Ping Tick Engine Noise around 2k-3k RPM

[Sleepyhead97]

Have a 1995 525i with M50 engine. 145k now. Rebuilt the VANOS myself with anti-rattle kit and seals. There was NO radial play, so the rebuild went just fine (as it was easy enough ). Problem is, rebuilding the VANOS made no difference in the sound. The Upper timing chain tensioner looked BRANDNEW. I swapped a new lower chain tensioner from another BMW I have, and the issue/noise did not change at all.

The Main issue is between 2k-3k AFTER THE CAR IS WARM I will hear a rattle sound around these RPMS. When the car is cold, it may tick a few times, but not nearly as much as after I drive 40 miles on the highway. The noise is ONLY present while driving. NOTE: There is a SLIGHT noise between these RPMS when the car is parked but it sounds like it is coming from the lifters/cam area. Its more like a slight grumble, not very noticeable though, and not the sound that I hear when I am driving.

I have tried supreme Gas, no change.

So, what is this sound, and how long should I wait until I repair/replace the timing chains, guides, and possibly lifters? The chain looked brand-new, but after looking at several photos of other engines, they all look brand new , I guess the oil never has a chance to sit on the chain to cause any varnish.

What should I look for now? Should I be worried?

[moroza]

I'd try to pinpoint its conditions further - does it depend on load, or temperature from load? Drive it warmed up while it's ticking and put it in neutral, then rev the engine up and down in e 2-3k RPM range, and see if the noise is still there.

What do you use for oil? How are the sparkplugs?

[fo3]

If the noise is only present when driving are you sure it's not something else in the driveline? Brakes, bearings etc.
I went through similar issues, knowing my engine is loud (lifter tick when cold), I also replaced the tensioner with the one piece unit that pelican sell. I also expect soon I'll have to replace chain and and guides too, but when hot it got way worse than that, and about those rpms.
Driving past barriers and walls with windows down can maybe help pin point?
In my case ended up being a bearing that I knew was bad but got real bad.

[Sleepyhead97]

Thanks for the replies,

I taped a phone to the engine, I heard the PING/TICK in the cab, but I am not able to hear it in this video. There is a rather consistent gear rattle noise around 2k-3k RPM you can hear in the video. Video is 5mins long, and it is nothing more than sound of an engine while driving. So be prepared .

https://youtu.be/zPFg1ybuqGU


The noise only happens Underload. I drove and put the car in neutral, and revved the engine I guess around the 2min mark or so, and the noise was not present int the CAB. Its possible something driveline related. In the video, phone was taped to the front of the engine on top, near the VANOS. Sound was not present. Will tape the phone under car near transmission this time, since the noise was not present at all.

As far as oil used:
Summer 15w 50
winter 5w 40
Castrol Syn Blend.

Spark plugs are *okay*, but there is no missing or power loss. So I don't think the plugs are the cause.

[moroza]

It's almost certainly driveline, then. Timing gear does not see increased load with increased engine load, so if it's the engine itself making noises that'd be in the rotating assembly - rods, pistons, crankshaft.

Or it could be some totally unrelated object rattling around because 2-3k RPM and loaded happens to produce that object's resonant frequency. Either way, you're on the right track with the recording idea.

[Sleepyhead97]

Does that rattle in the beginning seem bad? What about that rattle while driving?

[moroza]

Yeah, the initial coarse diesel-like rattle sounds bad, but engines are notoriously difficult to audio-record; I've heard exhaust leaks that sound like that when recorded. At around 0:56, the buzzy, finer rattle on deceleration sounds like a heat shield.

[Sleepyhead97]

Here is a new video. Lifter or valve tick on cylinder 5. I also go over how I checked my rod bearings. https://youtu.be/7trrwshMKZk

[ross1]

Your noise doesn't sound like a rod bearing, forget about that. It doesn't sound much like valve noise either to me.
really tough to call from here but my thoughts:
You mention removing all the plugs, did they all tighten firmly? If you are hearing noise at the coil using the "stethoscope" I would suspect a spark plug bouncing in it's threads.
A loose plug sounds eerily like a rod knock sometimes. My gut feeling listening to your audio recording(stop talking and give it a few slow revs)is a spark plug is loose, perhaps stripped.

EDIT: just noticed the earlier sound clip. A telltale for rod bearing noise is rattle on the over run, just as the load is relieved, but the cadence seems wrong so a flopping timing chain also comes to mind. That could also be what I hear flailing around at(fast?)idle the later clip
Thinking out loud, tough to say from a recording.

[Sleepyhead97]

Appreciate the comments. Spark plugs are tight, yes loose plugs sound much like a rod knock, figured that one it on my e39.

You know I'm really not sure what it is.

There are two issues with the engine that are driving me crazy. Rod knock sound on cold start and this clacking ping while driving. It could ALL be timing chain related like you state but I'll keep taking vids and posting.

[Sleepyhead97]

New video. Cold start @27 DEGF. sounds like rod knock to me. Will pull all accessory belts and see if it persists

https://youtu.be/r33lvk-258c

[ross1]

doesn't sound like a rod knock to me, again, wrong cadence.
You might be having some piston slap mixed in there, pretty common on high mileage engines at cold start until the pistons warm up and expand.

[Sleepyhead97]

Thanks. Really appreciate your input.

Feel like I should mention. When I rebuilt the vanos,, once I pulled the valve cover the vanos bolts were backing out. I felt really lucky to have caught it when I did. You mentioned chain slap. . Would that cause this?

[ross1]

It's so hard to tell from recordings, even sometimes when its right before you.
Timing chains can make noise if this the case here it's really sloppy for some reason. Can't tell you why the VANOS bolts were loose, probably not tightened correctly before.
I didn't actually hear any piston slap but am speculating that you may be as the cadence will be similar to rod knock and also a duller sound than most valve train noises.
I'd want to get a look at the chain tension, if super duper sloppy you could skip timing and, well you know the rest.
If it's a rod bearing noise it ought to rattle on the over run. I suspect the chain could also do that if loose enough.
I hope I'm not steering you wrong but I just don't think its in the bottom end, too sharp a sound and the cadence is wrong. Main bearings are usually an even duller sound.

[Sleepyhead97]

The Pinging tick that started this whole thing... I have decided it is upper engine related, probably a lifter or valve. Running Synthetic helped it greatly, but still there.

[BundE34]

Sorry to dig up an old thread. I have 95 E34 525i with the exact same noise as yours. Like you I thought it was a vanos rattle so changed the seals and rattle kit, but the noise is still there. Just wondering did you ever get to the bottom of it? TIA.

[Sleepyhead97]

Sorry to dig up an old thread. I have 95 E34 525i with the exact same noise as yours. Like you I thought it was a vanos rattle so changed the seals and rattle kit, but the noise is still there. Just wondering did you ever get to the bottom of it? TIA.

There were two noises. One was happening only during driving and under load. It turned out it was my Center support bearing pinging and Ticking under load. If your noise only happens during driving it's possible you have the same issue

The knocking noises clearly heard in the video, no i have not fixed that but 0 40 oil helps . i believe its lifter related

[BundE34]

Thanks for the quick reply, sorry I should have specified. Its the noise in this video https://youtu.be/zPFg1ybuqGU

I get it between 2-3k rpm. I haven't notice the noise while driving only with the hood open and reving it in neutral.

[Sleepyhead97]

Thanks for the quick reply, sorry I should have specified. Its the noise in this video https://youtu.be/zPFg1ybuqGU

I get it between 2-3k rpm. I haven't notice the noise while driving only with the hood open and reving it in neutral.

Oh. The third noise lol. It still does it and not sure what it is but i think its lifter or valve related. Im not an expert mechanic im just a guy who knows just enough to mess stuff up.

What i would do is get a mechanics stethoscope and listen all over the engine with it. Each exhaust port, different areas on the head. Each in injector each coil pack. Oil pan etc and see where it is the loudest and report back here. Perhaps a master mech will see it and help us both out.

I know my 5th exhaust port has a ping like valve lash or something. That could be it.

[BundE34]

Damn I was hoping you got to the bottom of it! The search continues! My car is currently in hibernation for the wnter, I only noticed it before I put it into storage. I'll have to check it properly in a couple of months when I take it back out.
I was getting paranoid it was the bottom ends, but the fact you reported yours 3 years ago and you're still drving yours can probably rule that out.

I find with the car, because i don't drive it all the time i forget what it sounds like and find myself questioning each noise even though it could have alway been there.

Anyway thanks for your help and if I do discover the problem I'll post back here.

[Sleepyhead97]

Damn I was hoping you got to the bottom of it! The search continues! My car is currently in hibernation for the wnter, I only noticed it before I put it into storage. I'll have to check it properly in a couple of months when I take it back out.
I was getting paranoid it was the bottom ends, but the fact you reported yours 3 years ago and you're still drving yours can probably rule that out.

I find with the car, because i don't drive it all the time i forget what it sounds like and find myself questioning each noise even though it could have alway been there.

Anyway thanks for your help and if I do discover the problem I'll post back here.

It is the loudest engine ive ever had but it keeps going. Lol. I totally know how you feel

[Sleepyhead97]

Ive been thinking on this. Drove my car 25 miles yesterday and the 3k rattle is still there of course. I believe its a vanos rattle. I have installed a new bearing kit and new sleeve/spacer but it was a ebay kit. I wonder if the spacer ring i installed was too loose. I did this years ago 2014 i believe.

I came to this conclusion listening to e36 vanos rattles on youtube.

Not my car bit similar sounds. This one is worse

[Sleepyhead97]

Damn I was hoping you got to the bottom of it! The search continues! My car is currently in hibernation for the wnter, I only noticed it before I put it into storage. I'll have to check it properly in a couple of months when I take it back out.
I was getting paranoid it was the bottom ends, but the fact you reported yours 3 years ago and you're still drving yours can probably rule that out.

I find with the car, because i don't drive it all the time i forget what it sounds like and find myself questioning each noise even though it could have alway been there.

Anyway thanks for your help and if I do discover the problem I'll post back here.

Lol. Im back again... Im now sure its the lifters. Im going to swap cams aswell and change lifters. Once compkete ill reply back here if it solves it.

[BundE34]

Lol. Im back again... Im now sure its the lifters. Im going to swap cams aswell and change lifters. Once compkete ill reply back here if it solves it.

Looks like Im after opening a can of worms. I don't think my noise is the lifters, but Ill have to check again once I get it out of storage.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Jeremy94]

this could also help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqLX...ature=youtu.be