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Thread: Aftermarket Radio Head Replacement

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    Aftermarket Radio Head Replacement

    Are any of the aftermarket replacement radio head units compatible with the MID? ( gas milage, range etc)

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    Welcome to the forum.
    I don't think so.

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    Thanks, I think I'll repair the led display instead.

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    Yes there are. Look into android units and use a reslers ibus interface with the ibus app. Xtrons is a good option.

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    Hi,

    Do your research on the various low quality, cheap Chinese head units - overall, they're not very good/prone to issues etc.

    The Avin Avant 3 which has just been released is promising 'full OBC' support without the need for a separately needing to be purchased interface and app. Given it's only just hit the market, over the next few months or so, as more people buy it and install/use it, feedback and reviews as well as more knowledge on if they're a good unit or not will appear more often.

    The Dynavin N7 is the latest unit from that brand and it doesn't really improve on the 'limited OBC' compatibility of the previous N6 model from 2014. Only a 'few' of the OBC parameters show up on these two units - I believe MPG, Range etc don't show up, but I might be wrong)

    The units above are all chinese units the Avin and Dynavin being well supported in the USA so in case of getting a unit with problems, you'll get good service and support from the sellers, Any other Chinese cheapy units don't have this level of after sales care at all, but are priced much less at around $250-400 USD? so these units are a gamble.

    All the premium brand, high quality head units don't support the now old E39 and similar era specific functions like OBC.

    Cheers, Dennis!

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    Dennis' comments are all on point...

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Welcome to the forum.
    I don't think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by 777300ER View Post
    Yes there are. Look into android units and use a reslers ibus interface with the ibus app. Xtrons is a good option.
    To elaborate on these 2 'seemingly contradictory but both correct in a way' statements...

    If you want to KEEP THE MID IN THE DASH... then NO. Guys have put dash units in, and stuck the MID in the glovebox (yuck!).
    But there's no 'single DIN radio that goes above the MID and you keep it all' setup.

    The DYNAVIN / AVIN / Chinese etc. ones are MID / OBC functionality compatible aka they have functionality that replaces the MID, but you then just toss the MID in the bin (obviously because the double-din size of those units replaces the whole middle console including the CD player). Note Dennis choice of verbiage, BTW, the functionality is "OBC" functionality (the MID is theoretically just the display and interface to that...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Dennis' comments are all on point...





    To elaborate on these 2 'seemingly contradictory but both correct in a way' statements...

    If you want to KEEP THE MID IN THE DASH... then NO. Guys have put dash units in, and stuck the MID in the glovebox (yuck!).
    But there's no 'single DIN radio that goes above the MID and you keep it all' setup.

    The DYNAVIN / AVIN / Chinese etc. ones are MID / OBC functionality compatible aka they have functionality that replaces the MID, but you then just toss the MID in the bin (obviously because the double-din size of those units replaces the whole middle console including the CD player). Note Dennis choice of verbiage, BTW, the functionality is "OBC" functionality (the MID is theoretically just the display and interface to that...)
    Wrong, dynavin does not have this functionality. It is a windows CE unit and cannot use the IBUS app (which I'm pretty sure avin licensed) to control the MID functions. It has no mid control.

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    OK. What I meant was "there are some of those chinese things per Dennis's post". As Dennis says, the Dynavins claim some limited OBC function, if you say they don't then OK I don't have one, fine and that's helpful but a minor correction doesn't really warrant a "WRONG", more of a 'correction'.

