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Thread: The angle kit master thread

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by e30 394 View Post
    If the half kit has the same feel and geometry and just less angle than the super kit that sounds right up my alley.
    Essentially it is exactly that. The control arms are a big limiting factor in how much angle you can achieve due to clearance but that also really depends on the wheels you are using too.

    Yoshi is right though. Most people who buy a half kit end up buying the control arms later on. The full kit is less money in total than buying the half kit and control arms separately.

  2. #52
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    One of my concerns is the street-ability, the inner balljoint shake looks like it hangs kind of low but i could be wrong. Id hate to bang that thing on the road if i go off track or hit pot hole. Also Ive heard that some of the hard wear can back off and that understandable but not something id like to happen on my way to events. both of these could be just me overthinking honestly..


    IG: dimitriantoniou

  3. #53
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    I DDed my ultra kit for a while with no issues. I do white out to mark the nuts for quick checks. Just pop full lock one way, check, full lock other way, check, go on my way.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  4. #54
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    We use top lock stover style nuts on all of our hardware and they lock onto the threads hard but if you want to make extra sure that nothing backs off you can simply add some red threadlocker to the threads for a bit more piece of mind.

    Also one other thing that I forgot to point out that is a very valid point when it comes to a properly engineered kit. Notice how the only fabricated arms in this thread (SLR) have the proper included angle for the balljoints. This may seem like a minor detail but if you do not have this angle built in to keep the balljoints from running out of articulation in bump and droop you will have to set the car static ride height low enough to put the arms level with the ground. That means that you essentially are Negating the effect of the roll center spacing that is one of the main benefits of the steering block spacer height. Also I think this is part of the reason why those who run wisefab seem to bend so many arms. Constantly bashing against arm bind due to a ride height that is too high. Not 100% sure though, just a thought.

    Its one of those things that points to how well thought out something is. Also i think that is also why MG went with their weird clevis design on the inside because I think their first version just used a rod end with a stud that you can just look at and tell that is going to break easily.
    Last edited by Piner; 03-22-2018 at 10:43 PM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piner View Post
    We use top lock stover style nuts on all of our hardware and they lock onto the threads hard but if you want to make extra sure that nothing backs off you can simply add some red threadlocker to the threads for a bit more piece of mind.

    Also one other thing that I forgot to point out that is a very valid point when it comes to a properly engineered kit. Notice how the only fabricated arms in this thread (SLR) have the proper included angle for the balljoints. This may seem like a minor detail but if you do not have this angle built in to keep the balljoints from running out of articulation in bump and droop you will have to set the car static ride height low enough to put the arms level with the ground. That means that you essentially are Negating the effect of the roll center spacing that is one of the main benefits of the steering block spacer height. Also I think this is part of the reason why those who run wisefab seem to bend so many arms. Constantly bashing against arm bind due to a ride height that is too high. Not 100% sure though, just a thought.

    Its one of those things that points to how well thought out something is. Also i think that is also why MG went with their weird clevis design on the inside because I think their first version just used a rod end with a stud that you can just look at and tell that is going to break easily.
    you may be right on the wisefab line of thinking. caleb quanbeck just had a video on his channel where he got a new set of wisefab arms and imediately went and threw them in a press to bend the outter ball joint mounting area just a few degrees

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    I DDed my ultra kit for a while with no issues. I do white out to mark the nuts for quick checks. Just pop full lock one way, check, full lock other way, check, go on my way.
    Be interesting to hear you thoughts on the SLR kit and how its improved your driving etc.

  7. #57
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    I've been drifting for... 14 or 15 years now (wtf?). I've also been teaching drifting for years and had a few "apprentices" in that time. Originally, my thought process was that low angle taught you how to manage angle. But really, it's very "asian parent" and slaps you across the face for saying 2+2=5.



    My E30 was very unforgiving and super twitchy. The angle kit allowed me to learn how to get to angle and manage it without severe punishment. As a result, I learned faster. Much faster. When tandeming, spinning out can cost you your car. So the extra "oops" angle that you normally never use could keep you from a spin and a tandem crash.

    The SLR kit specifically just drives nice. I've driven cars with home made kits, adapter kits, and SLR kits. I've driven a few wisefab kits but not on bmws so my opinion isn't complete. Most cut knuckles or adapter kits feel terrible for street driving. I've had some perform poorly on track too. Bad wheel return and changing of how the car feels as you give it more angle are two things I notice the most. Wisefab kits are consistent but I never could wrap my head around how it wanted to be driven. I'd be jamming and maybe lift to slow down and then the front end would understeer. Again, this is all an opinion and the cars I've driven could have had bad ball joints and no alignment so grain of salt.

