Welded diff or limited slip? 528

[Marashz]

I have a 2000 BMW 528i, I just purchased a supercharger kit and I am looking to drift the car.

The car has lowered suspension, a front strut bar, and supercharger will be installed soon. I really want to make the rear wheels both slide. So my question is.. welded differential or limited slip? And how might a LSD be accomplished? I realized shortly after i purchased this car that I made a mistake. And If i was going to buy a BMW for a drift/project car I really should have gone with a 540i, a 328i, or an e36 rather. But I didn't, so now that I have this car, and I am determined to make it fast and slippery. I want it to be used on a track, and I definitely don't want my buddies Dodge Charger SXT smoking me on the highway.

Recommendations?

Also I want to mention that the car is a great daily. And I don't want to rip everything out of it for weight reduction, but If I have to and you guys recommend it.. I will. I have never seen such a clean more functional stock car though @ 18 years old.

[Marashz]

I am looking to weld the differential on my 2000 bmw 528i. I don't know if there are any limited slip options for my car, and if there are.. are they affordable? I realize there isn't much aftermarket support for my car model given it was never intended for sport/track use.

Recommendations?

Is this a good idea. I'm gonna weld it probably this weekend.

I just purchased a supercharger for the car as well. Looking to drift the shit out of it.

[StRaNgEdAyS]

Quaife and wavetrac both will sell you a bolt in LSD centre for your original diff.
I'm sure there are others.
Take your old centre out, swap your crown wheel and bolt the new centre in
Of course you'll need to follow proper procedure for checking clearances and backlash, but it's certainly a DIYable job.
Not a cheap as the good old CIGlocker, but it will last you longer, and give you a better driving experience.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

[computiNATEor]

I've seen recommendations for "MFactory" helical LSDs around these parts. Not cheap, at ~$1000, but comparable to what an M5 LSD + half-shafts go for around these parts, and way cheaper than having a diff custom-built for you by Turner or others.

This one fits my 02 530i manual, but your car may be different. I'd call them to verify fitment before you buy anything.

http://store.teammfactory.com/e39-52...t-helical-lsd/

[edjack]

Insane idea for an I6.

[dannyzabolotny]

I was going to say, you probably should have gotten a 540i/6 if you wanted a track car. That has a lot more power and there are far more aftermarket options for diffs.

[JimLev]

Does a 528 really need a welded diff or an LSD?

[geargrinder]

An I6 E39 is an all or nothing choice for a drift car.

Poor motor choice unless you turbo it, in which case, cool choice and go make big power, but which means copying what you can from the E36 guys but tweaking and inventing as needed cuz nobody turbos E39's.

Supercharger, meh, yeah the V8 stock would be prob better. SC for that 528 application is hardly worth the trouble.

Poor choice chassis wise with parts availability. But like a turbo if you do it, makes for a unique build.

OP do you intend to trailer it / dedicated toy car? Have you ever driven a welded diff car? It's kinda an all or nothing deal. Not for a streeter to take to the 7-11.

As others have said you can find LSD internals to self build, but you could also source an M5 LSD and swap it. Might need a custom driveshaft I think, tho might be able to mix and match various parts sections to fit it.

[computiNATEor]

Does a 528 really need a welded diff or an LSD?

Yeah, unless it's running coilovers and/or upgraded sway bars. The I6s don't have enough power to cause the outside wheel to spin, even flatfooted at full lock, because of the massive weight transfer to the outside wheel.

[JimLev]

Ah, so now after approving and merging his 2 posts (welcome new guy) we see he's got a S/C. Now we know the whole story.
Get an LSD, skip the welded diff.

[tptrsn]

This guy seems to have left the building, but if I were him I would pretty much copy the super cheap and fun drivetrain setup on my E36 (other than keep the manual trans, no reason to swap to an automatic ).

So that means welded diff, refurbed e-brakes with a handle extension, and $169 "GT35" turbo running E85 if it's readily available in your area.

The only question that remains is engine control. I'm not familiar with what DME would be in your car, but if it's one of the tunable ones with RomRaider or other options for the MS42/MS43, then you have super cheap tuning options. Otherwise, some cheap MegaSquirt will give you the ability to make at least 400hp pretty easily.

If you're dead set on running the supercharger for whatever reason, then your power potential will be limited, but on the other hand your situation will be more simple with respect to tuning the engine.

[EDIT] I should also add that after street driving my E36 and my dad's "woods truck" S10 with welded diffs, I don't mind it at all. You definitely know it's there, and they do goofy stuff from time to time. But I feel that peoples' expectation of how bad it is, FAR exceeds the badness of the actual experience. Whenever I get a non-helical LSD to work the way I really want it to work, it acts goofy too, so there's that.

