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Thread: Vibration persist after replacing engine and transmission mounts

  1. #26
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    When you unplug the MAF, the car defaults to a standard air/fuel mix. That may be the change you see. I wonder if you are getting oil in the intake from the PCV cover that is affecting bank 1 more than 2.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    When you unplug the MAF, the car defaults to a standard air/fuel mix. That may be the change you see. I wonder if you are getting oil in the intake from the PCV cover that is affecting bank 1 more than 2.
    I've noticed a small amount of oil at spark plugs in bank 1. Is PCV the same as CCV? Cause I'm replacing the CCV in a few days anyway.
    In summary, I think I have three problems:
    - bad cats; replacing it soon
    - some hard to find leak: doing the whole intake manifold/ valley pan/ CCV replacement with new gaskets etc, just waiting for parts and a bit better weather
    - some weird VANOS timing issue, I have no idea about that. But fixing the first two first and see what error message remains.

    Will report back when done with cats and intake manifold. Thanks for all the great ideas!

  3. #28
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    Back with an update, replaced the followings:

    - intake manifold gaskets
    - CCV (or whatever called, the oil separator on the back of manifold)
    - valley pan
    - almost all vacuum hoses
    - all 4 knock sensors
    - 2 camshaft position sensors
    - new vanos solanoid in bank 1
    - replaced both cats
    - switched sides with ignition coils

    The whole valley pan etc job was actually a fun project. Not too difficult but still difficult enough to feel like a major accomplishment (some pictures below).
    The old cats looked fine to me, but the new ones were quite cheap from MagnaFlow so not a big loss replacing them.

    Anyway, after all this work and new parts......exactly the same error message and SES light as before:

    Function inlet camshaft control bank 1

    AAAHHHH )

    I run out of ideas, please let me know if you got any. Engine still runs rough at idle, but sounds smooth on higher RPMs. At least no more white smoke, that was probably the CCV. Also havent got any "adaptive mixture" error yet, though I havent used it much could come back later.


    Bonus job photos: https://imgur.com/a/xDKEk
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #29
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    I guess the question is if camshaft timing can go off without touching timing chains or any Vanos part? Cause no such work was done on the engine.
    Can you just fix it with removing only one valve cover? Bentley explaining it always in pairs. Rather not touch Bank 2 if not necessary.

  5. #30
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    ...and when I thought I was making progress... today after coming back from a longer trip where the car performed quite well (except SES light), I wanted to check what error codes I got. When turning on ignition, first transmission fail safe, then engine fail safe message came on. To make it even worse: INPA/BMW Scanner can't connect to any modules, neither from round nor the cabin ODB connector, they give communication errors. Also, car won't crank at all, but battery seems to be fine (lights dont go dim when cranking, lost my multimeter, but getting a new one soon to check actual voltage). Anyway, one month old battery, doubt that's the culprit.
    Any ideas?
    It seems that I solve one problem and then getting another two
    On the flip side, car got me home and was kind enough to break down in the garage, should get some credit for it!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    ...and when I thought I was making progress... today after coming back from a longer trip where the car performed quite well (except SES light), I wanted to check what error codes I got. When turning on ignition, first transmission fail safe, then engine fail safe message came on. To make it even worse: INPA/BMW Scanner can't connect to any modules, neither from round nor the cabin ODB connector, they give communication errors. Also, car won't crank at all, but battery seems to be fine (lights dont go dim when cranking, lost my multimeter, but getting a new one soon to check actual voltage). Anyway, one month old battery, doubt that's the culprit.
    Any ideas?
    It seems that I solve one problem and then getting another two
    On the flip side, car got me home and was kind enough to break down in the garage, should get some credit for it!
    Solved. Just in case anybody gets both failsafes & no communications with modules & no cranking in the future: one of the 30amp fuses in the E-box was blown, you have 5 in a white box, need to open it to check. I'm not sure what caused it yet, but at least car is starting and no more failsafe. Baby steps!

  7. #32
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    Do you guys think I need new guides, LOL!

    DSC06733.jpg

    Found multiple pieces of plastic chain guides in the engine. I think I caught it quite early on, most of them looks okay. This explains the knock sensor and timing errors, pieces of plastic flying around in the engine probably not optimal.
    Never done it before, ordering parts. How long could this job take? I guess a weekend is not enough for it, especially if doing it first time. What is best DIY for it? There seems to be a few out there.
    Will be also doing VANOS-Beisan procedure while there.

