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Thread: The angle kit master thread

  1. #1
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    The angle kit master thread

    Edit: Handy excel sheet with pros and cons here!

    Any widely available angle kit for bmws (E30-E46) will be listed below. Feel free to chime in with other options and I'll add them to the list.

    IRP kit
    Capture.PNG
    URL: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-irp-germ...BoCIIYQAvD_BwE
    Cost: 1280
    Pros: Massive angle adjustable camber plates
    Cons: Non adjustable lollipop
    Yoshi notes: Delrin lollipop isn't ideal (spherical ftw). The adapter also adds spacing which will effect scrub/etc. The kit also lowers mechanical trail so self steer will be negatively impacted. Camber plates have a nice range of mega adjustment. No ackerman adjustment.


    Wisefab
    Capture.PNG
    URL: http://www.evasivemotorsports.com/mm...y_Code=WISEFAB
    Cost: 1525
    Pros: wisefab is well known in the drift world
    Cons: Costly. Allegedly hard to get replacement parts
    Yoshi notes: Some kits don't come with the mega camber plates and some also don't come with the spherical CABs. Like the IRP kit, this also lowers mechanical trail and pushes the scrub radius out. (why do so many kits to that?). Either no ackerman adjustment or really bad ackerman adjustment (2 drastic change in positions iirc).

    SLR
    Capture.PNG
    URL: https://slrspeed.myshopify.com/
    Cost: 700-1400ish
    Pros: Generally cheapest option
    Cons: Customer service/timeline issues
    Yoshi Notes: Full kit is $1400ish. Stock trail maintained. The camber plate adapters require existing camber plates to hybrid to. On my E30, the GC camber plates didn't mate to the SLR mega plate without helicoils. IMO best geometry of this list. 4 or 5 way ackerman adjustment.


    SRS Concept
    Capture.PNG
    URL: https://srs-concept.com/product/super-angle-kit/
    Cost: 900
    Pros:Cheap!
    Cons: Unproven brand. Doesn't come with adjustable camber plates or lollipops
    Yoshi notes: No cabs or camber plates. Maintains stock trail tho. Uses balljoints instead of sphericals for the main control arm point (pro or con depending on who you talk to). No ackerman adjustment


    MRT
    Capture.PNG
    URL: https://catuned.com/mrt-bmw-e30-e36m...teer-angle-kit
    Cost: 367
    Pros: Most bare bones kit possible
    Cons: No control arms, tie rods, etc.
    Yoshi note: Most bare bones I've seen. No control arm/cabs/camber plates. Maintains factory trail. Ackerman adjustment exists but doesn't look like it will hold adjustment well (how does it lock into place?!). Doesn't look like it maintains bump steer with the roll center adjuster. Requires you to press in the control arm ball joint (IE need special tools). For the price, this is amazing though.

    Drift Knuckles

    URL: http://www.driftknuckles.com/product...corn-angle-kit
    Cost:700-1000
    Pros: Relatively cheap
    Cons: Requires a core, ???
    Yoshi notes: Cut and welded. No adjustment. No frills. Gets it done but at a price that doesn't seem to be worthwhile.

    MG
    URL: https://www.bigduckstyle.com/product...wide-angle-kit
    Cost: 1150
    Pros: ??
    Cons:??
    Yoshi notes: Factory trail appears to be maintained. Camber plates might be the mega type? Ackerman is non adjustable and looks to be 0. Spherical cabs are nice. Control arms have an odd mounting point that might compromise geometry and add bump steer (someone confirm for me).

    Spin Prevention Kit
    URL: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...9#post29933189
    Cost: ??
    Pros: Cheap AF
    Cons: Short supply.
    Yoshi notes: A user reported a defect where the control arm (or tie rod) nuts kept loosening. Trail is reduced. Uses balljoints in many places instead of spherical. CABs aren't spherical. No camber adjuster plates.
    Last edited by protomor; 02-07-2018 at 02:45 PM.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  2. #2
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    drift knuckles

    http://www.driftknuckles.com/product...corn-angle-kit


    mg solutions offers a kit too, but i dont think they have a website, just a facebook page.

  3. #3
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    Also these about to be released by Powered By Max. E46 Only so far.
    26156963_1690782774331590_3034410384787243008_n.jpg
    instagram @andyitslit

  4. #4
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    Well apparently you can only attach 5 images per post so here come direct links!

