still have the old one, can check. Thanks for the idea!

  16. #116
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    Success!
    It is now "underheating" lol. Goes up to 97, thermostat switching on and drops back to 92. No steam or leak anywhere It's cold outside and I didnt rev it up too much, also in the middle of a snow storm so cant really drive it outside.
    Next up actually driving it, I almost forgot it suppose to do that too! Checking if any new issue comes up under load. I still have the "21, Function, inlet camshaft control Bank 1" what I had before I did the TCG. My guess is that I didnt time Bank 1 properly, but want to use it a bit to see if any other issues before removing the valve cover.

  17. #117
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    Has anybody figured what this O-ring does? I didnt have it in the engine and also wasnt part of the ECS kit I used. I wonder if it's important:

    o ring.jpg

    Not really sure on part number either, perhaps 11141736758 (#3)?

    I also dont have this plug and unable to locate it on RealOEM, anybody can figure the part number?

    inspection hole.jpg

    Thanks!
    Last edited by georgebest; 03-21-2018 at 01:28 PM.

  18. #118
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    That o-ring is for the oil supply to the timing chain tensioner. It should be replaced when you reinstall the upper timing chain cover. Part number you reference above (see engine, upper timing case on realoem, item #3)
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkitect View Post
    That o-ring is for the oil supply to the timing chain tensioner. It should be replaced when you reinstall the upper timing chain cover. Part number you reference above (see engine, upper timing case on realoem, item #3)
    Thanks, so we have the proper part...but there is no oil pipe behind it as far as I can tell. Additionally, the chain tensioner is a moving part depending on how much slack the chain has, nothing can really connect to it. I'm not questioning BMW's logic, just trying to understand what this o-ring really does. Looks like it is put on a hole going nowhere.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    Thanks, so we have the proper part...but there is no oil pipe behind it as far as I can tell. Additionally, the chain tensioner is a moving part depending on how much slack the chain has, nothing can really connect to it. I'm not questioning BMW's logic, just trying to understand what this o-ring really does. Looks like it is put on a hole going nowhere.
    I just so happen to have an engine with all of that stuff opened up right now. When I get home tonight I will take a look and see if I can figure out the logic. I am sure they must have had some when they designed this thing, but sometimes I wonder! For now I believe it supplies oil from the engine's internal oil galleries, through the UTC, into the tensioner.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkitect View Post
    I just so happen to have an engine with all of that stuff opened up right now. When I get home tonight I will take a look and see if I can figure out the logic. I am sure they must have had some when they designed this thing, but sometimes I wonder! For now I believe it supplies oil from the engine's internal oil galleries, through the UTC, into the tensioner.
    I looked into it the hole with a flashlight and it appeared to be closed. Curious what you will see in yours.

  22. #122
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    It is critical that o-ring has a good seal. That seals the passage to the timing chain tensioner, which fills with pressurized oil and pressurizes the tensioner. If, for example, you didn't replace it and the crushed up o-ring isn't sealing to the upper timing cover, your tensioner may not be pressurizing enough, causing slack in the chain and the same error code you had before when the guides were broken and the tensioner couldn't take up the slack.

    I've also had numerous problems with thermostats before that once the system is opened, they don't act right. Either sticky open or sticky closed. Both BMWs and my Mustang have had that problem. Either way, it's running a little cooler, so I'd leave it for now, but keep and eye on the temps and make sure it doesn't start sticking closed.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    It is critical that o-ring has a good seal. That seals the passage to the timing chain tensioner, which fills with pressurized oil and pressurizes the tensioner. If, for example, you didn't replace it and the crushed up o-ring isn't sealing to the upper timing cover, your tensioner may not be pressurizing enough, causing slack in the chain and the same error code you had before when the guides were broken and the tensioner couldn't take up the slack.
    I'm not sure if it is sealing to the upper timing cover, it is behind the long chain tensioner, nothing really goes there as far as I can tell. The long tensioner is pressurized by the "screw in" tensioner. I will make some closer picture of it when removing the upper timing cover again. Anyway, it costs less than $2, I will definitely put one in (there was none when I opened it up).

  24. #124
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    Racer is right on the money. I was tiptoeing lol.

    It seals this oil passage to the head. If you don’t have one in there better start tearing down.

    This is where it sits relative to the UTC. It will fit into the dado on the head.



    Blurry but you can see the passage into the chamber with the tensioner.

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  25. #125
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    Good teamwork - that is probably the reason for the bank 1 error code!
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