Are E36s prone to hydroplaning?

[samy01]

i know what you mean.

hydroplaning is something else.

[Mike WW]

i know what you mean.

hydroplaning is something else.

OK, it's a relief at least someone knows what I'm talking about. How would you describe it and what would you call it? I mean I don't think I've got traction when that happens.

[Driiven]

I have driven e36s since new. Yes e36s are twitchy in the wet. You get a lot more confidence out of a wide track vehicle period e.g an e39 or e46 Anyone that states otherwise is full of it. I remember runs in limerock back in the late 90s where half the field would be off track in the wet. Also newer chassis will utilize a more advanced traction system and abs pump to offer even more control of the vehicle

[MIKYZZ4]

Can you give a brief summary of all suspension work performed in the past 200k miles(parts replaced)?

Since no reply, I'm going to assume no work done,
and your riding on over 200K mi,20yo suspension bits.
If so, your problem becomes much clearer.
Sure, suspension pieces last a long time, but not that long!

[pbonsalb]

Is the floating or moving sensation coming from the front end or rear end or both?

[samy01]

you just feel the tire working against the water.

[ultimatetester]

I have exactly the same feeling. Soon I’m going to get an aggressive alignment in the hopes of getting this fixed. A buddy of mine had the m3 tower things swapped for extra negative camber and his car drove like a tank!

But I suspect I have additional problems. Steer at 12 o clock most of the times it tries to pull to the right, I countersteer a little to the left to keep going straight, then suddenly the car decides that my small steering to the left will be followed resulting in my car steering left all the sudden. Scary sometimes but I got used to it... no idea what is the cause of that and also happens from left to right... something feels dynamic down there...

[jclausen]

What is the tire brand

[Mike WW]

Since no reply, I'm going to assume no work done,
and your riding on over 200K mi,20yo suspension bits.
If so, your problem becomes much clearer.
Sure, suspension pieces last a long time, but not that long!

Noted on page 1, post 6.

Stock size, currently Sumitomo HTR A/S P02XL, 225/50-16 on there, square, not staggered. Alignment with every set of tires and getting decent life out of them without terrible wear patterns suggest alignment is ok. Front end is ok, I've done the wear prone set of ball joints and the control arm bushings. Surely more wear in there than brand new, but not bad at all. The E39 is much heavier to be sure, but does have a bigger contact patch too so calculating pounds per square inch is difficult. Like I said, it makes no sense.

What is the tire brand

Noted on page 3, post 22

Regarding the discussion about snows, none of them have been snows. Rather VR rating or above all seasons, rated high performance or ultra high performance at Tire Rack and emphatically not a dedicated snow. The other sets were Conti DWS which have gotten excellent reviews and General G max 03, both of which have very good reviews regarding wet performance. The tires have not been some $39.99 K mart special.

[Team Neverlift]

RTABs need to be replaced every 60k per BMW service intervals, and here you are, 200k+, and no mention of doing so. They are $12 each for OEM RTABs, time to replace them, immediately.

[samy01]

where is that written that rtabs need to be replaced every 60k.

[Team Neverlift]

It is generally found as an Inspection/Maintenance II item on service intervals lists. Most people agree you can get almost 100k out of them, but by 200k+.... the trailing arm has so much toe movement, it is likely hitting the chassis, and causing the hydroplane feeling.

[MIKYZZ4]

Simply put,
You need a complete suspension refresh,
as your symptoms and maintenance history suggest.
Time to replace all the worn,tired,20years old>200k miles suspension bushings,
in addition to shocks /struts, and all associated components!
Then you can safely, without worry, be on your merry way down the highway, RAIN or not!

[Mike WW]

Simply put,
You need a complete suspension refresh,
as your symptoms and maintenance history suggest.
Time to replace all the worn,tired,20years old>200k miles suspension bushings,
in addition to shocks /struts, and all associated components!
Then you can safely, without worry, be on your merry way down the highway, RAIN or not!