  8. #33
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    If you've never done it...one long ass day or two 8-10 hr days. I've done it 3 times now, to me the toughest part - which is the easiest labor wise - is timing the engine. I say that because last time, I had to pull the VC & UTCC off to re-time one side of the engine due to a fault code.

    Go ahead a source the kit with the BMW Special Tools to do the job. I think* AutoZone or the like will have them. I borrowed them from a friend who is no longer in the E38 game.

    Take some cardboard and make a rough drawing of the front of the engine (lower timing cover and upper timing covers) this will help you when re-installing the bolts which are different lengths. Nothing fancy, just a rough outline. Do the same for the alt and waterpump - i think some of those are different lengths. Unless you have an earlier model that is air cooled. Otherwise, get ready for a oil and coolant mess. Be careful with the aluminum vent tube that runs bank to bank - the tabs are known to break off. $125 tube unless you have an aluminium welder nearby.

    Good luck and be patient with it.

    Full instructions here:

    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/876903
    Last edited by 740ilDuke; 02-19-2018 at 10:24 PM.
    2001 | DINAN 7 Sport | S62 Swapped 6-Speed
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 740ilDuke View Post
    If you've never done it...one long ass day or two 8-10 hr days. I've done it 3 times now, to me the toughest part - which is the easiest labor wise - is timing the engine. I say that because last time, I had to pull the VC & UTCC off to re-time one side of the engine due to a fault code.

    Go ahead a source the kit with the BMW Special Tools to do the job. I think* AutoZone or the like will have them. I borrowed them from a friend who is no longer in the E38 game.

    Take some cardboard and make a rough drawing of the front of the engine (lower timing cover and upper timing covers) this will help you when re-installing the bolts which are different lengths. Nothing fancy, just a rough outline. Do the same for the alt and waterpump - i think some of those are different lengths. Unless you have an earlier model that is air cooled. Otherwise, get ready for a oil and coolant mess. Be careful with the aluminum vent tube that runs bank to bank - the tabs are known to break off. $125 tube unless you have an aluminium welder nearby.

    Good luck and be patient with it.

    Full instructions here:

    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/876903
    Thanks. Ordered the tools and the Timing Chain Kit from ECS. Thinking to order new bolts for the Vanos unit to make sure they stay in place. Anything else to replace while there? Maybe oil pump chain?

  10. #35
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    You can simply adjust the tension on the oil pump chain. As far as timing goes it all depends on how much you do and how much you take your time. Took me a LONG time but I spent hours and hours just cleaning parts. It was pretty messy in front of the engine.

    Rebuild vanos while you're in there.
    2000 740i Sport | 2004 330xi | 1988 325i Vert | 2003 Z4 2.5 | 1995 Ford F150 | 2018 GTI

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkitect View Post
    You can simply adjust the tension on the oil pump chain. As far as timing goes it all depends on how much you do and how much you take your time. Took me a LONG time but I spent hours and hours just cleaning parts. It was pretty messy in front of the engine.

    Rebuild vanos while you're in there.
    My oil pump chain was running really loose for a long time, I rather replace it, it’s only $11 (IWIS).
    Cleaning is always the most time consuming for me too, spent more time on cleaning than actually doing the job when fixing the intake manifold/valley pan. Trying to find a local parts cleaner this time, could save me hours.

    Any o-rings or pistons to replace on the oil pump?
    Last edited by georgebest; 02-20-2018 at 08:06 AM.

  12. #37
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    I read your response above after the repair and you still had the bank 1 error. I was thinking, "uh oh that may be a guides problem." Scroll down and yup.

    Yes, replace ALL of the chains. I can't emphasize that enough. Replace ALL OF THE CHAINS. The main, two cam chains, and oil pump chain. They are so cheap relatively speaking. And they all stretch. Read below.

    Now, I did this on my non-vanos motor, and I'm not sure how much is different on the vanos motor. But the camshaft sprockets were held on with a bunch of bolts on my car. When I replaced the chains, had the cams timed according to the tools, and got the chains on the teeth so that all sections were equally tensioned with the tensioner tool, the cam bolts ALL lined up perfectly to the original position they were before I took anything apart (I could tell because the rest of the sprocket was varnished from the oil, but the area of the bolt head wasn't). They moved right into place as I tensioned the chain.

