Spark plug misadventure NGK 3199

[Kirk Anderson]

Should have been a dead-simple job. Bought six new NGK platinums (3199) BKR6EQUP for my 530i, exact replacement for the ones in there.
Except they weren't. They were sticky on the 5/8 socket, and one of them wouldn't fit into the socket at all. This became a PITA because if the
plug won't let go of the socket, then after you've tightened them down, the socket stays with the plug and you pull out an empty extension and ratchet.
And then there's the one that wouldn't fit into the socket at all. The old ones fit just fine.

So I put on my Jr Scientist hat and got out my caliper. Old ones measured about 15.85 mm (with slight variation of course), new ones measured 16.00 mm or even a bit more. Measuring corner-to-corner confirms the problem. And the old ones have angles on the hex that look slightly less sharp (not from wear).

I had to buy one new plug from a local shop, and duct-tape my socket to my extension. The swear jar got full.

I also ordered a genuine 16mm socket to use for next time instead of a 5/8. But math tells us that the difference is trivial (.0049") anyway, even if manufacturing tolerances on the socket are that tight.

[edjack]

Get an extension that locks onto the socket, Craftsman, et al. Then you can muscle the socket off the plug.

[crazy4trains]

I just used a pair of long-nosed needle nose pliers to retrieve the socket. Had to do that on every plug.

[geargrinder]

Exact same thing used to happen to me all the time w/ my old car and my old spark plug socket. Temporary solution I would use was some tape on the end of the socket-extension to jam it into the socket. With my old worn socket the spark plug also would not stick in the socket and both inserting/removing the plug would fall down into the well and I'd be using some long hemostat things I have to pick them out again ,and also tried a little tape inside the socket for a jam-fit.

Eds suggestion was my 'final solution'. Got a locking-extension which a new magnet-end plug socket. Works great. Well with the exception that rarely I will find a brand of plug that has a non-ferrous base and so the magnet doesn't work. But mostly it's great. Locking extension FTW. I think mine came from someplace crappy like Autozone even. Probably says "Duralast" on it or something. Works brilliantly.

[JimLev]

Gearwrench make a nice one, not expensive either.
image.jpg

[f355spider]

Frustrating problem! You made me nervous, as I just ordered and received 8 new NGK 3199 plugs off Ebay from "parts container" for $47.60 with free shipping.
Fortunately, mine mic out just fine, and fit my socket no problem. I use a dedicated 5/8" spark plug socket (cheapo from Taiwan) that has the little rubber donut inside that helps to retain the spark plug as you insert and remove them, so I don't have to "fish" around to retrieve them. I think the socket was like $1 at the hardware store in one of those dollar bins.

[Kirk Anderson]

I also ordered a genuine 16mm socket to use for next time instead of a 5/8. But math tells us that the difference is trivial (.0049") anyway, even if manufacturing tolerances on the socket are that tight.

Guess what? That 16mm socket arrived minutes ago, and even the naughtiest spark plug slips in and out like a charm. Surprising. Because the socket is 1/200th of an inch bigger?
Thanks for the tip, y'all. I did not know there was a locked-to-the-extension option.

[f355spider]

I've never had an issue with the socket coming off the extension easily...but I just checked some of mine. The longer ones I use with my spark plug socket are either USAG or Facom, and they fit tightly. The shorter ones are from cheaper Stanley or no name Taiwan sets...yup, they come off rather easily. So I guess a locking type or better quality extension is the answer if this is a problem.

And yeah, thanks for the tip on locking extensions, didn't know those existed

[cnn]

I agree with geargrinder re Magnetic Socket.

I posted the info about 6 years ago. In fact, I already threw away my spark plug sockets with old-school rubber insert.
With the Magnetic Spark Plug socket, it is a breeze. About $11 at Advance Auto etc.


Tool Talk: Spark Plug Socket, Old-Schooled vs Magnetic
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=639616


If you read the review on Amazon about GearWrench 80546 (shorter and longer version available but this is what I use), you will see it is a marvelous tool:
https://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-80...ustomerReviews

- - - Updated - - -

Once you go Magnetic, you will never look back at Rubber Insert Socket. The guy that invented the Magnetic Socket should receive a Noble prize in BMW...lol...

[f355spider]

.

[geargrinder]

yup, they come off rather easily. So I guess a locking type or better quality extension is the answer if this is a problem.

Yeah, we're talking 2 independent but related problems - the extension holding onto the socket, and the socket holding onto the plug.

Honestly the extension-socket thing was never an issue for me until we got to these deep DOHC valve covers/cylinder-heads. With the Audi it first cropped up on for me, the wells are quite snug, so you'd easily get contact/friction pulling the socket/plug back up again. Combine that with either old extensions or socket-sockets and it'd fall off constantly. If the wells are shallow and/or larger bore vs. the plug size, no problems.

