Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.

    Front Alignment Out After Front Axle Replacement

    Thank you all ahead of time for your help!

    THE PROBLEM:
    The front alignment is out steering is off some degrees. The lights on the dash indicate the steering is out (confirmed - not speed sensors). When at stop lights there is now a noticeable shake (not when in park, only when in drive and pressing the breaks).

    THE STORY:
    This alignment problem came after replacing the front axles on both sides. There was only one thing that happened, but I am not sure it could have caused this. When trying to pry the driver side off I noticed that the pry-bar did press up against the inner tie rod a couple of times. Then the other thing, I had to take off the engine under cover which also is bolted to the sway bar.

    THE QUESTION:
    Did my pressing on the tie rod cause this?
    Can it be fixed without alignment or new tie rid (The old tie rod is rust welded at the adjuster and can not be adjusted)?
    Did I damage the rack?
    Was it caused by taking off the engine under cover and shifting, inadvertently, the sway bar?
    Is a new tie rod (inner and outer) the only solution?
    Why does it shake now and how do I fix that?

    THE WHAT:
    2001 X5 E53

    Again, thank you!
    Last edited by LIOTB; 01-05-2018 at 01:40 PM. Reason: grammar and change title, etc.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    THE ANSWERS:
    Did my pressing on the tie rod cause this? - An impact on the steering rack may cause the internal damage to the rack. Depends on who hard did you push the pry-bar against the inner tie-rod. But it definitely made your alignment worse.


    Can it be fixed without alignment or new tie rid - All front axel jobs should end up in the alignment shop. Very sensitive area. I go to check the alignment after I hit a pothole or parked too close to the curb and then rubbed the tire (not even the rim) again the said curb.


    Did I damage the rack? - Most likely no.


    Was it caused by taking off the engine undercover and shifting, inadvertently, the sway bar? - Definitely not. Sway bar helps to reduce the body roll of a vehicle during fast cornering or over road irregularities. So constant shifting up/down and left/right is in its nature. The engine under cover (metal plate that is held by 4 bolts) couldn't make any impact on the steering - it's so heavy, it falls straight down the moment you unbolt the last nut.


    Is a new tie rod (inner and outer) the only solution? - Is there any play? Jack up the front of the car and wiggle the wheel left/right. If there is a play and your suspension is fine, means you damaged the rack. But pay attention! The play may be caused by a damaged strut (6 and 10)

    Screenshot 2018-01-05 11.46.12.png


    Why does it shake now and how do I fix that? - Shake is always caused by something coming loose. Whether it's worn out strut, bushing, ball joint, or damaged steering rods.

    You said the lights on the dash indicates the steering is out. Did you reset the active steering system by turning the steering wheel all the way from side to side a few times with the engine running?

    Screenshot 2018-01-05 11.55.47.png

    One last thing: does your traction control still work? Or the warning sign in the center of the dash is also came up and doesn't go away?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Hello Rokolya87,

    thank you for your thorough reply! It is what I needed.

    THE ANSWERS:
    ~1. Did my pressing on the tie rod cause this? - An impact on the steering rack may cause the internal damage to the rack. Depends on who hard did you push the pry-bar against the inner tie-rod. But it definitely made your alignment worse. Did I damage the rack? - Most likely no.

    Phew, good to know! Well, there were a couple of times I really went after it until I noticed I was pressing against the bottom of the boot that covers the inner tie rod. Now when I say pressing up against it, it was not at 90 degrees to it, but parallel with (direction of tie rod movement). It was near where it mates with the wrack, I noticed that the boot was torn a little underneath. This is when I took off the under cover ("Reinforcement plate" - #3 on the diagram). Just to make sure we are talking about the same things it is held on with 6 bolts and 4 of those also hold the sway bar at the same time.

    ~2. Is a new tie rod (inner and outer) the only solution? - Is there any play? Jack up the front of the car and wiggle the wheel left/right. If there is a play and your suspension is fine, means you damaged the rack. But pay attention! The play may be caused by a damaged strut (6 and 10)

    Why does it shake now and how do I fix that? - Shake is always caused by something coming loose. Whether it's worn out strut, bushing, ball joint, or damaged steering rods.

