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Thread: BMW E21 Differential Refresh BMW 33101208942

  1. #26
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    1980 BMW 320i E21 M10B18

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    Chased all the thread holes in the differential, I have a set of metric thread chasers.


    Randy

  2. #27
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    Got the Permatex High Tack in good from -65F to 500F. After Packing the inside seal edge with Grease, High Tack is coated around the outside of the seal and after waiting a few minutes the seal is pressed in with thumbs, ect to the back edge of the clean ring surface where the seal sits in the Bearing Cover.. Wear Gloves using High Tack coating the outside surface with High Tack 360 degrees with the included brush,,its not messy if your careful. I held the Seal by using two fingers inside the hole for the drive flange with one hand, while coating the seals outside surface 360 degrees with High Tacks brush applicator with the other hand. I picked up on this gem from watching a differential rebuilder on you tube. Zero wipe up if you use enough to get the job done and dont over do it.

    Bearing Cover Races
    Installed
    DSCI0221.JPG One Seal InstalledDSCI0222.JPGSeal being coated with High TackDSCI0223.JPG

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 01-29-2018 at 05:51 PM.

  3. #28
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    1980 BMW 320i E21 M10B18

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    Friedrich Fisher Bearing came in from Germany, Today. Fast Shipping,,yeah.
    DSCI0224.JPG
    Installed Large Pinion Bearing on Pinion Shaft with a Hammer and drift. No light between the bearing and Pinion stop -360 degrees- its seated.
    DSCI0225.JPGDSCI0226.JPG
    Installed the Bearing Race from Germany that pairs with the large Pinion Bearing in the Differential or 3rd Member case, Shim X was inserted first.
    DSCI0227.JPG
    Tools used to seat the Bearing Race: 3/4 " Steel Breaker bar, Engineers Hammer and the extracted old Pinion Race with the big nut welded in it, big flat side of it the driver with the 3/4" Steel Breaker bar flat end on occasions, plenty of room so it does not get loose. The big bearing race was in the freezer until I installed the pinion bearing on the pinion shaft.
    DSCI0228.JPG

    Next will be clean the case again yet only the inside-first time I put the case in a big bucket of Hot Water with Purple Power and then dish washing soap{Painted afterwards} and then install the pinion shaft with bearings and races oiled with the Clamp Bush or Crush Sleeve and take the slack out-Seat the bearing and then set turning torque to 22 in lbs ~ 2 ft lbs.


    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 01-30-2018 at 07:55 PM.

  4. #29
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    Turning Torque @ 22 in lbs done. I used my Ridgid X4 & Ridgid Gen5 X Impact Wrenches , the Gen 5X Ridgids Current Flagship Battery Impact Wrench has 4 settings that allows for slower to faster torque settings, The Clamp Bush is tubular steel and does not compact and expand in the middle easy. The torque on the pinion nut is 108 ft lbs (minimum) and the turning torque is 22 in lbs . In impacting one watches the socket lettering and as it turns around very slowly, stop and check for play, when there is no play left,,spin the flange and it will have zero resistance to turning around then its time to tightened very slowly until 22 in lbs of turning torque is obtained on your beam or other in lb torque wrench, very short bursts of the torque from the wrench or breaker bar and recheck frequently with in lb tool for turning torque. I'll use a torque wrench on the pinion nut to get to 108 ft lbs minimum on reassembly. If tightening torque to 108 ft lbs minimum is not achieved on reassembly of the pinion nut ect after putting in the pinion seal ,no biggee get a fresh clamp bush and redo.

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 10-25-2019 at 10:12 PM.

  5. #30
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    Pinion Shaft Seal is installed with a coat of High Tack on the outside of the the seal 360 Degrees. Now to drive the bearing cover bearings on to the ring gear open assembly and put it back together.

    Pinion Nut on at 108 ft lbs +

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 01-31-2018 at 02:29 PM.