    I'll put up the PBM kit once it comes out with full details. Plus only E46 is kinda... meh.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Press22 View Post
    Also these about to be released by Powered By Max. E46 Only so far.
    26156963_1690782774331590_3034410384787243008_n.jpg
    That PBM kit appears to be the most wildly over complicated kit ever, also WTF are those lollipops

  6. #6
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    Pbm stuff in general is shitty, coilovers bend and snap without crashing, arms corrode through their coating very quickly, the shanks bend just by looking at them, and even though everything around them is weak, they use massive tubing to ensure you will bend the fuck out of subframes before bending their arms. Added bonus we ordered their subframe reenforcement plates and they sent us a box of rusty metal and also tossed in some of the scrap that got cut out on the table when they were water jetted/however the cut the plate

  7. #7
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    Also, the MG kit

    https://www.bigduckstyle.com/product...wide-angle-kit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikestokman View Post
    Pbm stuff in general is shitty, coilovers bend and snap without crashing, arms corrode through their coating very quickly, the shanks bend just by looking at them, and even though everything around them is weak, they use massive tubing to ensure you will bend the fuck out of subframes before bending their arms. Added bonus we ordered their subframe reenforcement plates and they sent us a box of rusty metal and also tossed in some of the scrap that got cut out on the table when they were water jetted/however the cut the plate
    I've heard a lot of bad about them, but a PBM kit and coils have been on my FC for 2 seasons now and I don't drive nice. I've jumped the car, dirt dropped it at lock, ETC and only ever bent an inner tie rod (OEM) and the little steering stop on the PBM arm

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would also add a con to the wisefab kit is getting replacement parts, I've heard it's nightmarish. All hearsay though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is the Jalopi kit still around? Is Jalopi even still around?

  8. #8
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    The Jalopi website is down and no one's heard from the guy in a while. I'd add it if it was still on the market for sure.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  9. #9
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    Since I work at SLR I am a bit biased. But I feel we have gotten much better at customer service since I started here and Sean isn't doing it all on his own anymore.

    The PBM kit from an engineering stand point is brain tormentingly terrible to look at. So many design choices that just make you go Huh?

    IRP is simply a knock off brand. Their standard kit is a 1 for 1 wisefab knock off and their "Pro" Kit is a 1 for 1 SLR knock off that's more expensive than one of our kits, Yeah we sell the real thing cheaper. Figure that one out.

    We do also sell our "Budget kit" Which has the same functionality as our Super kit it just uses your factory arms that you cut your outer balljoints off and have Billet steel extensions welded to the ends for the extra clearance. That kit right now is $699 on our website. Its a great deal honestly.



    Just want to add that the MG kit requires welding a clevis joint to your subframe for their inner ball joint setup to work. It is very sketchy looking. I have attached a couple photos of this so you guys can see what I am talking about. 26940691_10211442601157608_1985554713_n (1).jpg26940389_10211442602557643_2042475638_n.jpg

    I don't want to come off as just talking shit but I do have a good amount of inside info on this stuff since I deal with it everyday now. I'd rather you guys get the information and then decide what you want to buy.
    Last edited by Piner; 01-16-2018 at 02:44 PM.

  10. #10
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    The MG solutions kit is only available for non-m knuckles. Just FYI.

  11. #11
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    Also another point of note the SRS concepts kits arm design necessitates you use offset rack spacers for the tie rods to clear the arm shape and well Im sure you all know how long S13/S14 racks last with a set of those offset rack spacers installed. There is a reason why S-shassis steering racks are getting a bit rare as of late.

    Drift knuckles kit has no rollcenter or bumpsteer correction and fixed ackerman. The Rollcenter and bumpsteer correction is key to really improving the front geometry on these cars and providing a better feel and driving experience. Also I'm sure they require a core charge as well.

    And well wisefab stuff is well known for being very fragile which makes the replacement parts issue an even bigger problem. The geometry they use according to many testimonials is very strange and makes the car drive weird, I won't get into the specifics as to why because I will be here all day. Some people like it and others hate it.
    Last edited by Piner; 01-16-2018 at 03:05 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake261 View Post
    The MG solutions kit is only available for non-m knuckles. Just FYI.
    I thought they were basically the same?

    Thanks for chiming in Piner. Really, most of the options posted come down to SLR or wisefab. I just want to compile a full list so I'm sure I've covered all of the bases.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  13. #13
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    No problem, alot of this information is not very well known. The design choices some of these other kit makers have made are not readily apparent at first look. I wouldn't blame anyone for buying any of these kits if they didn't have this background information. You can buy whatever you want but its better to have all the facts before you make a decision.

    As far as M and non-M E36 knuckles, the tie rod pickup point has slightly different spacing so if the steering plate doesn't have the leeway to fit both designed in they will not swap over. Our plate is engineered to fit e30/e36/e36M/e46/e46M with the same plate setup. So if you decide to move to a different BMW chassis it will still fit with slight changes on accessories which we can provide if you make the switch.

  14. #14
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    Didn’t cover alll the bases though, there’s that sketchy eBay kit With all the bad geometry and sketchy install.

    Slr is a really good looking product, my friend purchased the super angle kit and it’s very pretty. Install was more or less simple, taking the tape off the arm where they protect it from powder coating honestly took longer than the actual install. Somehow I managed to fuck up a lollipop insert because the tolerance is so tight and there’s no real instruction anywhere on how to install them, plus they don’t tell you how far it should be installed onto the arm in order to bolt up to the car easy, but other then that I figure from unboxing to install the whole process maybe took 1/2 an hour.