    Bottom line is that the SLR kit felt natural and intuitive to me. I'm not paid for by Sean. You'd figure he'd give me a discount by now but I paid full price and waited 2 months for my sexy purple kit. I would REALLY love to try out the wisefab kit on a BMW tho. Someone rich just buy me a set plz.

    /dissertation

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  8. #58
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    So, there is some discussion of 5th gen Camaros on the Lone Star Drift Stuff page of guys running E9x angle kits slightly modified to work on their 5th Gen camaros.


    PINER - ever heard of this? Maybe yall should check it out and get in the Camaro game if its something easy to make work.

  9. #59
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    Yes, Essa ran a slightly modified E90 wisefab kit on his black Camaro. 5th and 6th gen Camaro's and the Cadillac ATS front suspension is nearly identical to the E90/E82/F30/F82 front suspension. I do not know all the specifics but Sean did say our modular E90 kit should be very easily adapted to work on 5th and 6th gen Camaro's.

    We are currently putting the finishing touches on our fully billet Aluminum Knuckles for the E90 kit.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piner View Post
    Yes, Essa ran a slightly modified E90 wisefab kit on his black Camaro. 5th and 6th gen Camaro's and the Cadillac ATS front suspension is nearly identical to the E90/E82/F30/F82 front suspension. I do not know all the specifics but Sean did say our modular E90 kit should be very easily adapted to work on 5th and 6th gen Camaro's.

    We are currently putting the finishing touches on our fully billet Aluminum Knuckles for the E90 kit.
    someone in that particualr thread posted screenshots of an email chain they had with Essa on how to mod everything to work. not sure how to get the link from mobile

  11. #61
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    I was tagged by a friend in that thread but I haven't read much in it yet.

  12. #62
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    yep, I was looking in to a Camaro a while back and spoke with Sean about developing a kit for it, he said the SLR E9X kit would be super easy to adapt

  13. #63
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    Pix of thread or the setup itself? I'm so curious.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    Pix of thread or the setup itself? I'm so curious.
    join the Lone Star Drift Stuff page. if anything, its a pretty rad page anyway.

  15. #65
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    does anyone offer the simple angle adapters for a m3 knuckle? I bought some a while back and found out that they only fit non-m knuckles, so i went looking no ebay and found a seller that specifically listed them for the M ...well they were the same as the previous ones and didnt fit. Someone must make those simple angle adapters for a e36 m3 knuckle!

  16. #66
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    They should fit, you just need to add spacers.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  17. #67
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    Hey, just wanted to add this thing in here since it should be released to the public soonish? IDK I'm not running it. But it's the PBM kit. No clue how it drives or feels. But it looks weird. Mostly wanted to see what other people's thoughts were on the control arm mount being bolted to the subframe. I personally think that's a huge failure risk. I've heard that PBM likes to build crumple zones into their kits. But that just seems like it's asking to have the control arm ripped off. Also Not sure how I feel about the two arms not being linked together. There's no support from fcab to inner ball joint and that again, to me, seems like a weak point.







    Anyways. I run SLR ultra. My opinion is don't buy anything else. I've driven cars with other lock kits, i've made my own (for e28) and the only thing I've found even remotely comparable to SLR was a pieced together PBM/Gktech on a pro2 s13. It's so easy to drive. Everyone who drives my car (I let pretty much anyone that can link a track drive it so like 20+ people) compliment it and are baffled by how easy it is to drive. SLR 10/10. Also wanted to add. I daily drive with that kit and it is amazing. I had to order new sphericals and tie rod heims because I've put about 20k miles on them (maybe more.) But it was under $100 to rebuild the whole kit essentially and on top of that everything either presses in or out, or just unscrews and it's all doable at home. You can't beat that.
    Last edited by Jrcanes55; 06-05-2018 at 03:16 PM.

  18. #68
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    I'm still a little sad I didnt spring for the ultra, but I'm going for the oem+ look for the street, didn't want a crazy wide stance/ have to cut for camber plates. My super kit is hopefully arriving within a week.

