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Thread: E36 "Xi" plausibility

  1. #1
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    E36 "Xi" plausibility

    I was wondering if any ones heard of or been involved with a e36 awd conversion.

    Was thinking of throwing the xi oil pan with differential on my current engine with the xi front hubs and struts, the transfer case and maybe a custom rear driveshaft if I can't find one that fits.
    Thanks.
    Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.

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  2. #2
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    Using E30 parts or E46 parts?

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    Not possible. Axles will not clear chassis arms. Been there, tested, cannot be done...

  4. #4
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    there was a 318 AWD hill climb car built on here at one point...then got totalled. Can't remember what drivetrain they used.

    Ninja Edit...

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...WD-Image-Heavy

    Aquiring some parts - Engine M54B30, rear frame/axle E39 M5, Gearbox E34 525Xi
    Front frame from E46 330Xi




    They cut out a lot to fit the front DS












    Last edited by Moron95M3; 01-18-2018 at 11:39 AM.
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    Very doable if you have some fab skills..

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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderg0d View Post
    I was wondering if any ones heard of or been involved with a e36 awd conversion.

    Was thinking of throwing the xi oil pan with differential on my current engine with the xi front hubs and struts, the transfer case and maybe a custom rear driveshaft if I can't find one that fits.
    Thanks.
    I would consider using e30 325ix drivetrain parts for the conversion. Custom fabbing the oilpan to work with m50 based motors is already done and documented, check out r3vlimited's IX section for more info. The front diffs, transfer case etc are much simpler than the e46 XI's system.

  7. #7
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    It looks as though the e30 system leaves the forward driveshaft a lot closer to the transmission leaving the possibility of not cutting the trans tunnel? Also must already have a oil pan to fit as e30 came with the m50 non vanos right? I imagine I would still use the e46 front struts and stuff as they obviously are upgrades to the e30 parts. But I guess it would come down to the gearing in the front differential.. Whatever they are or if there even is more than 1 option.. That would kind of kill the project as a probable useless.
    Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.

    HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!

    -Oakdizzle

  8. #8
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    E30 came with M20 engine, not M50 engine, but still 2.5L.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderg0d View Post
    It looks as though the e30 system leaves the forward driveshaft a lot closer to the transmission leaving the possibility of not cutting the trans tunnel? Also must already have a oil pan to fit as e30 came with the m50 non vanos right? I imagine I would still use the e46 front struts and stuff as they obviously are upgrades to the e30 parts. But I guess it would come down to the gearing in the front differential.. Whatever they are or if there even is more than 1 option.. That would kind of kill the project as a probable useless.
    I have an automatic 325ix, I believe my diffs are 4.10 ratio. The manuals had a longer ratio.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderg0d View Post
    I was wondering if any ones heard of or been involved with a e36 awd conversion.

    Was thinking of throwing the xi oil pan with differential on my current engine with the xi front hubs and struts, the transfer case and maybe a custom rear driveshaft if I can't find one that fits.
    Thanks.

    Buy an EVO X, 911 turbo, or GT-R if you want AWD. IMO, BMW's AWD transmissions are pretty much crap for handling any significant (ie point of needing AWD) HP. It's always the transfer case. (New AWD M5 tranny is probably great though). Subaru's 6MT is great and if they ever put a non glass engine in front of it, I'll let you know. You need to look outside BMW for AWD transmissions is my short story. It also be a multi-year job for sure.


    E30 era xi parts are very rare, certainly not getting any cheaper, and what do you do when you eventually break them? I don't want to see you venture down a poor path and end up regretting it. I've had my fair share of great ideas that occupied 5 years of my life for nothing.

  11. #11
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    if you need awd under 700hp on normal roads then you can't drive

    or you are the kind of person that has no technical understanding of anything and thinks that a rwd spinning when taking off like an idiot is the rwd's fault and then want awd

  12. #12
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    I want AWD and I have under 700 rwhp. I cannot put all the power down in my turbo E36M3. I have a race logic traction control system that I will install this year and it should help. My next car will be a 991.1TT — AWD and under 700 rwhp.

  13. #13
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    I figured e46xi would be more available to soarce.
    Is assume that there would be a transfer case upgrade? Maybe aftermarket unit?
    Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.

    HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!

    -Oakdizzle

  14. #14
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    The pre-emptive plan would be buy wrecked or blown e46xi and e36 coupe shell. Strip cars completely, test fit entire drivetrain, modify tunnel ,driveshaft and mounts on a chassis roller at work.
    Either that or fit a Chevy ls 4wd system.
    Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.

    HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!

    -Oakdizzle

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moron95M3 View Post
    there was a 318 AWD hill climb car built on here at one point...then got totalled. Can't remember what drivetrain they used.

    Ninja Edit...

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...WD-Image-Heavy

    Aquiring some parts - Engine M54B30, rear frame/axle E39 M5, Gearbox E34 525Xi
    Front frame from E46 330Xi




    They cut out a lot to fit the front DS












    Oh GOD.. Lol..Wt..h.. Jeez.. Kinda ugly but poor little car, such a project.. what ever happened to it? are they doing a rebuild??

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by samy01 View Post
    if you need awd under 700hp on normal roads then you can't drive

    or you are the kind of person that has no technical understanding of anything and thinks that a rwd spinning when taking off like an idiot is the rwd's fault and then want awd
    may odin grant you wisdom.
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

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  16. #16
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    My wife had a Nissan March/Micra e-4-WD, developed by Hitachi. Great idea, no complicated drive system, just a electric motor on the rear axle and a larger battery and larger alternator. And on the dash a button, switch on,off.
    http://www.hitachi.com/rev/pdf/2004/r2004_04_102_3.pdf
    AUTOZINE TECHNICAL SCHOOL: Nissan e-4WD was probably the earliest electric 4WD system put to mass production. It was launched in 2002 on the Japanese market March (i.e. Micra) and Cube as option. That was well before the popularity of hybrid and electric cars. Make no mistake, these cars were neither hybrids nor EVs (they had no battery to store energy). They just tried to offer the benefit of 4WD without the excessive cost / weight / size penalties of conventional 4WD hardware. Their primary objective was not to improve handling or driver appeal but to deal with snowy roads in winter, so they were quite popular in Northern Japan. The system was actually developed and supplied by local electric giant, Hitachi.
    The e-4WD system manages to save weight and space because it has no mechanical connection between engine and rear axle. The front wheels are driven by the engine as usual, while the rear wheels are driven by an electric drive unit which is mounted under the boot and between the rear wheels. The electric drive unit consists of a small electric motor, reduction gears and a differential/clutch unit. It is supplied by an engine-driven generator via cables. As it eats power from the engine, the electric propulsion does not add any performance, unlike the case of hybrid cars. What triggers the engagement of electric rear axle is a 4WD switch on the dashboard. As seen, this is a very simple and low cost 4WD system. It takes little space thus can be easily fitted into front-wheel-drive small cars. In particular, there is no need to modify the chassis to make space for a transmission tunnel. This make it especially attractive to small FWD cars like the March and Cube.
    http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ion/4WD_4.html
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  17. #17
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    I don't know guys. With how much they had to cut out, to fit the transfer case, is sketchy. It would be better to just fit an e36 exterior onto a e46 base. Lol. Maybe from the bottom of the door cill up e36 and floor and rails from the e46. Which actually sounds absolutely feasable and yet completely crazy.
    Since i would be widening the track width anyway, it wouldn't be much concern to fabricate e36 fenders to fit e46 front section. Or front end.

    Probably over thinking... Wondering if its legal? What vin would it legally have? And now I've realized I've absolutely lost my f538king mind!
    Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.

    HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!

    -Oakdizzle

  18. #18
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    I would just buy an E46 325xi or 330xi if you want an inexpensive BMW AWD car. As others have noted, BMWs AWD systems have been for traction not performance or handling to this point in time. The $100,000 2018 M5 changes that but it does not look like you are in that market. If you want to spend more money for a more modern and powerful car, a 335xi or 535xi is worth a look. We have had a 535xi wagon for 7 years. Rare car. You can buy an 08 535xi wagon for about $8k these days. It’s a lot of car for the money.

