Shifter Disengaged

[cheapE46]

I got stranded on the road side for the first time today. I tried to downshift from 4th to third and the shifter lost all the tension. Now the shifter is moving about freely like the linkage is not connected any more.

Sine I was broke down by the side of a rural highway and since it is negative eleventy billion right now, I am just having it towed to a local indy shop.
I will post updates as this saga unfolds, so stay tuned

[jclausen]

Sounds like the linkage let go

[cheapE46]

I replaced all the shifter linkage washers and clips roughly 2000 miles ago. Oh well, one of the clips must have let go

[cheapE46]

Got a call from my mechanic this morning. The little clip that holds the straight selector rod failed. I replaced the clip with a brand new one only about 200 miles ago, so naturally I am not happy about it failing.
I remember the new one that came with the TCS rebuild kit looked different from the one that came off my car, but at that time I assumed that the new one must have been an updated design.

It is number 6 in the picture below:

Shifter.PNG

[cheapE46]

So the grand total to fix everything is... $495.


I am being told that the battery froze overnight is now dead and needs to be replaced at $210. I am calling bullshit on that since, my car sits outside overnight semi-regularly at negative temperatures and have never failed to start in the morning.

There's $100 or so for oil change also included in the quote. I am not sure why I need the oil change since I did it only 1500 miles ago. I am expecting a call from the shop owner shortly to see why I need the oil change.

All in all, I am now cursing myself for not getting the car towed to my home, where I could take care of the shifter linkage for like $5 and not be taken to the cleaners to a half a grand!!

[cheapE46]

Okay this shit sundae is now complete with the dingle berry on the top

Total damage $558 (incl. tax)

Apparently my battery froze and did not have enough juice to crank it but while they tried starting it apparently the fuel pump dumped too much gas into it. Which then, I am being told, went into gas making it necessary to get a fresh oil change

So $200 for the battery, $60 for diagnosis, $60 for installing battery and checking electrical system, $60 to fix the shifter clip, $120 for oil and filter. Plus I got a free lecture on how my PCV solution is about to kill my engine with too much pressure.

Oh, also they said that the aftermarket clip is to blame for the failure

Any thoughts on if it is at all possible have the gas mix into engine oil, if we try to crank for too long?

[adm750]

holy cow Cheape46...this whole thing sucks biz-alls.....

yes, batt can freeze...we know this, but like you said...the car sits outside at times and has dealt with that before...so I call a bit of bullshit on that one...

(how old is that battery btw ???)

here's my guess - probably wrong, but here goes....

You posted yesterday (after 6pm) that you broke down...and were just getting it towed to the indy shop....so they did not look at this thing last night.

They started it this morning to bring it inside to look at the shifter issue (I know the car won't select a gear, but it's easier to sit inside the car with power steering operational while your bro's are out in the cold pushing it into the bay....) then the tech shut it off, racked it, and they called you about the clip. You posted that diagnosis at 1102am today.

Next, I bet they didn't have that clip....they started the car to push it out to the lot awaiting said clip....and then shut it off again....

so....if I am anywhere near on track....right now you probably have two cold starts with ZERO warm-up, in gazillion-below-zero temps, so the ECU is throwing fuel at it like you've got a free source for that $#!t.

You get another call...stating your battery froze ??? and you need an oil change...???

The beginnings of what winds up being, (very eloquently described btw...) a 'shit sundae with dingle berry on top' when..?? ....you guessed it.....after all those jokers returned from lunch. You post the findings at 132pm...!! Because this is after the parts guy has returned to the shop with that damned clip, tech went to start the car again (so his buddies can do the hard work..) and it floods...he cranks till your starter reaches a temperature similar to the core of the earth, and there's your source of excess fuel in the oil...and the trashed battery.

How'd they get it started in the morning to diagnose it...?? 'cause my money is on the fact that they didn't diagnose that shit out on the lot....nor did they push it into the shop without firing it up...not in that weather....and neither time...!

Timeline doesn't add up....but them not wanting to own the fact they flooded the car and smoked the battery does. Show me the batt with the blown out sides from freezing (and possibly cracked case) and I'll retract it all.

tony

- - - Updated - - -

not to mention...my Grand Marquis has been out in this single digit weather for a week....I started it this morning just fine....6 deg F. outside

[cheapE46]

I am very much convinced that they fucked up my gas in oil situation. Shouldn't they know better than keep cranking the car until it floods everything?
As for the battery, unfortunately, I am not sure how old the battery was, and I also knew that it was a smaller one than what an e39 should have, so maybe changing the battery would have been required in not too far in the future, but $210 for a battery and then $60 for diagnosis and install is highway robbery IMHO.

