Jumped timing on '97 540i NON-VANOS engine?

[iBimmer01]

Hi Folks,
I am in the process of replacing the timing chain guides on my 97 540i (M62 NON-VANOS). I have turned the engine to its "OT" and locked the flywheel by installing the pin. However, my camshafts doesn't seem to be in the correct TDC firing positions. I might jumped timing as I turned the engine, since used a zip tie instead of the tensioner tool . Would that processes have caused any damaged, like bend the valve stems? Also, how can I bring the camshafts to their correct position now?


Thanks!

[JimLev]

Did you use the cam lock blocks to lock the cams in the correct position?

[iBimmer01]

yes, I did but the camshaft markings are not facing up.

[StRaNgEdAyS]

Have you done the job and are experiencing this issue putting it back together or are you locking everything in position in preparation for dismantling?

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[JimLev]

Were the cam lobes on cylinder #1 tipped toward each other when you had the crank at TDC.
Maybe you were not at TDC on the compression stroke?

[iBimmer01]

the cam lobes on cylinder #1 were not facing each other. I may have to turn another 180 revolution to get the cams in the correct position. right? Can I just remove the upper chains and turn each cam individually., since I already removed the chain guides? Thanks

[StRaNgEdAyS]

No, you cannot.
That would bend valves.

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[geargrinder]

I might jumped timing as I turned the engine, since used a zip tie instead of the tensioner tool .

Wait. More about this. You turned the engine with the tensioner out, before locking the cams? What order did you do what?
(this is like the 3rd thread recently where somebody has an engine open and apart and being super vague about what did or did not happen in what order...)

Here's the order things are supposed to go:
- lock flywheel, checking you are at proper TDC (marks up)
- take covers off
- fit cam blocks

If the cam locks fit, but cams face the wrong way then you are definitely 180 off. What are you using for instructions? That mistake is clearly warned and documented in any good set of instructions that I know of.

You now would need to re-fit chains, use the 'static tensioner' that comes with the cam lock kit, then unlock and turn 360.

Or you could take both heads off, turn all 4 cams 180, then put the heads back on. That's probably the easier route.

[JimLev]

No need to take the heads off, take the cams of to reposition them if needed.
Hard to tell you exactly what to do as GG said the info is vague.

[geargrinder]

Oh so we're trying to actually be sincerely helpful? OK OK.

[iBimmer01]

Thank you all for your responses

Steps taken:
- turned balancer to OT mark
- locked flyweel
- installed the camshaft lock blocks (all fit/aligned with minimal adjustment)

[geargrinder]

You originally said you turned it with no tensioner.
We are trying to figure out what/how/when/where that happened.
Since 'turning to OT mark' and locking are pretty much self explanatory as the same thing, and you don't explain when the tensioner came off, your 'steps' are uninformative.

My steps:
- lock flywheel, checking you are at proper TDC (marks up)
- take covers off <--- oh. look at this here. how interesting.
- fit cam blocks

Now, as for your "steps"... :
- took covers off here, and, didn't place tensioner?
- turned balancer to OT mark
- locked flyweel
- or took covers off here?
- installed the camshaft lock blocks (all fit/aligned with minimal adjustment)

It sounds like the former point was the case from your OP.
You say you think you skipped teeth, however, if the blocks still fit at same point as flywheel lock, that's unlikely to have happened (skips), and, its very unlikely you caused damage from purely dragging the chain around.

But, you do have to get the crank rotated another 360 with the chains on and re-lock things, otherwise the cam timing shutter wheels won't jig up properly.

If I was in your shoes, I'd probably go ahead and put all the NEW guides and chain etc. gear on (i.e. continue with your job), bolt up the cam sprockets with a 'light tighten' (not final torque), don't bother setting the shutters yet, then turn it the 360, refit the blocks properly at that point, and then do the timing shutters. You should turn the crank 720 a few times and re-check timing anyway with this job, so that's basically gonna be a rep of those anyway, so you shouldn't really lose any time that way.

The only other hazard by the way, would be if you turned the crank backwards at all when that tensioner was off. If you did that, you've got a much higher chance of something having touched.

[adamkas]

Except he's got non vanos engine (no shutter wheels then;-)). In that case does it really matter to have camshaft marks facing up?

[geargrinder]

DOH! Right. However... not quite 100% right... he doesn't have "no" shutter wheels, he still has one... And it still needs to be in the correct orientation.

But your general point is still correct I think - if the shutter wheel is hard-bolted to the end of the cam (not slotted that is... NV experts confirm?) then should be OK, as long as it all goes back together in exactly the same orientation it came off, i.e. not put in the orientation that any Bentley etc. pictures would indicate. If the shutter wheel is slotted to allow tweaking at all, then my previous suggestion would still apply i.e. put it all back together, turn it 360, re-lock the cams, then check and fix the shutter at the official proper TDC.

[adamkas]

Ahhh yes there is one wheel on passenger side bank, my bad As far as i know it is hard bolted so if removed - should be put back exactly same way it went.
By the way i'm planning on doing the job myself but unfortunately in TU engine :-( for sure i'll be here quite often for some advice

[iBimmer01]

yes, fortunately I have a non-VANOS M62 engine

Since I haven't ordered my parts yet and wanted to make sure, I haven't break anything yet, I temporarily put the chain guides back on and also the passenger side upper timing chain cover to have the timing chain properly under tension. I then removed the flyweeel pin and the camshaft locking tools and turned the engine another 360 degrees clockwise until all marker bores of camshafts are pointing upwards. So, that proves that I did not jumped timing.

My next challenge will be to torque down the crankshaft bolt AKA Jesus bolt. I heard there is a specific technique or way to torque the crankshaft pulley mounting bolt. Does anyone have a tip or trick to perform this?

Thanks again for all your feedback, I really appreciate it!

[kouks]

Do you a copy of the TIS?

Too involved to talk about here, but will show you the process on removing the cams and reinstalling the entire timing system. I don't do it any other way, and I've timed at least 5 M62 no TU engines. Always have the TIS with me. Get rid of the zip ties and do it the right way. Or you can have me tell you the story of a guy in the area with an M5 who did it the "quick" way and snapped a cam and seized the engine...your choice.

The TIS can be found on eBay for a $10 CD or here https://www.newtis.info/ until BMW takes down the website

[geargrinder]

My next challenge will be to torque down the crankshaft bolt AKA Jesus bolt. I heard there is a specific technique or way to torque the crankshaft pulley mounting bolt. Does anyone have a tip or trick to perform this?

I suggest using the proper crank holder for one. Lotta guys have gotten it done OK with the flywheel lock pin, but my pro tech bud snapped a lock pin trying to do that. There's knock-offs of the crank-holder tool on ebay although its pretty easy to fabricate with a plate of metal or even a junkyard harmonic balancer... weld a bar across that and call it good.

[iBimmer01]

Yes, I have that crankshaft pulley holder tool. It was necessarily to remove the Jesus bolt. https://www.amazon.com/BMW-CRANKSHAF...A?tag=pda0e-21

I was actually referring to the torque procedure. I've just found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-kzkf6MBHI

First, torque bolt to 100 Nm (74ftlb) - then mark the bolt position on the adapter you have made or bought that holds the crank from turning, move it 60 degrees on first pass, then take another bite and move it another 60 degrees, and finally move it 30 degrees.