[geargrinder]

Thad - he should indeed have MS42 and yep should be relatively 'hackable' and most if not all of the E36 cheap turbo knowledge should apply with just some chassis-specific things needed to be worked out like pipes and whatnot. Even if there is some funny situation where actual specific 'proper' factory E39 DME versions aren't mapped for TunerPro or RomRaider, well if this is gonna be a drift car, eff it, no problem to run a known-good E36 hackable version of the DME software I would think. The differences between the E39 and E36 calibrations and programs should mostly purely be DSC parameters and integration, but yer gonna disable all that stuff anyway! If it turns out there's some additional hardware oddity like how the E36 drives the Aux fan or something that doesn't cross-over, or the MAF part number is slightly different, well easy enough to sort that out and swap the E36 type stuff over (or in the latter example, since it's gonna be a custom tune, just tweak the tune for what's in there...).

That would be a super fun build I suspect, the E39 is so predictable to rotate, I imagine would be a fun drifter. Not super snappy but nice and stable...

Yeah, personally I can't stand the scrubbing from a locker on a street car, but indeed even my M3 stock LSD scrubs a little once in a while on right radius maneuvers as you say. So, personal prefs thing there I guess. (Ironically I'm the guy who makes fun of dudes who are too wimpy to deal with a teensy bit of LWFW noise, yet I don't want to deal with scrubby locked up diffs...)

[tptrsn]

It did take me a few days to get used to the oddities of a welded diff in my E36, but after that I was pretty much in love. To have the rear wheels completely locked together opens up driving options I haven't had since my kart racing days. I love it! And then we (I) welded the diff on my dad's truck after we took my E36 off roading Lol, and he saw what a welded diff is like. But the funny thing is that the welded diff in his truck seems much less irritating than the one in my gutted E36.

Since I tried his truck I've been wondering what a welded diff in an E39 with interior would be like. It's possible that sometime this summer I'll weld my old 540i diff and stick it back in the car. If I like it, I'll sell my M5 diff setup and recoup some dough.

As for the rest of the I-6 E39 drift car discussion, I find it pretty interesting, especially since the DME tuning options are good. The only drawback I can see is that I'm not sure what the options would be for modifying the knuckle geometry to add angle and quickness. Drifting is fun with stock angle, but I expect it will be a lot more fun with additional angle and quickness to give better ability to save yourself from spinning out when you bit off a bit more drift angle than you thought. With stock angle a lot of time is spent at full lock, modulating the throttle. I'm planning to install my angle kit on my E36 before the season opener this year, and really get nuts. Lol

[computiNATEor]

The only question that remains is engine control. I'm not familiar with what DME would be in your car, but if it's one of the tunable ones with RomRaider or other options for the MS42/MS43, then you have super cheap tuning options. Otherwise, some cheap MegaSquirt will give you the ability to make at least 400hp pretty easily.

If you're dead set on running the supercharger for whatever reason, then your power potential will be limited, but on the other hand your situation will be more simple with respect to tuning the engine.

Thad - he should indeed have MS42 and yep should be relatively 'hackable' and most if not all of the E36 cheap turbo knowledge should apply with just some chassis-specific things needed to be worked out like pipes and whatnot. Even if there is some funny situation where actual specific 'proper' factory E39 DME versions aren't mapped for TunerPro or RomRaider, well if this is gonna be a drift car, eff it, no problem to run a known-good E36 hackable version of the DME software I would think. The differences between the E39 and E36 calibrations and programs should mostly purely be DSC parameters and integration, but yer gonna disable all that stuff anyway! If it turns out there's some additional hardware oddity like how the E36 drives the Aux fan or something that doesn't cross-over, or the MAF part number is slightly different, well easy enough to sort that out and swap the E36 type stuff over (or in the latter example, since it's gonna be a custom tune, just tweak the tune for what's in there...).

As for the rest of the I-6 E39 drift car discussion, I find it pretty interesting, especially since the DME tuning options are good.

The MS42/MS43s are very easy to crack. Read up on stuff at ms43wiki.com and use the now-open Siemens MSS5x Flasher and TunerPro with the XDFs now available.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1173905
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1082287

[tptrsn]

That's pretty awesome. Almost gives me really stupid ideas for later in the year. Lol

[philly98540]

I would think a welded diff be fine for a mostly drift car, but I could see it wearing rear tires faster and causing some loss in rear traction during turns.

[tptrsn]

I would think a welded diff be fine for a mostly drift car, but I could see it wearing rear tires faster and causing some loss in rear traction during turns.

