Seeking transmission wisdom

[yukon101]

I believe I am one of the only E32 owners with a torque converter lockup shudder, it is very noticeable but does not occur when cold and at full temp. I had my shop officially diagnose it, his comments were that it is my filter (not OEM, it is Febi and is very noisy). I have already ordered a filtran filter but I am seeking the common wisdom of the bunch and if anyone had any thoughts.

[shogun]

I bet it is not the Febi filter, we discussed that here https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ht=febi+filter
If it is noisy and whining, then the cause is the O-Ring on the filter is not the proper size and the trans pump pumps also air with the ATF. Second reason could be too low ATF fluid.
I have installed plenty of Febi filters, no problem at all.
Some years ago a Porsche Carrera owner with ZF 5HP asked for help, he had this whining after a shop made an ATF change, especially when the ATF was not at operating temperature = less volume. So besides the ATF the pump also sucked air. Here some pics in my garage http://e32b12.blogspot.jp/search/label/Porsche
The problem was that they did not properly fill the trans and it was too low. We filled almost 1 additional liter. As he wanted to make sure, he left the car at my home and asked me to test drive it every day with cold ATF till it got to oerating temperature, this confirmed that the cause was not enough ATF.

A valve body cleaning and rebuilt might also help http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/825438
http://www.thectsc.com/products/valv...p30-80-39.html
most of the parts are not required, usually needed the paper gasket between the plates and a new plastic ball

Technicians guide, 11.5MB for download
INDEX
ZF 4HP-18FLE AND ZF 4HP-18 FLA DIAGNOSTIC INFORMATION
ZF 4HP-22/24 SERIES DIAGNOSTIC INFORMATION
MODEL “E-7” VALVE BODY WITH 5 SOLENOIDS
MODEL “E-9” VALVE BODY WITH 4 SOLENOIDS
ZF 5HP-18 DIAGNOSTIC INFORMATION
ZF 5HP-19FL DIAGNOSTIC INFORMATION
ZF 5HP-24 DIAGNOSTIC INFORMATION
ZF 5HP-30 DIAGNOSTIC INFORMATION
http://parts-at.ru/wp-content/upload...Tech-Guide.pdf

[yukon101]

This is interesting. I can see it being too big of an o-ring when I first put the new filter in it I pushed it into place and was letting it sit a second while I grab the screws and the filter fell and gave me a shower of transmission fluid as it fell into the catch pan. I'm 90% sure the fluid level is fine, I can throw it into corners and it will maintain the gear the not fall out, I have also done 100 mph on the highway just to see if I could and the trans didn't complain. The valve body may be a problem, it has about 150k on it since the updated valve body was installed.

[yukon101]

I remember I checked the fluid the other day, with the engine only being ran to pull it into the garage, I checked the fluid dead cold and without completely removing the fill plug it started streaming out which if I understand fluid dynamics it may be overfilled. I also check the temp of the trans with an infrared on the pan which I hear is about 5 degrees off of the temp sensor.

[shogun]

see: BMW Transmission Fluid level check
http://www.europeantransmissions.com...MWtechinfo.htm

[m60power]

You need to check the fluid for the 5HP with it in a certain temp range, I forget what it is exactly but I do know that when totally called and engine off it will take less than the required amount. You need to have the car level in the air (rear wheels off the ground) and have a friend keep switching through the gears (Park, neutral, drive, reverse, etc.) when the temp is in the correct range. It will take quite a lot more fluid when you do this. I didn't have a way to connect to the trans computer for a temp output so I used a multimeter with a K-type thermocouple wire fed into the fill hole next to my hand pump tube. Once it hit temp I started filling as my buddy ran through the gears until the fluid started coming out the fill hole again.

The febi filter is probably fine but I use the Filtran OEM one for peace of mind. Also you can un-bolt the valve body and replace the o-rings on both sides of the two valve body risers, those o-rings can be a source of transmission whine.

[yukon101]

I just got the Filtran filter delivered, it feels a little heftier than the Febi but I don't have both in hand to tell. The first time I filled it I kept the engine running but just kept pumping as much as I could in, jump in run it through the gears then pump more in then back out etc... I ended up getting 5 and a half quarts into the trans which I hear is too little? I was too back and forth between the two to really check the temp with my infrared on the pan. If I put the car in park on a hill to close the garage or something it usually takes a second to two longer to engage reverse or drive indicating its low on fluid but otherwise doesn't fall out of gear. On the bright side these filters are a lot more beafy than new cars, I have an F150 Motorcraft filter on the shelf and it is half the weight of the Filtran. I have Carsoft working on a computer but that cant get into the trans live data and INPA just throws errors at me. What is the part number for the riser O-rings? Before my initial service it had a very light whine and a 1-2 shift space, the service fixed the space but brought a much worse whine.

[shogun]

O-rings are shown here http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...BMW-740i&mg=24
Usually come with the filter kit.
Transmission Fluid Level Checking Procedure and Application Chart https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...lication-Chart
MODEL: All with the ZF and GM automatic transmission

SITUATION:
Checking the fluid level may be necessary if there is evidence of a leak, a complaint related to fluid level or in the event repairs are made to the transmission.

PROCEDURE:
Fluid Level Checking Procedure for all Transmissions without a Dipstick:
1. The transmission temperature must be between 30°C and 50°C before checking can begin. Use the DIS or the MODIC to determine the transmission temperature. (my hint: do it as cold as possible)
2. The vehicle must be level and without load. With the engine running, switch on the air conditioning. This will increase the idle speed and ensure that all oil passages in the transmission are filled with oil.
3. Step on the brake firmly, apply parking brake fully and move the selector lever through each gear position, pausing briefly in each gear.
4. With the engine running and the selector lever in Park position, remove the filler plug located on the transmission (see picture for location). If a small stream of oil runs out, the fluid level is correct.
5. If no oil runs out when the filler plug is removed, the fluid level is too low. Add oil until it starts to overflow.
6. With the engine running, reinstall the oil filler plug and tighten to proper torque. (Refer to section F below for proper tightening torque)

[yukon101]

I have a feeling my 500 only idle is screwing with the trans pressure and the ability to fill it to its fullest.