    The main point is "is OP talking about wanting to physically keep the MID or does he want to keep the (pretty dumb and useless but that's a different story) OBC functionality.
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    I did like the vent timer thing when I used to have park the car outside at work. Thats about the only OBC thing I used that was actually useful.
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    Thanks for the comments. Avin's website has very few specifications for the new Avant 3. It does have a picture showing a screen with some of the OBC functions.

    https://avinusa.com/avant-3-for-bmw-...on-system.html

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    Stay away from the Avin, had the avant-2 and it was dead after 13 months. 1k$ (at the time) down the drain, sent it back for repairs, came back still broken (another $300 down the drain.) The thing you gotta understand, if you want the android HU, is that they are all pumped out of some factory in China. The guy who owns Avin then buys some slaps on his own logo and tweaks the user interface a bit, and adds on $700 to the price tag. Get the same thing off alibaba or ebay if you must and flash your own custom rom to it.
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    Uhhh, long time reader first time poster?

    I ordered an Avant3 for my 540 w/ DSP last week...will report back. Consider it my sacrifice to this community from which I've learned so much.

    I've had a Dynavin N6 in my car for a while now...it's been reliable, but it has an equal balance of nice things and goofy things and I just wanted it to do more. DSP is a big obstacle for aftermarket stuff, but for me the time and expense of replacing and rewiring everything wasn't worth it. I started looking at getting one of the white-labeled Android units for the E39, paired with the Resler module (http://reslers.de) and IBUS app (http://www.ibus-app.de/english) since that is a known & working solution for DSP integration. However, the hardware failure rate of those Seicane/*****/whatever units is notorious.

    I looked over literally everything that was available, and noticed that the Avant3 has a unique form factor. It seems like it has a plastic enclosure and no disc player, so it seems hopeful that it might be a new board design vs. the old white label crap. Also, it's a lot shallower than the others so it's easier to jam the harnesses and modules back behind without putting a lot of strain on the wiring (that was one of my concerns with the Dynavin...I had to jam 10 pounds of ***** into a 2 pound bag...up and around the bracket, and the edges of said bracket were SHARP. I tore my hands up pretty good working on that install).

    Of course I had to find something to back up Avin's claim of DSP integration. Lo and behold, here's a dude with a new YouTube channel who put up an install video of an Avant3 in an E46 (https://youtu.be/WGBgpp2wl_E?t=9m46s). Note that half of his videos so far are about Avin products, so it may be sponsored. NONETHELESS, I noticed something in that video...he shows the main harness and points, specifically, to the included USB IBUS module which by all obvious appearances is a Resler module, plus Avin's marketing shows screenshots of the aforementioned IBUS android app. It appears that they've licensed those items, thus they have a legit DSP solution. That was what I needed to see to pull the trigger...
    Last edited by M62flyer; 01-08-2018 at 04:14 AM.

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    Well M62flyer that's all very interesting! i will be excited to see how it all works out . does this interface with the obd2 port and provide engine info , i say one that had the tourque app built in but it was a seicane. thanks Shan

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    I bought an Avant 3 for my E46 if anyone has any questions about it.

    Mine came with an ELM327 bluetooth OBDII adapter (presumably for torque). I don't know if all of them come with it or if they accidentally threw one in my box (I didn't pay for it). The unit does interface with the Ibus (K-bus in E46) and gets a decent chunk of information from there. I may eventually build a CAN-interface and write my own app to get some better data from the engine, dsc, etc.

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    I have my Avant3 and it's in the car. Many plusses with the hardware design. The fit/finish of the bezel is great. Very happy with the quality of the buttons, and the fact that they are relevant to Android (home button, back button, shortcuts for navi, phone, etc. instead of wasted space with #1-6 presets) plus an accurate/non-cheesy font. The backlight LEDs are RGB and the color tone can be adjusted through settings...I got this dialed in to precisely match the OEM lighting. As I hoped, the depth of the unit is quite shallow and makes jamming the harnesses and dangly modules into the dash a breeze.

    However....
    It boots and does everything it's supposed to...but no sound. I was in touch with AVIN about this. The only suggestion I was given was that the DSP integration was not as straight-forward as advertised and a) use NCSExpert to re-code the DSP amp, b) wait for an upcoming update to the IBUS app that will broaden compatibility with different DSP adaptations. I bought a K-BUS cable off ebay because I've needed that for a while anyway, and will try out some NCS coding options for this.