    If there is no play, then it's just the tie rod, correct? I will test this this week and get back to you, but I didn't see anything when I tested that before letting the it down originally.

    Oh, good to know. Thank you for pointing out those control arms, I was wondering if it could be the front control arm (#6). That also might account for the shake, as in my research thus far, most often shake is attributed to the bushing on #6, but it was suggested that breaking (coming to a stop) would cause shake too, but that does not happen.

    ~3. Can it be fixed without alignment or new tie rid - All front axle jobs should end up in the alignment shop. Very sensitive area. I go to check the alignment after I hit a pothole or parked too close to the curb and then rubbed the tire (not even the rim) again the said curb.

    Oh, really, I figured all of that was more robust, that will be watched closer in the future. I have replaced axles and tie rods before and the alignment always came out unaffected, but that was on another car.


    ~4. Was it caused by taking off the engine undercover and shifting, inadvertently, the sway bar? - Definitely not. Sway bar helps to reduce the body roll of a vehicle during fast cornering or over road irregularities. So constant shifting up/down and left/right is in its nature. The engine under cover (metal plate that is held by 4 bolts) couldn't make any impact on the steering - it's so heavy, it falls straight down the moment you unbolt the last nut.

    Good, that's what I thought/hoped, thank you for confirming that for me. Eventually, I gave in and had to take it off to punch out the axles from behind (then changed the diff fluid). (When I wrote this I couldn't remember what it was called, but it's the reinforcement plate, #3 on the diagram).

    ~5. You said the lights on the dash indicates the steering is out. Did you reset the active steering system by turning the steering wheel all the way from side to side a few times with the engine running?

    One last thing: does your traction control still work? Or the warning sign in the center of the dash is also came up and doesn't go away?

    The lights that came on where break, traction control, and abs. They reappeared each time I got in after driving a block. However, since writing this thread the lights don't come on now. However, the steering wheel is still offset a few degrees. The computer said there was nothing wrong with the speed sensors, but something did come back with the steering sensor. That particular light didn't appear. Oh, interesting, that resets the sensor to go from lock to lock a few times.

    Again, thank you!!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    That is correct, “Reinforcement plate” - #3 on the diagram. It has 6 bolts, not 4, my bad.


    Also, check bushing #7, it’s usually the first one to go and has its effect on the alignment. Even when you change your tires, your first stop should be an alignment shop. It will let your tires live longer. The ride will be more pleasant, and the mechanic will show you if there are any damaged/worn suspension parts like bushings, ball joint, struts, etc. Earlier you catch it; less damage will be done to other components. In the long run, it turns out cheaper.


    There is absolutely no way you could replace the tie rods, and the alignment wasn’t affected. Not in this Universe. You might not notice it, but after 10k miles you will see the effect on the front tires.


    If the steering wheel is offset a few degrees, this is clearly a job for the alignment shop. Go there first - they straighten it up. Let them check the rack for damage. Pretty sure there is none, so all that will go away right there in the shop.
    Last edited by Rokolya87; 01-06-2018 at 05:48 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Thank you for the follow up!

    That is correct, “Reinforcement plate” - #3 on the diagram. It has 6 bolts, not 4, my bad.
    No worries, just wanted to make sure.

    Also, check bushing #7, it’s usually the first one to go and has its effect on the alignment. Even when you change your tires, your first stop should be an alignment shop. It will let your tires live longer. The ride will be more pleasant, and the mechanic will show you if there are any damaged/worn suspension parts like bushings, ball joint, struts, etc. Earlier you catch it; less damage will be done to other components. In the long run, it turns out cheaper.
    That's wise. Thank you for the suggestion.

    Right, Thank you for clarifying that, that's what I meant when I referenced #6, I meant the bushing, sorry I wasn't clear. Your confirming that helps a lot. So, I will do as you say, I will check for play and also see if there is significant damage to the bushing. (Checked it before I buttoned everything up, but that doesn't mean I didn't miss something.) I will get that tie-rod ordered right away as well.

    There is absolutely no way you could replace the tie rods, and the alignment wasn’t affected. Not in this Universe. You might not notice it, but after 10k miles you will see the effect on the front tires.
    I thought it was funny too, but after I did each one, I took it in for an alignment and they came back and confirmed that I had done what I said. They said there was nothing wrong with the alignment. I was surprised myself. That happened each time. Well, it caught up to me now with this car. The other one (nissan sentra) never had residual problems even though it was harder to work on than the bmw.