I have known and done business with the owner of the shop for a very long time now and he has always been very honest and fair. And I know they were super duper busy today because of the long weekend etc. so they kind of did a favor to turn around everything quickly, but I still can't get over the fact that the actual fix for what broke yesterday was no more than $60 and then everything else was just bull. Needless to say that shop is not going to get my business anymore.

[adm750]

I have known and done business with the owner of the shop for a very long time now and he has always been very honest and fair.

This is a key piece of info here....(plus what you said regarding the battery...)

With this being the case, I would be reluctant to discard the relationship entirely...yet. I would reach out to that person and explain your dissatisfaction with the overall process. Tell him the reasons that you feel things aren't really adding up. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he was not policing the output as he may usually do.

The battery could be suspect and it sounds like you are on deck for having it replaced, but just not wanting to get soaked over the deal. I think with some open, honest discussions, you two could re-negotiate that repair bill...quite a bit. Maybe you take the parts and he fades the labor for anything outside just the shifter repair. I feel he should assume the cost of the oil service as well since it sounds like it was the result of poor practice or inexperience. ie...who did he have working on the car...??? A seasoned vet will most likely NOT make that mistake...but a rookie could. And I (as the manager of several shops...) would consider that mistake a 'cost of training'...and NOT pass it along to my clients..

If he's reluctant...then you know what to do moving forward...

[cheapE46]

Man, this is such a sound advice!
After mulling over it for a long time, I think I will talk to him tomorrow about the oil service, but not push too much if he doesn't budge.
At least, he would know of my displeasure with this situation.

[adm750]

Good deal man...I sure hope you two can come to some resolution that is mutually acceptable. It just seems that no one reviewed the situation from start to finish and maybe the owner will get a chance to do just that when you discuss this with him tomorrow. Write down your notes, and the timeline of events, so this doesn't get guided off track during the conversation. I would also do this in person if at all possible.

You don't sound like an unreasonable person so don't worry about pushing back...own what you feel is yours and be diligent about having them assume ownership of everything you feel is theirs. Make sure to express your overall satisfaction with their service for many years up to this point as that is very important to any worthy shop owner/manager.

Plus...despite how busy they were, and the fact they worked you in, doesn't constitute doing you a 'favor'...you are exchanging real money for a service. Tight schedules, and helping you by fitting you in has zero leeway for not doing a sound job. If they were truly doing you a favor, he'd be charging you what I assume to be a half hours worth of shop time ($60) plus the cost of the clip for that issue alone...and the rest would be discussed and explained thoroughly.

We would charge .5 hrs to replace a battery, which is probably where your $60 diag and install charge was calculated from, but..there is another $60 diag fee in there which I assume is related to the shifter issue. I look at this and say "$60 to diagnose a missing clip...?? It took the tech 30 minutes to understand that ?? " Basically it had to be racked twice and the tech is being a dildo trying to get his diag time. Sometimes situations such as these are just the cost of doing business and techs and managers need to accept those as such. I understand a flat fee of $60 to look at anything..and if that be the rules, then that be the rules but thinking is required when you justify billing and rules can be adjusted to suit the actual situation.

Now...before everyone who turns wrenches for a living shreds me alive for that statement ...I've never heard a tech come back and say..."hey bossman, paying me 2.5 hrs for front pads and rotors is just way too much...I knocked that out in 1.2 so go ahead and trim down what you were going to pay me...". I am all about techs getting paid their time...which is why I paid them their productivity rate when asking them to training other techs. (meaning... if I asked one of my guys that normally worked at 160% productivity to train another tech for an hour...then I paid the tech doing the training 1.6hrs for that hour he spent helping the other guy learn because that's what he would normally have earned had he not been training someone else....)

If I am right about what happened, as a shop manager, I would be obliged to accept $60 labor plus a clip to fix your shifter, and the cost of the battery only from you. I would have to assume the other expenses as cost of doing business.

Good luck with the discussion and please do report back the end result.

ps...
I was going to delete some of what I wrote here since I wasn't there to see what went on, and I'm not here to hack at a shop I don't know about their charges....but I left it all just to give you insight as to the overall thought process behind my ideas, so sorry it's a bit wordy, and maybe even a bit out of line...I just hope it helps you and the shop reach a win-win.

[cheapE46]

Hi adm70, thank you very much for taking time to share your insights in such details. People like you make this a great forum.

[adm750]

...probably too much insight...haha... but you got it boss...thank you for the kind words

[cheapE46]

So here is the fresh update.
I spoke to the shop owner this morning, explained it to him that I feel that oil change was necessitated by their staff's negligence. The shop owner was willing to eat the cost of oil change and has offered to do my next oil change for free. At this point I am happy with this with deal and don't see the need for asking for a refund of the diagnosis charges or anything else.

Thanks adm70 for your advice, I think having the conversation with the shop owner this morning not only got me a better deal but also saved my long relationship with the shop.