    In the meantime, does anyone know a simple way to test the the analog pre-outs to see if the unit is outputting at all? The suggestion about coding is plausible, but I'm worried my Avant is DOA.

    P.S. That dude put up an E39 Avant3 DIY. That 540 looks exactly like mine (stock, Business CD w/ DSP), but he doesn't show it playing music...

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    I ran across some info a little while ago on the M5 Board regarding a no sound issue with an Avin Avant 3 in M5 with DSP & Navigation which may be helpful. I am not sure if you are having the exact issue as he seemed to indicate it was a DSP + Nav issue. Anyway Thunderdonkey from the M5 Board wrote the following:
    I've received my AVIN AVANT 3, and have been testing it (playing with it, really) just roughly installed in the trunk. The unit is damned slick, but there are a few things you'll run into:

    1. All US-market E39 M5's were equipped with both factory navigation and DSP. Upon connecting the unit to the internet, going into the BMW-IBUS app, and activating the app followed by DSP, you'll likely get sound for a few seconds, after which point there will be none, and likely none ever again. Turns out this is due to the manner in which the navigation unit does a "keep-alive" check with the DSP, which shuts off in its absence.


    To fix this, you've gotta dive into NCS Expert/Dummy and re-code the DSP module. Screenshot attached. The "BEDIENELEMENTE - CONTROLS" setting needs to be changed to "mid_basis" (setting used by MID+DSP equipped models). Once done, I shut the car off and then back on and everything worked great - 100% reliable audio ever since.

    Big props to the BMW-IBUS Facebook group for answering this question for me in under 10 minutes. Guess I had to learn about about NCS Expert eventually, eh?

    Here is his NCS screen shot
    ncsdummy.jpg

    Here is a link to the full thread his comment is post 15.

    fyi that member and another member mention a facebook group where people are sharing info about the Avin Avant 3 so that may be a good resource as well. It sounds like the group might be the BMW-IBUS group he mentions, but I am not sure as the other member just said the facebook group, but did not specifically say which one.
    Last edited by Solo12; 01-17-2018 at 01:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo12 View Post
    I ran across some info a little while ago on the M5 Board regarding a no sound issue with an Avin Avant 3 in M5 with DSP & Navigation which may be helpful. I am not sure if you are having the exact issue as he seemed to indicate it was a DSP + Nav issue. Anyway Thunderdonkey from the M5 Board wrote the following:
    I've received my AVIN AVANT 3, and have been testing it (playing with it, really) just roughly installed in the trunk. The unit is damned slick, but there are a few things you'll run into:

    1. All US-market E39 M5's were equipped with both factory navigation and DSP. Upon connecting the unit to the internet, going into the BMW-IBUS app, and activating the app followed by DSP, you'll likely get sound for a few seconds, after which point there will be none, and likely none ever again. Turns out this is due to the manner in which the navigation unit does a "keep-alive" check with the DSP, which shuts off in its absence.


    To fix this, you've gotta dive into NCS Expert/Dummy and re-code the DSP module. Screenshot attached. The "BEDIENELEMENTE - CONTROLS" setting needs to be changed to "mid_basis" (setting used by MID+DSP equipped models). Once done, I shut the car off and then back on and everything worked great - 100% reliable audio ever since.

    Big props to the BMW-IBUS Facebook group for answering this question for me in under 10 minutes. Guess I had to learn about about NCS Expert eventually, eh?

    Here is a link to the full thread his comment is post 15.

    fyi that member and another member mention a facebook group where people are sharing info about the Avin Avant 3 so that may be a good resource as well. It sounds like the group might be the BMW-IBUS group he mentions, but I am not sure as the other member just said the facebook group, but did not specifically say which one.
    Thanks for that! The AVIN guy actually sent me that same information. Anxiously awaiting my KBUS cable so I can try some things. I started out skeptical, but this seems pretty plausible in light of the fact that the BMW-IBUS app was developed by someone who probably only has access to Euro-spec cars. Would have been nice if AVIN had done their own testing.......