    If the steering wheel is offset a few degrees, this is clearly a job for the alignment shop. Go there first - they straighten it up. Let them check the rack for damage. Pretty sure there is none, so all that will go away right there in the shop.
    I took it to them at the very beginning of all this and they said that the tie-rod was rust-welded at the adjuster and they couldn't get it to adjust. So, that's when I said I would purchase a new one (inner/outer) and replace it. However, I wanted to confirm everything before I tear into again. Just to make sure it wasn't the rack and other things as well - this will be the second time tearing into it and a third would be undesirable. Just get it all done this time.

    Again, your insights and suggestions have put my mind at ease and helped me narrow down what I need to do, saving me precious time and money!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    That is some incredible luck with the tie rods on that nissan!))) Every time I replace the tie rods, I try to set them the way the old ones were. Never came out right. Not even once.

    I might have missed the part of the story when you mentioned rust-welded rods in your post. Before you ordered, check the prices here fcpeuro.com. You don't need BMW brand, buy OE. The same quality with BMW logo scraped off. I tried many suppliers; they turned out to be the cheapest and best quality.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Hey Rokolya87,

    I know, it was crazy, I expected to have to get an alignment after each time I replaced the tie rods, ball joints, and axles. Blew me away. Blessings, is all I can say.

    Super, thank you for the suggestion on the website and the guidance in the purchase. I recently found them, and it's good to have a positive referral.

    I will get back to you next week after I check as you suggested.

    Thank you for all of your time and efforts!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Hello Rokolya87,

    I did as you said, and there is no significant play on either side, (I changed both axles). That takes care rack damage I believe.

    As to the shaking, however, the bushings are quite old, which I noticed when I first started working on it that they may need to be replaced in the near future. When changing the axles there were only three bolts total (one on one side and two on the other) removed in order to displace the knuckles to remove the axles. Those were tightened down according to specs. I didn't see anything loss to answer for the shake when I stop at lights.

    Any other thoughts on the shake?

    Thank you again!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    Good morning!

    I did as you said, and there is no significant play on either side, (I changed both axles). That takes care rack damage I believe. - When I mentioned "a play"
    I was referring to a steering rack and/or struts. Not axels. Axels should have some slack since vehicle front wheels turn and move up and down.
    Screenshot 2018-01-09 06.50.50.png


    I marked all the potential weak spots that can cause shaking with red on diagrams below.

    Screenshot 2018-01-09 07.04.23.png Screenshot 2018-01-09 07.02.12.png

    As to the shaking, however, the bushings are quite old, which I noticed when I first started working on it that they may need to be replaced in the near future. When changing the axles there were only three bolts total (one on one side and two on the other) removed in order to displace the knuckles to remove the axles. Those were tightened down according to specs. I didn't see anything loss to answer for the shake when I stop at lights. - Must be the bushings (7) then. I recently replaced all four bottom struts and the ball joints (15); they live only 2-3 years, get more abuse than other parts of the X5 suspension and make a significant effect on alignment and constant shaking when acceleration and/or braking. Here is a good set made by Lemforder (BMW OEM supplier) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-x5-e53cakit-l

    Any other thoughts on the shake? - Hard to say with ruined bushings. They are the most probable cause. Are there any dashboard lights still on?

    Thank you again![/QUOTE]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    Also, how old are your rotors? If there is a significant wear and brake pads already made their own visible track on the surface, you might need new brakes. Touch the rotor with your finger, if the surface is rough and there is a little bump on the edge. Rotors are done and will cause the shaking.

    1bI8Ql.jpg

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Hello Rokolya87,

    thank you for that detailed and time consuming response, which was most helpful.

    Sorry again for my miss communication, I only meant as a side note that I had changed both axles. Yes, I understood you meant the other components. After checking as you suggested the vibration has noticeably reduced. Which I found strange. However, before I started this project there was no shaking at stop lights. I wonder if I finished off those bushings when I deflected the knuckles to remove and install the axles.