And the rubber dingus works great when its new - a new one holds stronger that the magnet honestly - but eventually they crap out. I have several plug sockets but all of them turned out to be weak-ass rubber holders and in fact one is missing the insert I discovered (must have ended up on a garage floor or in an engine bay at somepoint) As I said before, only trick for the mag socket is non-ferrous plugs which I didn't know existed until recently!

[Uturn540]

Another solution that I use since this is a common issue are a longer sockets available from Northern tool. Long Socket.jpghttps://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200354175_200354175

[crazy4trains]

I broke one of my 25 year old Craftsman 3/8" ratchets a few months ago. Off to Sears I went to seek a replacement. They at first tried to repair it but could not due to age. New fine geared ratchet and off I went.

Every $##$@!$% socket that I have falls off this ratchet. The underbody panels make fishing for sockets fun too as they don't fall to the floor for easy retrieval. I'm going to have to buy a cheap harbor freight ratchet to solve this problem.

That long socket looks great.

[f355spider]

I broke one of my 25 year old Craftsman 3/8" ratchets a few months ago. Off to Sears I went to seek a replacement. They at first tried to repair it but could not due to age. New fine geared ratchet and off I went.

Every $##$@!$% socket that I have falls off this ratchet. The underbody panels make fishing for sockets fun too as they don't fall to the floor for easy retrieval. I'm going to have to buy a cheap harbor freight ratchet to solve this problem.

That long socket looks great.

Does HF sell a locking racket? (the kind with the push button in the center of the ratchet dial). That might be a good option. But I have both a cheap set of sockets and rackets (Stanley set I bought at Costco 30 years ago) and also a set of USAG and a set of Facom. There is a difference. If you can find a sale, try a higher end set...they really are nice.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

SnapOn and Matco for me. Mac's are great too, but my local Mac dealer seems to have fallen off the map. Matco makes a great set of locking extensions in which you have to pull down on a knurled ring to unlock the socket, I have them in quarter inch, had them in 3/8's, but I think my brother came by and commandeered them, really pisses me off.

[geargrinder]

I broke one of my 25 year old Craftsman 3/8" ratchets a few months ago. Off to Sears I went to seek a replacement. They at first tried to repair it but could not due to age. New fine geared ratchet and off I went.

Every $##$@!$% socket that I have falls off this ratchet. The underbody panels make fishing for sockets fun too as they don't fall to the floor for easy retrieval. I'm going to have to buy a cheap harbor freight ratchet to solve this problem

Yeah. Good news is that some budget brands the quality is decent for non-pro use. Bad news is that a lotta legacy brands just suck now. Even some guys say the new Snap-on stuff blows compared to what it used to be and what you pay.

Eff Crapsman these days. I got a few old school Craftsman wrenches that are great. One shortish-handle 3/8" ratchet that must go back to the late 70's or early 80's, got it to work on my motorcycles back when my entire tool collection would fit in a small canvas sack. That thing has dings all over the handle when a young stupid GG used to hit it with hammers to try to bang off stuck fasteners. It has worked on so many cars and bikes and everything else I can't even count. That thing has been so used and abused and still works impeccably. Never needed a part ever. My Dad has a whole pile of old Craftsman stuff like that (at least the stuff that hasn't been stolen by the tradesman buddies who come over to help him fix things...)

But then I have newer era Crapsman long-handled pivot head ratchet - like late 90's or early 00's maybe. It sucks dead goat scrote with extreme predjudice. Pawls stick, freewheel sometimes, have broken a few times. I disassemble all my ratchets and clean and regrease usually, and that can work wonders for a cheap ratchet, but this thing just sucks and is beyond saving. Brought it back to Sears a couple times and last time the guy pulled out a couple cardboard boxes full of them. Took mine and put it in the 'in-box' and handed me one from the 'out-box', as I take it what they do is rebuild your broken one, put some new-but-just-as-sh!tty parts in it, and hand it to the next guy who comes in with a screwed up one. That's pretty much it for me with that thing, I don't even bother taking that POS out of the drawer anymore.

The GOOD quality HFT wrenches ("Pro" series) are way nbetter than Crapsman at this point IMO. Unfortunate.

Would love to have a whole box of Snap-on/Mac/Matco stuff but can't justify the price for everything... I used to pick up used pieces here and there but even those cost a bomb now. These days I'll pick and choose my tools based on frequency of need/use vs importance of quality... For my 'main line' ratchets, if I need one I might hit the used tool joint for a proper top line item, maybe even a 'vintage' Crapsman if the price is right (cheap). Same for mainstream sockets - i.e. 3/8" metrics. For 'occasional' crap (ex: 1/2" SAE stuff.. rarely do I touch those, or maybe like a specialty ratchet like a stubby or a swivel head or something...) I'll examine my budget choices and pick between HFT and others, and save the big cash for something that's more important.

[motion]

Some good sockets, ratchets, wrenches, etc. can be had at your local pawn shop. Some times they have just what you wan,t just don't over pay. Years ago you could buy a set of Craftsman cheap then bring them to Sears and pick up a new set.

[Perern]

I noticed that on mine too. I just put it in the socket before it grabs it, takes some time not to drop it but it works