Kind of seems like the main driveability problem incurred from a welded diff/spool is actually loss of grip at the front end. The lack of differential action causes the rear end to try to keep the vehicle straight, which means understeer on corner entry. If you're aggressive with the throttle in corner, then things get much more normal and predictable once you unsettle the rear end a bit.

I'm sure it does wear the rear tires extra, and for the reason stated above, it pretty much has to add wear to the front tires too. But still, if the car is mainly a fun-haver of any type, a welded diff is pretty great. If the car needs to cart people around with good manners and whatnot, then you kind of have to spend the money on a wavetrak, M5 diff, or something like that.

However, I should note that My M5 diff with the NS style Redline lube in it drives fantastically, but is getting to be a little clunky at times in low speed turning. When you put the sort of lube in them that smooths out the little clunkiness, you also burn an inside tire from time to time... Most people wouldn't notice or care though.

[geargrinder]

The MS42/MS43s are very easy to crack. Read up on stuff at ms43wiki.com and use the now-open Siemens MSS5x Flasher and TunerPro with the XDFs now available.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1173905
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1082287

Yeah I used a buncha that stuff when I was helping out a bud a few months ago jamming a M52TUB28 block under his blown motor 325xi's M54B25 gear. (Car runs great BTW tho he hopes to custom tune it for better output eventually)

[computiNATEor]

Yeah I used a buncha that stuff when I was helping out a bud a few months ago jamming a M52TUB28 block under his blown motor 325xi's M54B25 gear. (Car runs great BTW tho he hopes to custom tune it for better output eventually)

Nice. I have the maps for the Shark Injector tune for the M54B30, if anyone wants them.

[geargrinder]

This guy seems to have left the building,

LOL. Looks like you called it.

[tptrsn]

Too bad, this could have been a fun project to enjoy vicariously.

[Marashz]

Not dead, thank you for the responses. I was thinking about a turbo, but I have not ever installed one. It seems fairly simple, but everything does until you do it. I just haven't figured out how/where I'd get it tuned here in upstate New York. Which is why I had decided to go with a Supercharger that comes with a chip tuned for your car.

I wish I had done some more research on this car before I purchased. But since I have the car now, and well over a few grand in maintenance put into it. I feel like it would be pointless to even sell and try for a 540. I'll never get my money back.

In terms of the weight. I'll gut the rear and have my friend make some custom sway bars. Unless there are options available online. But I'll have to do some research, and I am sure they're going to put another hole in my wallet.

It's all or nothing now. I will make this I6 scream like a V8, and pull like a turbo'd sr20.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I ran into some problems with the rear 02's. It appears the previous owner left his helmet on his toolbox, and stripped both of them. So I'm gonna have to figure out how to either disable them or replace the section of exhaust post cats.

[geargrinder]

Dunno whats up with the disappearing posts but...

Not dead, thank you for the responses. I was thinking about a turbo, but I have not ever installed one. It seems fairly simple, but everything does until you do it. I just haven't figured out how/where I'd get it tuned here in upstate New York. Which is why I had decided to go with a Supercharger that comes with a chip tuned for your car.

I wish I had done some more research on this car before I purchased. But since I have the car now, and well over a few grand in maintenance put into it. I feel like it would be pointless to even sell and try for a 540. I'll never get my money back.


In terms of the weight. I'll gut the rear and have my friend make some custom sway bars. Unless there are options available online. But I'll have to do some research, and I am sure they're going to put another hole in my wallet.


It's all or nothing now. I will make this I6 scream like a V8, and pull like a turbo'd sr20.

Yeah that's not gonna happen. No supercharged BMW I6 is gunna 'scream like a V8 and pull like a turbo'd SR20' (V8's scream? I'd probably swap the verbs in that whole sentence...). The non-modified / non-custom-tuned M52TU kits are lucky to put down a fairly sedate 300whp. Which is great and all. But its not 'screamin' and won't have much on the torque of a V8, or a proper turbo'd whatever.

[geargrinder]

BTW don't mean to be Debby Downer, I prob sound like that. Just mean to say "I suggest you readjust your expectations..." That motor even S/C isn't really going to approach the benchmarks you're targeting (OK maybe you'll pull even with your friends Charger SXT... he'll have you in any traction-challenged situations, you'll outhandle him for sure, general power might be close, tho' depends on which S/C kit you bought...)

[tptrsn]

GG, I had the exact thought when I read that post: Swap the verbs! I got the LRS out yesterday to start prepping it for drift season, and I was reminded what a little animal it is! I'm sorry to the V8 guys, and to each his own, but there is something special about these slant sixes with a turbo.

I rode in an e36 drift car of a forum member when I was down in Texas, and it was awesome in the actual meaning of the word. Spinning the tires up hill in 4th gear at over 130mph. Kind of set the bar for me...