    Thus, I felt VERY confident that everything was together right, and was VERY happy I had bought new chains, because the old chain would have had way more slack in it and would have needed to be positioned differently. It's like comparing your answer to a test question with the answer. I also bought new upper tensioners, lower tensioner, and the green o-ring that sits in the passenger side upper timing cover that seals the oil passage to the lower tensioner. Also replaced the OSV, and all the o-rings dealing with that connecting to the intake. Think of this as "it only comes apart once, replace everything now."

    So before you take everything apart, mark where stuff was if you don't have any obvious indication.

    And one last thing: the new main chain was so nice and tight, I had a hard time putting the fully compressed tensioner in. That sucker would not be able to expand at all until the chain started stretching. So replace ALL of the chains!!
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    I read your response above after the repair and you still had the bank 1 error. I was thinking, "uh oh that may be a guides problem." Scroll down and yup.

    Yes, replace ALL of the chains. I can't emphasize that enough. Replace ALL OF THE CHAINS. The main, two cam chains, and oil pump chain. They are so cheap relatively speaking. And they all stretch. Read below.

    Now, I did this on my non-vanos motor, and I'm not sure how much is different on the vanos motor. But the camshaft sprockets were held on with a bunch of bolts on my car. When I replaced the chains, had the cams timed according to the tools, and got the chains on the teeth so that all sections were equally tensioned with the tensioner tool, the cam bolts ALL lined up perfectly to the original position they were before I took anything apart (I could tell because the rest of the sprocket was varnished from the oil, but the area of the bolt head wasn't). They moved right into place as I tensioned the chain.

    Thus, I felt VERY confident that everything was together right, and was VERY happy I had bought new chains, because the old chain would have had way more slack in it and would have needed to be positioned differently. It's like comparing your answer to a test question with the answer. I also bought new upper tensioners, lower tensioner, and the green o-ring that sits in the passenger side upper timing cover that seals the oil passage to the lower tensioner. Also replaced the OSV, and all the o-rings dealing with that connecting to the intake. Think of this as "it only comes apart once, replace everything now."

    So before you take everything apart, mark where stuff was if you don't have any obvious indication.

    And one last thing: the new main chain was so nice and tight, I had a hard time putting the fully compressed tensioner in. That sucker would not be able to expand at all until the chain started stretching. So replace ALL of the chains!!
    Agreed, chains are cheap not worth the risk. Also getting the upper tensioners, it's part of the ECS package. My only hesitation at this point is the oil distribution piece, Nr 2. here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_7557
    The problem is that I have no idea when my engine was actually made and if it has the upgraded version. Beisan says it has to be replaced for engines before 09/99. Is there a label somewhere on the engine showing production date? Seeing all kind of numbers but none of them are obvious dates. It's an expensive part, rather keep it if not necessary to replace it.
    I'm kind of looking forward to this project, it will be like getting a brand new engine (almost)!

  14. #39
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    That's the problem with this guides job. So many parts are pretty cheap and it just makes sense to change them. Next thing you know you're into it for a bunch of money.

    Not sure about the distribution piece. What is the build date of your car?
    2000 740i Sport | 2004 330xi | 1988 325i Vert | 2003 Z4 2.5 | 1995 Ford F150 | 2018 GTI

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkitect View Post
    That's the problem with this guides job. So many parts are pretty cheap and it just makes sense to change them. Next thing you know you're into it for a bunch of money.

    Not sure about the distribution piece. What is the build date of your car?
    Lol, yes. Started out like "$300 would do it" and already close to a thousand.
    Car was built 3/00, but engine was replaced by previous owner in 2012 and I don't know much about it.

  16. #41
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    What do you guys use for cleaning up surfaces with old gasket residuals? I dont want to make small cracks but some are hard to remove. I mean on the engine side, I dont want to use break cleaner there because of the plastics and wires.
    Also, is there any point having this battery terminal on the valve cover? Looks like just an extra cable with no practical use, I'm not planning to jumpstart anybody Does it serve any other purpose?

    Thanks!