  15. #15
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    If you see other kits, post em up. I couldn't find the sketchy ebay kit other than the knuckle adapter that's literally just the adapter. I would like a discussion about the differences between kits. Like the IRP kit seems to put both the tie rod and control arm mounting points farther away from KPI. Isn't that bad? Don't you want your control arm pivot as close to the king pin as possible? I guess just run a higher offset wheel. But that should be known before buying the kit.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikestokman View Post
    taking the tape off the arm where they protect it from powder coating honestly took longer than the actual install.
    Glad I'm not the only one that struggled with the tape. LOL
    instagram @andyitslit

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    I thought they were basically the same?
    Piner covered it. I originally ordered a MG solutions kit, was refunded because i didnt want to switch knuckles/brakes/etc.

    Went with SLR in the end, plenty happy with it.

  18. #18
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    I plan on running the MRT setup this coming year so we will see how it fairs against the other companies

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Press22 View Post
    Glad I'm not the only one that struggled with the tape. LOL
    LOL me too. That tape on the lollipop shaft took me forever!

  20. #20
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    Yeah needless to say it takes me a while to pack up a kit, I really try to make sure you guys get the kit in the same condition that it was packaged.

  21. #21
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    Imr makes an e46 kit, but it’s weird. It converts the front end to basically an s13 wisefab knuckle/coilover. Never seen it advertised anywhere but their Instagram though

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    If you see other kits, post em up. I couldn't find the sketchy ebay kit other than the knuckle adapter that's literally just the adapter. I would like a discussion about the differences between kits. Like the IRP kit seems to put both the tie rod and control arm mounting points farther away from KPI. Isn't that bad? Don't you want your control arm pivot as close to the king pin as possible? I guess just run a higher offset wheel. But that should be known before buying the kit.
    Yeah Im not sure why so many other setups try to mess with the trail and kpi so much. I feel like part of it is they don't want to manufacture their own tapered ball joint pins with the right length to fit through the plate into the factory hole on the knuckle. We do but the pins are expensive to make. So I think they are trying to use off the shelf pins to pad their margin a bit more at the cost of feel and performance. Personally I don't like that approach. IRP doesn't even do their own r&d anyways. They just knock off other companies parts. I would stay away from them at all costs.








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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piner View Post
    Just want to add that the MG kit requires welding a clevis joint to your subframe for their inner ball joint setup to work. It is very sketchy looking. I have attached a couple photos of this so you guys can see what I am talking about. 26940691_10211442601157608_1985554713_n (1).jpg26940389_10211442602557643_2042475638_n.jpg

    I don't want to come off as just talking shit but I do have a good amount of inside info on this stuff since I deal with it everyday now. I'd rather you guys get the information and then decide what you want to buy.

    I wonder what the rationale behind that feature was. Seems like it would add a lot of unnecessary work to an angle kit install.




    In regard to myself, I still have boxes upon boxes of angle blocks and modded control arms sitting in my bedroom. I've just had little motivation to actively promote them. Or anything else, for that matter. But if people are interested, here are my parts & prices (shipping outside of the contiguous USA is extra):

    Angle blocks, includes all necessary hardware to bolt em to your car. Needs offset CABs for reasonable rearward wheel clearance. Extended arms recommended. Your choice of stock-ish or drift-ish ackerman - $250 shipped
    IMG_3059.JPG

    Spherical tie rods. Allows for extra angle (65ish degrees). Extended control arms recommended with these. Requires enlargement of the tie rod hole on the angle blocks. Something I'll do for free, but since I no longer have the ability to powdercoat parts, I won't be able to fix the angle blocks' powdercoat after it chips in the mills' vise. $100 shipped
    IMG_3035.JPG

    Extended control arms. TIG welded with a very aggressive bevel on both the ends of the arm pieces and on the extensions themselves. Comes with Meyle inner BJs and Meyle HD outer BJs installed. Single arm pictured, the price is for a pair. $350 shipped
    IMG_3049.JPG

    Lolipops painted to match the color of my arms/tie rods/blocks, if that tickles your fancy. $20 shipped
    IMG_3041.JPG

    Control arm extensions. The bevel seen on these parts is the same bevel used on my arms. TIG is the process I recommend. That being said, I've had a few guys use 120V MIG machines to extend their arms with these. Not what I'd do, but I guess if you've got the welding skills or zero f*cks given, it works. $40 shipped
    IMG_3069.JPG



    PM me if you've got questions. I still check this forum for PMs every 1-3 days or so
    Last edited by jalopi; 01-16-2018 at 06:40 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikestokman View Post
    Imr makes an e46 kit, but it’s weird. It converts the front end to basically an s13 wisefab knuckle/coilover. Never seen it advertised anywhere but their Instagram though
    Untitled by novablue454, on Flickr

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalopi View Post
    I wonder what the rationale behind that feature was. Seems like it would add a lot of unnecessary work to an angle kit install.
    I really think they gave up on finding a off the shelf inner ball-joint pin for a spherical bearing so they had the idea to have you weld on a clevis. basically with that setup if you touch a wall or rub someones door odds are it will ruin your cross member. Im not sure how they think something like that is acceptable in the first place. It would worry me about the rest of the parts in the kit, seems like they just want to take short cuts.

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