[shogun]

switch the AC on or the blower motor and lights, RPM should go up then as the alternator has to produce more power.
According to the workshop manual the idle speed for the M60 is 700 RPM.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...valve-question

[yukon101]

That's what's weird, I have everything turned on yet it'll only stick to 500 it officially has no vacuum leaks and a new icv and crank case vacuum is exactly where it should be.

[shogun]

maybe one of the relays bad or fuses http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/date...8_88-07_94.pdf

[yukon101]

I swapped in 5 different relays all with the same pin out and diagram and it made no difference. When I go to service it again Ill have my buddy keep it at a steady 700~ rpm to try and get more in. Ive read the usual amount on a drain and fill is between 6-7 quarts so its a bit low.

[whiskychaser]

Jam a piece of wood between the front of the seat and the throttle pedal and adjust to whatever rpm you want. Primitive but effective

[yukon101]

I have ordered the new o-rings but I can't seem to find the check balls and gaskets separate. Thoughts anyone?

[shogun]

That means you want to make a complete valve body overhaul? http://www.zftranspart.com/index.php...=108&parent=13
call Eriksson and tell them the details on the sticker/name tag on your trans, serial number, type and the parts number list number and as far as I understand they also sell single parts out of the complete VBK.
This complete 5HP30VBK contains basically everything, just in case something is broken, but usually the springs and orifices can be re-used. They also offer rebuilt valve bodies http://www.zftranspart.com/index.php...parent=13&pg=1

[yukon101]

I have installed a lesser mileage DME and now I have a cold idle of 700. Also with good news, most of the shudder that I was experiencing hasn't happened anymore and every shift is exactly the same whereas before it would always shift differently. Even my servotronic works exactly as it should now.

[yukon101]

Just to verify from what I have read from all the DIYs, I can unplug the valve body solenoids and unbolt it and it will wiggle out? Is there anything special I need to do to align with the gear selector when I reinsert the valve body?

[whiskychaser]

The insulation on the connectors on the valve body is often very brittle. So if you can reach it, you may be better disconnecting at the plug. The additional benefit is that you don't need to remember which wire goes where.
When you reinstall the VB, make sure the [ shaped section on the end of manual shift valve (1056327173) slides back on to the lever inside the trans. You may find it easier if you put the lever in the vertical position before you drop the VB. If the valve has moved while the VB was out of the trans, you can just move it quite easily so it lines up again.

[yukon101]

Felt I should update here, got the trans all apart and the valve body riser o-rings were definitely bad. Filled it back up and found it took 2 quarts more than I had drained out of it and I did not drain or clean out the valve body, I must've not pumped in enough fluid on my last service. My initial around the block drive were that it's not shifting nearly as clunky as before and is smoother than it's ever really been before.

[shogun]

I had my shop officially diagnose it, his comments were that it is my filter (not OEM, it is Febi and is very noisy

Tell your shop, the Febi filters are not a problem! This is based on my experience.
All this wrong info about bad Febi or other aftermarket filters is based on a DIY article posted in 2003 !!!! on BB https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ht=febi+filter

The problems for all filters are the o-rings, and if one is not careful, even a original filter makes problems, plus the correct filling procedure.
Our selection of bad and good o-rings, different filter kits http://e32b12.blogspot.jp/2012/10/tr...er-o-ring.html

[m60power]

Tell your shop, the Febi filters are not a problem! This is based on my experience.
All this wrong info about bad Febi or other aftermarket filters is based on a DIY article posted in 2003 !!!! on BB https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ht=febi+filter

The problems for all filters are the o-rings, and if one is not careful, even a original filter makes problems, plus the correct filling procedure.
Our selection of bad and good o-rings, different filter kits http://e32b12.blogspot.jp/2012/10/tr...er-o-ring.html

That's some good info about the O-rings! I had always used Filtran because that's what everyone said to use, but a poor seal on the O-ring would definitely cause issues.

[shogun]

Proper installation, fitting o-rings and proper filling of the ATF is all you need. Does not matter actually which filter brand. We have used a lot of these so-called Meistersatz trans filter kits from one of the forum sponsors like FCP EURO, MEISTERSATZ sounds German, actually belongs to CRP, originally named Conti Rubber Products Inc., but the filter kit is Made in China, works well, no problem.
Then we use also VAICO, Mann+Hummel filter kits for example for the 5HP30, 5HP24, etc.

For example coming weekend we make a trans service on an E46 320 incl. ATF fluid change, valve body overhaul, filter change and pan gasket. That E46 has a ZF 5HP19 = A5S325Z , just to give you an idea what is available based on a site in Germany for this trans, BMW p/n 24341423376
listed as premium
Febi Bilstein Art.-Nr.: 21023 (filter only)
Vaico EXPERT KITS + Art.-Nr.: V20-0343 (filter, O-ring, pan gasket)
Meyle MEYLE-ORIGINAL Quality Art.-Nr.: 3002434108/S (kit with filter, pan gasket, o-ring)

others
Topran Art.-Nr.: 108759 (filter only)
Metzger Art.-Nr.: 8020014 (filter, 0-ring, pan gasket)
Swag Art.-Nr.: 20921023 (filter only)

There I will use the Vaico V20-0343 expert kit, as I got some on stock.