    Thank you for taking your valuable time in marking all of those. Yes, I checked those and the only thing that seems like it could use replacing is #7. Everything else seamed stout and no boots or bushings split or torn. (Just as a note the only things unbolted were #12 on both sides. And, #14 (associated with #15) only on the passenger side.)

    Yes, in my research so far that is also what I found is that #7 is the key part in most of these scenarios. Really only 3 years!?! Wow! These then need to be changed.

    No, the lights on the dash no longer appear.

    I ordered a new tie rod (inner and outer) and now that I did that, I am debating if I should do that for both sides.

    When I had the vehicle first checked they said the breaks and rotors were in good condition. Good thought though, I actually had not thought of that at this point. There is no shaking in the process of breaking, only when at a standstill at a stoplight.

    Again, thank you for your valuable time on my behalf!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    1. Just as a note the only things unbolted were #12 on both sides. - Did you tighten these bolts with the wheels on the ground? If not, you will need to unbolt them, release the tension. Then tighten them again. Same goes for all the bushings. A lot of people do that mistake. NEVER TIGHTEN SUSPENSION BOLTS WITH YOUR CAR UP IN THE AIR. Bolt everything in place and only after you put your wheels on and put the car down, so the weight of the car will position the bushings like they should be, only then you may tighten it. But only the bushings, not ball joints.

    You think why the suspension mechanics have a different lift equipment? So they can bolt/unbolt with the wheels on. It is very important. See the difference?

    BMW-Melbourne-vehicle-hoist-project.jpg download.jpeg

    2. I ordered a new tie rod (inner and outer) and now that I did that, I am debating if I should do that for both sides. - No debate. Both sides indeed.
    3. There is no shaking in the process of breaking, only when at a standstill at a stoplight. - Wait a sec. So it only vibrates when X5 is at a standstill? Not when you slow down? This means your engine mounts and/or transmission mounts are torn.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Hello Rokolya,

    Wow, it's a good thing I came back to check the thread. I had replied a while ago (the day you responded), I guess I didn't click reply or left the tab before it finished posting. Sorry, I didn't see this until now.

    Again, thank you for helping me with this can of worms, you have been most generous!


    1. Yes, I tightened them only when it was on the ground.

    2. The new tie rod assemblies (both sides, +boots) were ordered and installed. Now all I need is the alignment.

    3. Correct. Oh boy, so what do you suggest in making sure this is the case? Until I hear back I will inspect the mounts to see.

    Thank you again!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    Check out this thread - https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...-steering.html

    Most likely mounts are toast then.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Thank you for getting back so quickly.

    I will check that thread right now. When I did a test on the mounts, at least the engine mounts, they were fine. So, maybe the transmission mounts or maybe the front control arms (#6). The front control arms, after having a closer look at them while installing the tie rods, look like they need to be changed.

    The vibration is not in the steering at all at any point. It feel great especially after the new axles and tie rods. The vibration is heard and felt in the doors as things rattle and shake at stop lights. There is nothing in reverse, drive, or starting or even when in the process of breaking.

    Again thank you.
    Last edited by LIOTB; 01-20-2018 at 10:53 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    The front control arms will not shake the car at a standstill. The transmission mounts will only kick when you release the brake and touch the accelerator pedal. The moment you load it with torque or let go of it.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Hummm, I wonder what it is then? Because the that shake was not there before I started this suspension and axle work. In the other thread, one cause was listed as the axle or the drive shaft. How would one test those?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Palo Alto
    Posts
    120
    My Cars
    1996 750iL and 2001 X5
    I'm out of ideas, to be honest. I'll stop by my mechanic next week for some tune-ups. Will ask him. He is our bimmer ninja. Should come up with some ideas.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    2001 BMW X5 E53 3.0i.
    Thank you for all of your effort and time in this. It means a lot. That's thoughtful of you, yes, if you think of it I would really appreciate that to see what he thinks.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-04-2015, 10:05 PM
  2. Engine's out...figured I'd change the steering box...
    By SeanH in forum 1988 - 1994 (E32)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-02-2011, 08:03 PM
  3. Front end shimmy after front end replacement :(
    By steevieweevie in forum 1988 - 1996 (E34)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-22-2008, 12:04 AM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-06-2008, 07:15 PM
  5. Car started...then slowly died out. Can't start up the car now
    By entranceive in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-09-2006, 03:54 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •