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[milKt]

The SC record for a US spec E36M3 is about 500/400 on a Dynojet in SAE.

Please provide the thread
so we can be reminded of the antics.

[GG///M3]

Please provide the thread
so we can be reminded of the antics.

That would be an RK tuned car with e85 on Max Psi’s low reading dyno. It had an AA Sc kit with upgraded blower from the e92 m3 spec Sc kit.

Made over 500whp by one of the best tuners out there.


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[pbonsalb]

Dave Villanova did it on 93 pump in about 2007 or 2008 with a NickG 60 lb tune and a Vortech T Trim at about 18 psi on an S52. Someone else did it in about 2013 or 2014 on E85 with an Vortech S Trim at about 15 psi. And I think later there was the Rotrex C38-92 equipped car mentioned above but I cannot recall the fuel or engine mods. As I recall all were in the low 500 rwhp range. I don’t know of any cars that have done better—it does not seem to be worth the effort and expense when the turbo makes that sort of power so much easier and more reliably.

[GG///M3]

Look at that tq


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[GG///M3]

Dave Villanova did it on 93 pump in about 2007 or 2008 with a NickG 60 lb tune and a Vortech T Trim at about 18 psi on an S52. Someone else did it in about 2013 or 2014 on E85 with an Vortech S Trim at about 15 psi. And I think later there was the Rotrex C38-92 equipped car mentioned above but I cannot recall the fuel or engine mods. As I recall all were in the low 500 rwhp range. I don’t know of any cars that have done better—it does not seem to be worth the effort and expense when the turbo makes that sort of power so much easier and more reliably.

Yea there were a lot of things supposedly behind those numbers. Some say inflated. . . . .

The 527whp/399wtq setup was indeed on e85 .

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[milKt]

Yea there were a lot of things supposedly behind those numbers. Some say inflated. . . . .

KorreCT.
The collusion among BF.c/FI "politicians"...also verified.

but, we all start with SuperChargers, it seems.
Then we evolve.

We are DEVO
D.E.V.O.

[pbonsalb]

I don’t know that Villanova’s numbers were inflated. NickG was tuning it on the dyno and his 511/399 Dynojet was at 18 psi on 93 pump. My car was very similarly modded and I did 463/368 SAE Dynojet at 16 psi with just a prototype tune and no dyno tuning. I think with 2 more psi and dyno tuning I would have been in that same low 500 rwhp range.

With an E85 tune, 5-10% better seems likely.

Maybe the new guy will dump a bunch of money into a centrifugal system and do even better. I believe in progress so I think the old numbers can be beaten. But I don’t think we are going to see 600 rwhp centrifugals replacing turbos.

[Butters Stoch]

I don’t know that Villanova’s numbers were inflated. NickG was tuning it on the dyno and his 511/399 Dynojet was at 18 psi on 93 pump. My car was very similarly modded and I did 463/368 SAE Dynojet at 16 psi with just a prototype tune and no dyno tuning. I think with 2 more psi and dyno tuning I would have been in that same low 500 rwhp range.

With an E85 tune, 5-10% better seems likely.

Maybe the new guy will dump a bunch of money into a centrifugal system and do even better. I believe in progress so I think the old numbers can be beaten. But I don’t think we are going to see 600 rwhp centrifugals replacing turbos.

Maybe not a centrifugal, but I think MisterM52 will show us all when he slaps down over 600whp with a blower you can get in a salvage yard. He has promised to do so.

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[GG///M3]

KorreCT.
The collusion among BF.c/FI "politicians"...also verified.

but, we all start with SuperChargers, it seems.
Then we evolve.

We are DEVO
D.E.V.O.

CorreCT




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[maharaj1]

^ i think turbo guys look at SC guys like a SC guy looks at N/A guys.

I would agree that most people are like that. I personally try not to look at other people Turbo or N/A guys any differently. I respect peoples builds for what they are. I used to have a customer who had a fully built N/A E36 M3 Sedan that had literally every bolt on upgrade available plus custom bottom and top end work that absolutely flew for an N/A car. Now granted a turbo car would have walked away from it if they were to line up but that's not what his build was about and I respected that while many others in the community at that time mocked him for spending more than they spent on their turbo cars only to get less power. At the end of the day it was his car and he built it the way he wanted to. If I wanted to go turbo trust me I would but right now it is not the direction I want to take with this car.

The SC record for a US spec E36M3 is about 500/400 on a Dynojet in SAE. It could be higher but few looking for big power bother with the supercharger anymore since the turbo works so much better. E85 will help, a dedicated drive big crank pulley in 8 rib (which makes fitting a good puller fan a challenge) will reduce the belt slip that you run into spinning the blower to its limit, multiple bypass valves to prevent damage, a large air to water or air to air intercooler, and a big blower like a Ti Trim that has plenty of overhead to still put down big rwhp while some of its output is being soaked up compensating for its drag on the crankshaft, and good coolant and oil cooling.

A few non BMW supercharger owners have played around with increasing torque and midrange power by spinning the blower much faster and bleeding off boosted air at higher rpm so boost does not go too high. It’s not very efficient and requires a blow through hfm, but it changes the boost curve. Normally a centrifugal makes peak boost only at peak rpm, and makes only the square root of peak boost at half peak rpm. For example, I made 16 psi at 7000 rpm but less than 4 psi at 3500 rpm. A turbo would make 16 at 3500 and 16 at 7000, and run away from the centrifugal car.