  6. #31
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    Installing the 2nd Bearing Cover with its shim and a new Viton 75 O-Ring , coated with Super Lube, I'm using some home made Guide Pins I made for the transmission to get it straight in from the get go, they have a slot cut on top for Flat Head Screwdriver, Phillips Head anyone..
    DSCI0229.JPG


    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 01-31-2018 at 05:16 PM.

  7. #32
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    Wow! That looks a lot better than when I pulled it out of that orange car. Nicely done
    -John

  8. #33
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    So you stuck in the car next to it, it should look good all new bearings, seals, gasket,clamp bush, degreased,paint, ect.. Thank You John.

    Randy

  9. #34
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    Put the bolts in the bearing caps and coated them with High Tack, torque ~ 16.5 Ft lbs. Installed the Left and Right Drive Flanges can hear the click when they are seated on later model 3rd members,earlier ones have a circlip to hold them in.

    Randy

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somjuan View Post
    Wow! That looks a lot better than when I pulled it out of that orange car. Nicely done
    Thanks, here is a craiglist bmw e21 rolling shell with lsd,near bay area, make him offer on the lsd, if your looking for one.

    https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto...450488504.html

    Randy

  11. #36
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    Done with the refresh or rebuild. As soon as the drain plug comes in I'll fill it with a quart of differential fluid.

    No need for locktite on the Pinion Nut, locker plate indented locks the nut.

    DSCI0230.JPG
    Cover Plate torqued in with gasket using High Tack and High Tack on the bolt threads.

    DSCI0231.JPG
    DSCI0232.JPG

    Randy

  12. #37
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    Bellissima! Thanks for the awesome writeup! I feel much more confident I can handle this job now.


  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 320iAman View Post
    Thanks, here is a craiglist bmw e21 rolling shell with lsd,near bay area, make him offer on the lsd, if your looking for one.

    https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto...450488504.html

    Randy
    Very nice! Thanks for the tip, I'm moving to the medium case though. I like the variety of options for gear ratios and better halfshafts. Looks like a professional rebuild that you did there
    -John

  14. #39
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    Thanks,,

    When you arrive at zero play with the bearings on the pinion shaft and inch pounds turning torque is zero or near zero inch pounds, the in lbs on the bearings will come up very fast using a powered torque wrench, so you slow it down to a couple of impacts per second and then measure, short burst.

    The Powered torque wrench method will take over from the breaker bar-cheater-socket method, jumping up and down with your weight on breaker bar-socket connection is a mere one impact,, Powered Torque wrenches go like 3900 ips- impacts per second and when the the crush sleeve material is varied to harder steel which happens sometimes-the breaker bar method could take days to compress the sleeve, ask me how I know.....Employing the powered torque wrench method and be done in a few minutes or a couple minutes more...

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 02-02-2018 at 11:14 AM.

  15. #40
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    Of course I have to mention that upon graduation of using breaker bar-cheater tube-socket with level support on the socket so it wont slip out, then I found this tid bit form a socal differential builder, use a torch to heat the clamp bush or crush sleeve then insert on the pinion shaft then use the breaker bar and so forth,, it will compress slowly to what is required after a few torch treatments, the torch method is used when steel tube runs vary in the mix and are harder than usual specifications for this automotive application.

    Added to FAQ's Differential rebuild started by Mr Gumby's 320is rebuild-bearings.

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 02-05-2018 at 10:27 PM.

  16. #41
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    randy, you changed 4 bearings, their races, removed and replaced the pinion and you didn't think it was important to check gear lash and contact?
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
    88 e30m3
    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
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  17. #42
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    The Gear Mesh was checked and is okay. A second new fill/drain plug came in today and the BMW Plug is here in the States in bound. The Plug is not aluminum they are steel. I filled the Differential with fluid and turn it over from time to time to keep it lubricated and put on its sides for the side cap bearings and stand upright for the pinion bearings, till I install it, later on. Its some what heavy not light, the Differential.

    I Checked Frictional torque value and its 12 in lbs which matches BMW Service Manual for New BMW Pinion Shaft Seal installed with the 3rd member assembled.( 10 in lbs turning frictional torque and 2 in lbs added for new seal), which is drive pinion adjusted to 12 in lbs if you have a new seal installed or replaced a leaky one with a new one, this is at 108 ft lb plus on the Pinion nut simultaneously.