    I’d like to get a performance AWD car in the next year or two, probably a used 911TT. I would also drive it in winter.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterM52 View Post
    Oh GOD.. Lol..Wt..h.. Jeez.. Kinda ugly but poor little car, such a project.. what ever happened to it? are they doing a rebuild??

    - - - Updated - - -

    .
    They put the drivetrain in an E46 (no fab needed) then sold it.

    They're now building an M1 replica on a full tube frame... :o
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  20. #20
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    I always loved the m1. But I imagine it would be like having an 80s farrarri. Nice for the 80s but found lacking in competition with modern.
    Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.

    HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!

    -Oakdizzle

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    I would just buy an E46 325xi or 330xi if you want an inexpensive BMW AWD car. As others have noted, BMWs AWD systems have been for traction not performance or handling to this point in time. The $100,000 2018 M5 changes that but it does not look like you are in that market. If you want to spend more money for a more modern and powerful car, a 335xi or 535xi is worth a look. We have had a 535xi wagon for 7 years. Rare car. You can buy an 08 535xi wagon for about $8k these days. It’s a lot of car for the money.

    I’d like to get a performance AWD car in the next year or two, probably a used 911TT. I would also drive it in winter.

    I had a N55 335 XI and IMO that transmission is garbage too. It can barely handle BPU torque levels (my AT Xdrive threw TCU codes all the time) from that awesome engine. Also, good luck finding a 6MT X drive. If you go to an E90, the only choice is RWD MT IMO. Stay away from the Xdrive. With that, you are better off with keeping the E36. All the big HP E9xs are RWD and MT. There is a reason for that. E90s are highway only cars as the chassis can't handle twisty back roads well. There isn't enough front suspension travel and they bottom out A LOT.

    Buy an EVO X if you want to go fast with AWD. They aren't perfect, but can't be beat from a reliability and performance standpoint. The only real issue is the AYC units rusting out, but there are trunk relocation kits to help preserve them. If you can afford a used GT-R that is another great option. A 500whp EVO will shit on just about any BMW from an every day performance standpoint. I'm just too old for them though.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
    I had a N55 335 XI and IMO that transmission is garbage too. It can barely handle BPU torque levels (my AT Xdrive threw TCU codes all the time) from that awesome engine. Also, good luck finding a 6MT X drive. If you go to an E90, the only choice is RWD MT IMO. Stay away from the Xdrive. With that, you are better off with keeping the E36. All the big HP E9xs are RWD and MT. There is a reason for that. E90s are highway only cars as the chassis can't handle twisty back roads well. There isn't enough front suspension travel and they bottom out A LOT.

    Buy an EVO X if you want to go fast with AWD. They aren't perfect, but can't be beat from a reliability and performance standpoint. The only real issue is the AYC units rusting out, but there are trunk relocation kits to help preserve them. If you can afford a used GT-R that is another great option. A 500whp EVO will shit on just about any BMW from an every day performance standpoint. I'm just too old for them though.
    You are hereby banished from this thread because of your treasonous words of vile disgust. (Pats my BMW..."its okay, I made the bad man go away!"... Hugs steering wheel).
    Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.

    HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!

    -Oakdizzle

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
    I had a N55 335 XI and IMO that transmission is garbage too. It can barely handle BPU torque levels (my AT Xdrive threw TCU codes all the time) from that awesome engine. Also, good luck finding a 6MT X drive.
    Our 08 E61 535xi wagon has the N54 with the older 6 speed auto. The car has only a JB4 for mods. Ours has been very reliable in the 100k miles and 7 years we have owned it. Has 130k total miles. I maintain it very well and did a preventative maintenance fluid and pan/filter change and mechatronic sleeve. It will throw codes if I try to drag race it off the line with the traction control on, but TC is so intrusive that it should be off for full throttle starts. Maybe there is recoding that can be done for the trans ECU and traction control. I recoded the traction control on my 08 E90 M3 and it made a noticeable difference by allowing more slip.

    The new ZF 8 speed is supposed to be pretty good — BMW uses it in racing M235i and it is used in the new M5. It can handle a lot of power. Could be the control system on the less sporting cars needs reprogramming.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
    I have an automatic 325ix, I believe my diffs are 4.10 ratio. The manuals had a longer ratio.
    Pretty sure mine are 3.46

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