I’d like to see what happens with the M122 Eaton positive displacement supercharger project one member is developing as a partial kit. The PD blower will make full boost even sooner than the turbo and carry it right through to redline, but it drags on the crank like a centrifugal. You can get an idea how it might do by reading Tanks95 thread — he has a modified twin screw system that has been a work in progress over the years. Last I recall, he was in the 500+ rwhp range with torque into the 400s.

That is what most of research/reading has uncovered. I have also heard of people doing the boost bleed method but like you already stated its not very efficient and not worth the trouble. My setup will be aftercooled and will more than likely be stepping up to an 8 rib belt. I am also interested to see what becomes of the M122 Eaton setup. I have driven a couple factory PD vehicles, Jags and Range Rovers and they certainly were fun to drive. Its hard not to love the whine of PD S/C, terribly addictive.

[milKt]

CorreCT

More conspiracy theories?

[jmargo]

I would agree that most people are like that. I personally try not to look at other people Turbo or N/A guys any differently. I respect peoples builds for what they are. I used to have a customer who had a fully built N/A E36 M3 Sedan that had literally every bolt on upgrade available plus custom bottom and top end work that absolutely flew for an N/A car. Now granted a turbo car would have walked away from it if they were to line up but that's not what his build was about and I respected that while many others in the community at that time mocked him for spending more than they spent on their turbo cars only to get less power. At the end of the day it was his car and he built it the way he wanted to. If I wanted to go turbo trust me I would but right now it is not the direction I want to take with this car.



That is what most of research/reading has uncovered. I have also heard of people doing the boost bleed method but like you already stated its not very efficient and not worth the trouble. My setup will be aftercooled and will more than likely be stepping up to an 8 rib belt. I am also interested to see what becomes of the M122 Eaton setup. I have driven a couple factory PD vehicles, Jags and Range Rovers and they certainly were fun to drive. Its hard not to love the whine of PD S/C, terribly addictive.

Have you purchased a blower yet ?

[Butters Stoch]

Why yes, yes I have.
Meet Monica. Best around.

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[milKt]

Why yes, yes I have.
Meet Monica. Best around.

Definitely not a FOX conspiracy theory.

[maharaj1]

Have you purchased a blower yet ?

Yes I already have a Vortech V2 Blower. Blower is in good shape, I am going to be sending it out to get it rebuilt and upgrade the impeller while I'm at it.

[GG///M3]

Yes I already have a Vortech V2 Blower. Blower is in good shape, I am going to be sending it out to get it rebuilt and upgrade the impeller while I'm at it.

Which bracket are you using for this setup?


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[maharaj1]

Bracket is from ESS Tuning. I already had the setup running on my E36, engine was tired and started suffering from excessive blowby so an S52 is replacing it. I am very much of the mindset of doing things right the first time so I am addressing everything that I would possibly need to address while I have the engine out, that way once I put everything back together I can just break it in and enjoy it.

[jmargo]

Bracket is from ESS Tuning. I already had the setup running on my E36, engine was tired and started suffering from excessive blowby so an S52 is replacing it. I am very much of the mindset of doing things right the first time so I am addressing everything that I would possibly need to address while I have the engine out, that way once I put everything back together I can just break it in and enjoy it.

Do you have a picture of those ? Are they compatible with an after cooler ?

[pbonsalb]

That’s an antique big plate as I recall.

[jmargo]

That’s an antique big plate as I recall.

If its like the original ERT vortech plate then that is what I started with. It was not a good fit with the after cooler and would flex when I would tighten down the belt to keep it from slipping.

[GG///M3]

All of this Sc talk makes me want one .



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[maharaj1]

Do you have a picture of those ? Are they compatible with an after cooler ?

I don't have any pictures on hand but it is very similar to the ERT bracket. I did take some initial measurements when I first got the aftercooler and it seems like it should work. Won't know for sure until I actually mock everything up.

That’s an antique big plate as I recall.

Yep, big old plate, it is an older kit but the hardware was solid.

If its like the original ERT vortech plate then that is what I started with. It was not a good fit with the after cooler and would flex when I would tighten down the belt to keep it from slipping.

I will keep that in mind moving forward, I never had any flex issues when I was tightening the belt. There is also another bracket that helps provide additional support. Worst case I will get a bracket from a newer setup. If I do I will probably be looking for an RMS bracket since that is what a majority of my hardware is.

[jmargo]

Looking at some of my older pictures it looks like the bracket pushes the after cooler about a 1/4 inch back which means it didn't line up with the throttle body perfectly. It's probably not that big of a deal though.

[maharaj1]

Looking at some of my older pictures it looks like the bracket pushes the after cooler about a 1/4 inch back which means it didn't line up with the throttle body perfectly. It's probably not that big of a deal though.

I think I came up with a similar number if I remember correctly, keep in mind this was done with the aftercooler out of the car and several months ago. Either way 1/4 inch is something I should be able to work with. If I have to buy a bracket then I'll just have to suck it up and buy one. Finding one used is going to prove a challenge.