You may be right, although I'm confident the front is fairly tight and I have done shocks, I haven't really looked at the rear. Dumb question of the day, I've obviously heard of the Rtabs, but looking at videos and looking at parts breakdowns they don't seem to match. Do me a favor and look at the Autohausaz link and tell me which is the imfamous Rtab.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...0Arm%20Bushing

[MIKYZZ4]

Sure, here's the breakdown, Lemfoerder being the OEM quality part, and the one l would purchase:

RTAB
Lemfoerder 33326770786
Meyle HD 33321097009MY
URO Parts 33321097009

LCAB
Lemfoerder 33321136311
Delphi DL-33326771828

[MIKYZZ4]

RTABs are located within these brackets on the vehicle:http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...ng Arm Bracket

[pbonsalb]

I’d put Vorshlag limiters on and use the Z4 split bushings. You can read about it at the Vorshlag website. And again, most people think the shocks are the suspension. But there are about 30 rubber parts as well — ball joints, mounts, end links, and bushings. Neglecting these has led to rtab pockets tearing out, subframe mounting points tearing, engine mounting points tearing, rear shock mounting points tearing, and rear sway bar mounting points tearing in the chassis. Hopefully the OP does not have any of these bigger problems.

[samy01]

he probably just has shitty tires

what even is this sumitomo chingchong stuff, i would get some michelin or something next time to rule out tires

[Mike WW]

Sure, here's the breakdown, Lemfoerder being the OEM quality part, and the one l would purchase:

RTAB
Lemfoerder 33326770786
Meyle HD 33321097009MY
URO Parts 33321097009

LCAB
Lemfoerder 33321136311
Delphi DL-33326771828

RTABs are located within these brackets on the vehicle:http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...ng Arm Bracket

Thanks!

[JDStrickland]

It is generally found as an Inspection/Maintenance II item on service intervals lists. Most people agree you can get almost 100k out of them, but by 200k+.... the trailing arm has so much toe movement, it is likely hitting the chassis, and causing the hydroplane feeling.

This section suggests that an inspection is needed. The same is suggested for Inspection I, by the way.

- - - Updated - - -

While the RTABs can maybe lead to hydroplaning, they would not ONLY lead to hydroplaning. They would contribute to a host of problems all year long.

[Aeko]

Anecdotal, but my first drive in my e36 I noticed it seemed to hydroplane easily. I say anecdotal because of extremely heavy rain, long flat highways, the rear shocks didn't exist, the tires were mismatched and partly bald, the rear subframe bushings were toast, and the alignment was questionable. :P

That being said, having driven a number of vehicles that were prone to hydroplaning (RWD pickups, for example) it makes me curious if the weight distribution and aerodynamics have an effect on the hydroplaning. The aero would be unique to the e36 platform and would possibly explain why there might be issues depending on what people are running: suspension height, etc.

[Mike WW]

Rtabs are likely in need of replacement given their reputation for being a problem child, and there is undoubtedly at least some wear in the rest of it. But it doesn't do anything odd or uncomfortable in the dry, nor any odd noises. Tracks straight, doesn't wander, just goes where I point it. So I doubt there is horrible wear.

[blckstrm]

I just caught up on this whole thread, and I don't think it's the E36 or even your particular car. From the get-go this seemed like a tire issue to me. I think looking at your suspension as the culprit is barking up the wrong tree.

My car had Sumitomos on it when I bought it. I slid off the road in the wet very early on. Those tires - while they looked fantastic for displacing water - were terrible. It was getting late in the season so I got Blizzaks, and never had a problem all winter.

I got Michelin PS2s the following spring, and moved to Texas (no more winter tires). Michelin came out with the Super Sport and I've been getting PSSs ever since.

I have zero rear toe and only a tiny amount of toe in front. I can oversteer easily with a little power, and the car is very eager to change direction, but the car tracks straight and is very solid / predictable. In fact, it's easier to break traction in the dry than in the wet (or at least more progressive. It's smooth in the dry but I get axle hop in the wet).

Even at high speeds (75+) I only get hydroplaning when the tires are well past the wear bars.

I don't know if you can find a PSS (maybe an AS3?) in your size, but I'd look at tires first. I get Michelins and have loved them. They have incredible treadwear for the grip they deliver (well, not the PS2s, but the PSSs deliver their promised 30k miles - which is great for a tire in this class), and wet traction is also fantastic. They do get slick when it gets cold, but so does anything else in this class. An AS3 may behave better in cooler weather, but I haven't run them.

But I'd look at tires as the problem.

[MIKYZZ4]

True,but I really believe it is a combination of the two > old tires & old, worn suspension components.

[pbonsalb]

The OP is pretty hard to convince.