  17. #42
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    Yes the wire is how you jump start your car

    I use simple green to clean, then carb cleaner if stuff is more stubborn and a razor blade carefully on any gasket material that is left after that. The surface prep for the gaskets may be the most important part, if you don't want leaks. Then I skim the gasket surface with Permatex gray RTV to give it a thin skin that will adhere and seal to the metal surface. It'll stay leak free way longer with that rather than relying on those crappy OEM gaskets that get hard in a few thousand miles and start leaking.
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    Yes the wire is how you jump start your car

    I use simple green to clean, then carb cleaner if stuff is more stubborn and a razor blade carefully on any gasket material that is left after that. The surface prep for the gaskets may be the most important part, if you don't want leaks. Then I skim the gasket surface with Permatex gray RTV to give it a thin skin that will adhere and seal to the metal surface. It'll stay leak free way longer with that rather than relying on those crappy OEM gaskets that get hard in a few thousand miles and start leaking.
    Good ideas, thanks!

  19. #44
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    I have some great news! I found all the pieces of the chain guide, can easily just super glue it together and the car will be good as new, see below:

    DSC06772 pieces.jpg

    On a more serious note, look where these nasty pieces went (oil pump filter)

    DSC06770 filter.jpg

    fished them out with alan keys, these were all inside

    DSC06773.jpg

    I wasnt sure if I could remove the cover of the filter, Bentley doesnt say so rather didnt try. I wonder where else they are hanging around.

    They are nastier than a honey badger! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

  20. #45
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    Well that's your definitive answer for sure. I used some picks to get up there and fish stuff out. My guides hadn't broken when I did them, but the plastic end of the dipstick had and who knows what else was in there because I got a few things out.

    I wouldn't remove the pump or make any adjustments to the chain slack if you bought a new chain. Just check to make sure the bolts are tight.
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  21. #46
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    I would make sure the tension on the new chain is within spec and adjust it if not. Perhaps the new chain will be right on unless someone has tightened it in the past in which case it might be too tight.

    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-motor/AnkwbMi
    2000 740i Sport | 2004 330xi | 1988 325i Vert | 2003 Z4 2.5 | 1995 Ford F150 | 2018 GTI

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    Thanks. Ordered the tools and the Timing Chain Kit from ECS. Thinking to order new bolts for the Vanos unit to make sure they stay in place. Anything else to replace while there? Maybe oil pump chain?

    Wish I had of been paying attention to the board and this thread. I have the timing tools to sell. What did you have to pay through ECS?

    I need to figure out a price and get it listed. I paid a bunch because I started out renting it and then finally just bought it it due to my really really long build project..lol
    1997 740iL; 5/96 build. Purchased 12/04. Off the road build project 2013 - 2021. back on road 3/2021. Became daily driver (only vehicle) 6/12/2021. Still not completed. Stay tuned as the adventure continues.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclops2 View Post
    Wish I had of been paying attention to the board and this thread. I have the timing tools to sell. What did you have to pay through ECS?

    I need to figure out a price and get it listed. I paid a bunch because I started out renting it and then finally just bought it it due to my really really long build project..lol
    Damn, I would have bought yours. Paid $130 with shipping for the tools on Ebay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by clarkitect View Post
    I would make sure the tension on the new chain is within spec and adjust it if not. Perhaps the new chain will be right on unless someone has tightened it in the past in which case it might be too tight.

    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-motor/AnkwbMi
    Thanks, I tightened it a few months back and it still has a perfect slack. Anyway, I will replace it to a new one so had to readjust.
    Strange how non of the guide pieces were present back then and now they are all over the place.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    Damn, I would have bought yours. Paid $130 with shipping for the tools on Ebay.

    I bought mine 3 years ago through a rental program that turned into a buy since I wasn't able to do the TCG job in a timely fashion. I paid $350! price has really come down it would seem. Guess I will try to sell mine, like new, for $100 shipped. I think if I ever need TCG again, that would signal - time to move on.. lol, but hopefully that is 200,000 miles from now!
    1997 740iL; 5/96 build. Purchased 12/04. Off the road build project 2013 - 2021. back on road 3/2021. Became daily driver (only vehicle) 6/12/2021. Still not completed. Stay tuned as the adventure continues.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclops2 View Post
    I bought mine 3 years ago through a rental program that turned into a buy since I wasn't able to do the TCG job in a timely fashion. I paid $350! price has really come down it would seem. Guess I will try to sell mine, like new, for $100 shipped. I think if I ever need TCG again, that would signal - time to move on.. lol, but hopefully that is 200,000 miles from now!
    How many miles have you put in since change? I'm hoping for at least 100K miles what would be exactly how long the current ones lasted, though age was a factor too for sure.
    You should be able to sell it for $100, used Baums still going over $200.

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