    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 09-25-2019 at 03:08 PM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 320iAman View Post
    The Gear Mesh was checked and is okay.
    then i think you should have included it in this tread. having the correct contact between the ring and pinion is very important and definitely can be altered by changing bearings and crushing the sleeve, important enough that any tread that is titled "diff rebuild" is misleading without it.
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
    88 e30m3
    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
    02 r1150rs
    all of them gray
    14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!

  19. #44
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    The BMW Drain plug is not here yet although cleared customs,, I found this site that sells the same plugs- only blackened and I bought one to finish off this refresh/rebuild of this differential, before filling with differential fluid.

    s-l1600.jpgIts an M22 x1.5 mm,same as BMW 33111212682, in case yours need replacing. I thought these were aluminum until I did a magnet test.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Fitt...ss!95821!US!-1


    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 02-05-2018 at 10:43 PM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 320iAman View Post
    Pinion Shaft Seal is installed with a coat of High Tack on the outside of the the seal 360 Degrees. Now to drive the bearing cover bearings on to the ring gear open assembly and put it back together.

    Pinion Nut on at 108 ft lbs +

    Randy
    Just took my diff apart and cleaned it out - put it back together with a new crush sleeve in it from Pelican Parts. The 108 ftlb of torque went out the window. I most have applied 200 ftlb to 250 ftlb to the nut to get it to start to crush it. When I hit 108 ft lb the pinion still had about 3/16" of in and out play to it?

    Anyone else ever run across this? It is all good now with good rotation and end play to the pinion.

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  21. #46
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    The Crush sleeve or Clamp bush is compressed until there is zero play,,no movement-left or right / forward or backward on the pinion shaft. When there is zero play you put the in lb torque wrench on the pinion nut(no pinion seal installed at this time) and turn it around, disregard the initial turning torque reading and look at the gauge when the pinion nut is being spun around 360 degrees, you'll see almost "0" in lbs to turn the pinion shaft around,,now you tightened the pinion nut some more until you get to 22 in lbs reading on the in lb torque wrench, when your at 22 in lbs take the pinion shaft nut off and install the pinion shaft seal, now torque up to 108 ft lbs + the pinion nut and your good to reassemble. I set my digital torque wrench to 108 ft lbs and went over slightly.

    Once your done and differential is completely wet or full of oil, take your in lb torque wrench and turn the pinion nut around again, you'll see 12 in lbs of turning torque, 10 in lbs for the turning torque for the entire assembly and 2 in lbs for the new seal.

    What I did not cover is turning torque completely assembled without oil and find the turning torque contribution of the closed or open assembly bearings-side case bearings load when torquing the side case nuts to 14.4 to 17.4 ft lbs, it will be over 22 in lbs and then when oiled up drop significantly to target 12 in lbs which is factory specifications for the mesh of gears & bearing load turning torque fully assembled. So turning torque of the open and closed assembly is X- 22 in lbs= turning torque of the open or lsd assembly side case bearings with side case shims installed. I used 16.5 ft lbs of torque for the side case bearing cap bolts and hit the target 12 in lbs "bulls eye" 1st time.

    If I'm using a ram press to drive the races in, I always stop short of the shoulder or race stop and drive in with drift or better old race or seal/race driver as I dont want to bulge the races and deform them as this changes things I dont want changed. Arm and hammer method to seat the races-manual method is top of the line work. The only time I would use a ram to seat races is knowing the bending or bulging pressure of the race and then be under that significantly of the ram pressure, in the manual method the driving sound will change on driving the race 360 degrees when its against the stop or shoulder. bass to treble for music lovers, low to high pitch, thud to twang and so forth, clean race stops is a must. Mister Gumby did not mention this as he knows it too well.

    With new bearings the slight loss power to the wheels is gone, yet add that up with parasitic losses car wide,suspension,drive train and so forth it does add up.