[adm750]

Hey CE46 ! that's Awesome !!

Sounds like a worthwhile discussion was had, and pleased that you came to a mutual agreement regarding amending the charges.

Sounds like a very fair deal to me. You are happy with the results (which is key..!!), plus you have a shop owner that is interested in keeping you as a client moving forward. A free oil change in the future is not just a give-away to appease a customer....it's an invitation back....which is a GREAT sign.

Glad this worked out my friend....

take care and stay warm....

tony

[cheapE46]

Yay! All's well that end's well -- or some stuff like that.
My little warrior is happy to be back on the road:

20180101_165018.jpg

[StephenVA]

Gee, reasonable outcomes due to reasonable approaches to common business issues through a rational conversation. Congrats to all involved and drive safe!

[adm750]

Gee, reasonable outcomes due to reasonable approaches to common business issues through a rational conversation. Congrats to all involved and drive safe!

haha....amazing isn't it Stephen..?? Better than some people's tactics.... Most people would have rallied up a bunch of @$$holes this doesn't affect, burned the f%$!#ng business down, and had a riot in the streets to resolve this...

I wanted to be an Ombudsman (sp?) with BMWCCA, or something like that, after I got out of the business (I'd still do it but I thought you needed to actually be an attorney or some shit...I need to take the time to investigate that further...).

I saw so many gaps like this in the service industry, and SO many disgruntled customers (not that I know what a gruntled customer looks like...lol..), that I thought I could help them in some way. Plus...a shop worth it's salt should learn from the experience as well. Just like CheapE's case....that shop should have seen they were rowing this boat full of holes with just one oar, but you can't always see the picture when you are inside the frame. I totally understand...it happens. It's just what happens after that makes or breaks relationships and guides future business.

[cheapE46]

I am totally stealing this:

you can't always see the picture when you are inside the frame

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

On the other side of the coin, how many times have they done this, and gotten away with it.....

[StephenVA]

NOW now, don't break up a happy ending you whiner.....

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Hey! Somebody had to break up the party before the happy endings commenced, You almost soon to be fruits will thank me later.

[adm750]

haha...It was a happy ending wasn't it Stephen..!! Not the happy ending you get in a Japanese massage parlor but a happy ending regardless...!

This type of story was standard fare from many shops....indies as well as dealers. They would do shit to a car, then hand the customer a bill expecting it to be paid like it was some right they earned... and a lot of times w/o authorization...! They would tell the car owner "...well...we had to do this and this and it wound up costing xxxxx.....here's your bill...." And for whack bullshit like CheapE went through....!! .... Really ??? How the @$#!$ can you do that to someone and still sleep at night...!!???

We could sit for days while I told you guys stories of this nature. It's like they have no bedside manner. Those people are obviously not correlating what they are doing with how they would want someone treating their mom...or their sister...or their dad....or their brother.....! Think people...think!!

I'm sure this has happened before with these guys...and when I first chimed in, it sounded to me like a ham-and-egg'er of a technician passed along piss-poor information to the advisor (he either did it to cover his ass, or he's incapable of fixing a sandwich let alone a car...), and the advisor wasn't questioning (and therefore not truly understanding...!!!) why they were trying to sell all of this stuff to CheapE.

Don't worry Snotty - I agree with you - people do suck... I just like to hold hope that they can, and do, learn...

[itsbrokeagain]

Glad to see the situation resolved. And Adm750 I worked in the industry for the better part of 14 years and still do side work for a few of my best clients. I've seen many many horror stories committed by my service advisors and got thrown under the bus by them for something they did, and had the customer looking at me like I was the evil person. One of the reasons I left and now just do things on my own.

It's sad really. So many holes that could be plugged. But the shops that are watertight make it big in this industry.

[adm750]

Glad to see the situation resolved. And Adm750 I worked in the industry for the better part of 14 years and still do side work for a few of my best clients. I've seen many many horror stories committed by my service advisors and got thrown under the bus by them for something they did, and had the customer looking at me like I was the evil person. One of the reasons I left and now just do things on my own.
It's sad really. So many holes that could be plugged. But the shops that are watertight make it big in this industry.

not an uncommon story at all.

It's a tough racket, and one you cannot go at alone. You need quality people in all positions...porters, techs, advisors, greeters, parts dept, sales.... Despite the best efforts, it still managed to gray more hairs than I care to share...haha.

There were a couple key ideas I carried with me and conveyed to all the people at the shops I worked at.

1. ...You're either part of the solution or part of the problem. Pick which side of the fence do you want to be on, get your ass there immediately (before I decide which side you're on...), then go put your name on your work...
2. ....I don't care who's right...I care what's right....
   

No matter what, I would always rather make a mistake that errors on the side of the customer, than one that errors on the side of the business....