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Thread: Can Timing Chain Guides fail suddenly

  1. #1
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    Can Timing Chain Guides fail suddenly

    My 2000 740iL has 237,000 miles and has never had any noises under the hood. It was always whisper quiet. Yesterday as I was driving home from work the SES came on and I heard a slight ticking noise. When I got home the noise was still there but it seemed to be running fine. I drove it this morning to work (60 miles) and it ran great for the trip at 80 mph. When I got into town the noise sounded worse. I had to run to my other office and about 5 miles into the trip, it started sounding much worse. I was about to pull over when the SES started flashing and it was running rough. I started pulling into a business when it died and when I restarted it sounded very bad. I made into the driveway and it died again. I pushed it into a parking space. When I tried to restart it, the sound was VERY bad. Like metal on metal. I had been driving this car rather than my other one in order to get as much use as I could before something big happened. So, it sounds like I reached that time.

    Can the timing chain guides cause a sudden and catastrophic failure? What else could do it?

  2. #2
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    It sounds like you have it figured out. 237K is pretty good.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleprofessor View Post
    I was about to pull over when the SES started flashing and it was running rough.
    I didnt know SES can start flashing, never seen that (thankfully)!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by acspecialists View Post
    It sounds like you have it figured out. 237K is pretty good.
    So, it probably is a catastrophic failure? Is it time to start salvaging parts off it for my other E38?

  5. #5
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    The answer is in your oil pan. Quite sure you are going to find what's left of your timing chain guide in there.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayorchuck View Post
    The answer is in your oil pan. Quite sure you are going to find what's left of your timing chain guide in there.
    Ok. I think you are probably right. For me, it isn't worth it to fix it. It has 237K, needs a new bumper, has an intermittent radio/cd, has foggy (delaminated) windows, and needs a new door lock actuator for the passenger side door. It has been a fantastic car. I have driven it 90,000 miles and have not had to do much at all. But, I don't think I can justify the expense of the guides. I have a 1999 E38 with much lower miles, so I can drive it. I will be sad to see it go. It has been one of my favorite cars.

  7. #7
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    I am imagining taps being played in the background.
    Sad BMW.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleprofessor View Post
    I am imagining taps being played in the background.
    Sad BMW.jpg

  9. #9
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    The first, quick step is to get your codes read.
    If you run into a P0011 or P0012, most likely it's your timing chain guides.
    Then, like MayorChuck mentioned, drop the oil pan to look for bits of a broken timing chain guide.
    <== Steptronic Sealbeach740
    2000 740i sport: 74k Green/Tan chrome MPars, clear corners, quad brake lights, AIC hi-beams, Hoen fogs, 16x9 screen, MKIV, TFT LCD screen in back, license plate backup camera with "on demand" switch, iPod audio/video (CDC/iPod audio switching, iPod video on 16x9 screen), Basslink, gauge rings, ///M pedals, switched steptronic +/- shifting mode, E46 paddle shifter steering wheel, Dinan engine & tranny software upgrade, DDEs controlled via Euro fog light switch, painted calipers with "BMW" lettering, windows up/sunroof close via remote.

    2003 540i sport: 81k, Sterling grey/grey, MKIV Nav, PDC & CWP - Added license plate backup camera with "on demand" switch, paddle shift steering wheel, windows up/sunroof close via remote, Akebono's, painted calipers with "BMW" lettering, quad brake lights, iPod audio via AUX mode/video via 16x9 screen, BMW TV tuner, ///M pedals & gauge rings.

  10. #10
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    Did you seriously keep driving it? First thought of guides going = turn engine off and stop driving it until diagnosed further or you're asking for trouble. Keep it for parts for the other e38 but that one will most likely have the same demise... 237k is great...

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    When you open lower oilpan, can you put some pictures. There might be some mess.
    Dont Start engine unless want bend valves

  12. #12
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    It's such a shame that these beautiful cars go to scrap yard due to a failure of one, plastic-lined part of the engine...
    Current: 2007 Z4 M Coupe (blue/black)
    Previous: 2001 740iL Sport (black/black), 2000 528i Sport (black/tan), 1995 318is (black/black), 1991 318is (white/black)

  13. #13
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    The problem is that they are so cheap to buy. If you have to have an Indy do chain guides its cheaper to just get a new car. The thing that's always hard to remember is with the car you have you know what's been done. I paid $3000 for my car. Now I'm working through all of the common problems but I know where I stand. If it hasn't been done you will HAVE to do sooner or later there is no escape!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruskii View Post
    It's such a shame that these beautiful cars go to scrap yard due to a failure of one, plastic-lined part of the engine...
    Couldnt agree more. On the other hand it makes ours more unique. I'm not seeing many lately.

  15. #15
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    It went to 237k. That’s not peanuts. Everything has an endpoint, a new set of guides and work to install could get you to 400k. There are far worse engineering crimes out there

  16. #16
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    looks like another one bites the dust. 237k was a good run I'd say

  17. #17
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    Why not have some fun and try fixing it? You have another car, so no rush. You can do pretty well completely renewing it for $800-1000 in parts and some tool rentals and it'll run for another ~150k easy. It's a pretty great feeling putting everything back together at the end and firing that engine. What a sense of accomplishment.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPHES View Post
    It went to 237k. That’s not peanuts. Everything has an endpoint, a new set of guides and work to install could get you to 400k. There are far worse engineering crimes out there
    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    Couldnt agree more. On the other hand it makes ours more unique. I'm not seeing many lately.
    I agree 237K isn't bad. I knew it was a matter of time. I might consider trying to do the work. But, I'm moving and remodeling a house. So, it won't be soon. It would be cool to see if one of these could make it to 400K.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleprofessor View Post
    I agree 237K isn't bad. I knew it was a matter of time. I might consider trying to do the work. But, I'm moving and remodeling a house. So, it won't be soon. It would be cool to see if one of these could make it to 400K.
    Mine will as long as noone smashes into it

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplecty View Post
    Did you seriously keep driving it? First thought of guides going = turn engine off and stop driving it until diagnosed further or you're asking for trouble. Keep it for parts for the other e38 but that one will most likely have the same demise... 237k is great...

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk
    That was my reaction as well when I read the post ...ugh stop ? Maybe a good idea to stop now ? Ok sure just drive it and wait to see what happens next lol

  21. #21
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    yes

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by acspecialists View Post
    The problem is that they are so cheap to buy. If you have to have an Indy do chain guides its cheaper to just get a new car. The thing that's always hard to remember is with the car you have you know what's been done. I paid $3000 for my car. Now I'm working through all of the common problems but I know where I stand. If it hasn't been done you will HAVE to do sooner or later there is no escape!
    Really all E38s are $7-10k cars at this point, if you want them to be somewhat reliable and clean/most things working properly. You can either pay that much for a really well maintained one, or pay less and end up spending that much bringing it up to spec.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aitch View Post
    Really all E38s are $7-10k cars at this point, if you want them to be somewhat reliable and clean/most things working properly. You can either pay that much for a really well maintained one, or pay less and end up spending that much bringing it up to spec.
    Very well said, couldnt agree more.

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