    Kind of on topic for Angle kits- Is there any way to get e46 inner tie rods without buying the whole assemblies? I can't find them thorugh any parts site I use (ECS, ZNM) and can't find part numbers on just the inners.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrcanes55 View Post
    But it's the PBM kit. No clue how it drives or feels. But it looks weird. Mostly wanted to see what other people's thoughts were on the control arm mount being bolted to the subframe. I personally think that's a huge failure risk. I've heard that PBM likes to build crumple zones into their kits. But that just seems like it's asking to have the control arm ripped off. Also Not sure how I feel about the two arms not being linked together. There's no support from fcab to inner ball joint and that again, to me, seems like a weak point.
    Like that old saying if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. The gold is a good color. Other than that... Im drawing a blank

  20. #70
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    Aw someone post pictures back up. I haven't seen finalized details on the kit yet.

    @Paul, why you lying?

    The PBM kits have a few major draw backs. The first is weight. I haven't had my hands on the bmw kits but all of their stuff is pretty heavy to hold. Otherwise, I'm just not super confident in a company who has never really made BMW parts before.

    The good here is adjustment and replacement. PBM expects you to hit stuff and then come to them for the broken parts. With SLR, you take a hit, the whole control arm has to be replaced. And that's $$$$$. The angle blocks on both kits are likely able to withstand an impact. The PBM kit has several heim joint adjustment points. I don't know if it's just camber or caster too. But this design allows the joints to buckle under impact or break. If you can find the dimensions/thread/etc, you could likely just buy the heims yourself. On the track, in competition, this could save a ton of time. COULD.

    I've seen nothing on ackerman or its adjustment. Most kits seem to not bother with this for some reason. PBM also usually makes their control arms 2 piece. This means your control arm will have 4 heim joints instead of 3. It isn't bad in and of itself. But while testing the FD RX8 with sikky, we broke that 4th heim joint so many times due to triangulation and sheer force. You want to place it as far in for wheel clearance as possible but too close and you fulcrum that biatch until it pops. You can't curve the rod too much or you have the same issue.

    My aversion to the kit is simply weight. But if the price is there, I could (have been) swayed. I already picked my SLR coolaid. PBM seems late to this game. Even looking it up brings up SLR first for me. That or google knows enough to put it in my results.

    There is good in this kit. But like every other kit, it has pros and cons.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  21. #71
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    The main problem with the PBM kit is the same issue with the AKG or any two piece control arm that has a pivot in it. The Lollipop attachment point is not designed to take nearly any axial load. Lateral load yes, axial no. So when you hit the brakes the part of the control arm that goes into the lollipop will be pushing into the bracket and has the potential to rip the whole FCAB mounting structure out of the frame rail. This is a real possibility with wheel to another car contact as the load path goes straight in that direction. The reason why we and most other kits do not put a pivot in the control arm and use a one piece arm is because the load will pivot around the inner balljoint stud. This tansmits the load to the lollipop in a lateral direction which the frame rail is designed to withstand.

    The BMW motorsport cars that have used two piece control arms similar to what PBM has done had massively reinforced Lollipop mounts. Both internally and external gussets were added to the frame rails of the car to take this load. Their arms also didn't put the pivot as far inward as well decreasing the leverage that the arm is exerting on that part of the chassis. The PBM pivot is very far down the arm creating a huge lever and multiplying the force that will be axially exerted into the lollipop many times over.

    The rest of it has some "Features" that make you really scratch your head in disbelief why anyone would do what they have done.

    Overall the kit is badly engineered. I foresee them making major changes to the kit once customers start putting it though its paces.
    Last edited by Piner; 06-07-2018 at 01:02 PM.

  22. #72
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    For some reason my imgur keeps making pictures vanish. But cool. Hopefully it works and doesn't fail on people. Especially on track. On a side note I have their subframe reinforcement plates and they're pretty good. Cheap too. I also would like to see that swaybar in person. It looks pretty rad and would allow me to run something other than a sketchy e36 non-m bar.

    pbm.PNGpbm2.PNGpbm3.PNG
    Last edited by Jrcanes55; 06-08-2018 at 08:27 AM.

  23. #73
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    Paul can you talk about those new kits and how they work? I'm curious about the E28.
    instagram @andyitslit

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Press22 View Post
    Paul can you talk about those new kits and how they work? I'm curious about the E28.
    theres a new kit for the e28?my buddy has a 535is he has been wanting to turn into drift car.

  25. #75
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    E28 is annoying. Same as e90 but rear steer and the upper control arm is in the rear as well. I did knuckles on mine and had to run stupid low offset wheels to make it work. Also calculating ackermann on that stupid multi link crap is frustrating. I basically had to play guess and check with three pairs of knuckles until I liked them.

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