    Of course it would be an error on my part to not mention what bearing manufacturers have to say about this, they all stand on the point of "0" zero load or preload is acceptable, so compromises are not possible, so warranty on bearings that have a preload or load is a dicey issue when they have worn down too fast, we just change them out and squawk later and never take advantage-thats not good, we say the bearing were preloaded at factory specifications and roll the dice on them accepting them for warranty exchange, if this occurs. BMW bearings have a two year warranty of being in specification-ball size and so forth.



    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 02-16-2018 at 02:56 PM.

  22. #47
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    Thank Randy this makes more sense!

    - - - Updated - - -

    PS - MAN Redline diff oil stinks!!!!
    Last edited by OLD MAN; 02-16-2018 at 02:13 PM.

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  23. #48
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    Cool

    lol, Sure Daryl... The zero load on bearings is what we are tightening,, the axial load could 4,000-6,000 lbs in the horizontal-vertical, yet load on the Z- axis or the 3rd dimension, most bearing companies list this as Zero Load or Flush,, 10-12 in lbs is less than 1 ft pound so its not a biggee. I have talked with SKF before and heard there policy's, the technician I talked too registered me with SKF, so I got a leg up many many years ago. SKF is a Swedish Co.

    On an early early car I had, the differential went bad, no one would touch it, I contacted a heavy equipment mechanic and he said bring it in, $100 later it was repaired, he sourced the parts thru a few workers in the shop.. ,, Things rub off,,lol. , the differentials they do are huge.

    Thanks for the update on torque,,when I was going with my Ridgid Battery Impacts The impact socket moved so slowly I knew it was good as I watched the lettering on the socket move slowly around, I'd stop and check play of the clamp bush,when no play its 22 in lbs time, all in all a few minutes work, from days to minutes,, thats progress. This is not my first rodeo with differentials.

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 02-17-2018 at 08:31 PM.

  24. #49
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    I'd like to add to this if don't have a press I've used this kit for doing all bearings on BMW's. Even the rear wheel bearings on E30's while on car. Works for diffs too and easily seats races in the housing etc. The pinion bearing and gear bearings can be heated and dropped on for assembly without a press.

    Walmart has the kit as well.
    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rel-Produ...&wl13=&veh=sem




    Harborfreight
    https://www.harborfreight.com/front-...ers-63260.html

    Last edited by autox320; 02-18-2018 at 07:28 AM.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  25. #50
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    Like say should sticky this thread. I'll add a few pics from one of the diffs I did. I hold the pinion with the same tool used for the fan nut removal on newer BMW's. Just a flat bar with holes in it. I noticed they are correct spacing to also hold the diff flange. Was quick enough with the camera one handed to show spinning the pinion quickly and at 20-22 in-lbs. I do use blue loctite 242 on my pinion nuts plus the lock plate torqued at 108-115 ft-lbs. Lash can be felt rocking the ring gear. Usually if it's excessive slop you can feel it. Long as can feel some play. When hot gears need some clearance. I measured this one at 3.5 thousandths which is plenty. Over 4 thou I'd shim it up a bit by spacing closer to the pinion.

    When crushing the sleeve it is quick once reach a preload. You can be checking one minute and have say 10 in-lbs, then blip the impact on it and it will be hard to turn ie 40+ in-lbs. At that point the crush sleeves are cheap from BMW or places like FCPeuro. Have spares and try again.

    If we get into clutches, the only thing I've seen in the 168mm diff is shimming the clutch pack to preload it giving about 40% lockup vs the factory 25%. This is about all can do with the 168mm diffs. The 188mm have the common spacer in there that can be replaced with an additional clutch providing more lockup. Even more than that can machine the cap to accept yet another clutch for 4 total. This is reaching 75% lock and would probably want to modify the ramps (V grooves) to release the lock on corner entry acting more like an open diff on track when off the gas. Less lock helps turn in, more lock helps power out. Meh that's all I know to give input on it. There are plenty of real diff experts on the board. Clutches are the shizz. Diffs like quaife are great until you hop kerbs at a race track they don't like that and unload. Clutch diffs don't do that and are on when on throttle. They just give best feedback IMO.






    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

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