    A note for posterity: the symptoms are more complicated than just "no sound". When the key is turned on, a 1/sec beeping is played over the car speakers while the AVIN boots. The beeping sounds just like the sound that people reported just before their factory DSP amps failed. Separately, I configured the IBUS app to show a welcome message on the cluster display. The next time I started the car after doing that, I noticed that the beeping noise stopped as soon as the welcome message appeared on the cluster. So it seems like the IBUS interface is talking to the DSP amp in some way because it shuts up the warning tone, but still no audio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M62flyer View Post
    Thanks for that! The AVIN guy actually sent me that same information. Anxiously awaiting my KBUS cable so I can try some things. I started out skeptical, but this seems pretty plausible in light of the fact that the BMW-IBUS app was developed by someone who probably only has access to Euro-spec cars. Would have been nice if AVIN had done their own testing.......

    A note for posterity: the symptoms are more complicated than just "no sound". When the key is turned on, a 1/sec beeping is played over the car speakers while the AVIN boots. The beeping sounds just like the sound that people reported just before their factory DSP amps failed. Separately, I configured the IBUS app to show a welcome message on the cluster display. The next time I started the car after doing that, I noticed that the beeping noise stopped as soon as the welcome message appeared on the cluster. So it seems like the IBUS interface is talking to the DSP amp in some way because it shuts up the warning tone, but still no audio.
    If you don't want to wait for your cable, you can actually do it with the Resler interface (that USB-dongle sticking off the Avin unit). Connect it to a USB port on computer, configure it as COM1. After you install Ediabas/NCS Expert, go to C:\EDIABAS\BIN, and open up OBD.INI. Add a line with "MODE=KBUS". (If there's already a line that says "MODE=NORMAL", change it to MODE=KBUS). Then open up NCS Expert, click on E39, read your ZCS from the EWS module, and edit the DSP module as described above.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    If you don't want to wait for your cable, you can actually do it with the Resler interface (that USB-dongle sticking off the Avin unit). Connect it to a USB port on computer, configure it as COM1. After you install Ediabas/NCS Expert, go to C:\EDIABAS\BIN, and open up OBD.INI. Add a line with "MODE=KBUS". (If there's already a line that says "MODE=NORMAL", change it to MODE=KBUS). Then open up NCS Expert, click on E39, read your ZCS from the EWS module, and edit the DSP module as described above.
    Wuuuuttt!? EDIABAS can talk straight onto the K-bus? I did knot no that was a thing that could be done. Fascinatin'. I got a Resler around here someplace just because but never got to messing with it because I didn't really have an excuse. Also fascinating that the Avin provides one with the unit. Not hugely helpful if it hangs off the back I guess unless you run a USB extension to the glove box but still... interesting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Wuuuuttt!? EDIABAS can talk straight onto the K-bus? I did knot no that was a thing that could be done. Fascinatin'. I got a Resler around here someplace just because but never got to messing with it because I didn't really have an excuse. Also fascinating that the Avin provides one with the unit. Not hugely helpful if it hangs off the back I guess unless you run a USB extension to the glove box but still... interesting!
    Yeah, I only learned that recently myself. Technically don't even need a resler interface to do it, you could just hook up your K-line interface directly to the K/I-bus (on the E39 I don't know if you have to directly hook up to the bus you want, or if the cluster will just forward traffic to the appropriate bus). By extension, you could probably hook up the resler interface to the OBDII port and use it for Ediabas in normal mode.

    Normally the Resler interface on the AVIN is meant to connect to one of its own USB ports - that's how it communicates with the BMW I-bus app. But no reason you couldn't temporarily use it for your own purposes. Probably wouldn't be super hard to write your own Android app do some other coding type tasks via that interface.
    Last edited by TerraPhantm; 01-17-2018 at 09:29 AM.

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    Well, thanks for the input, Terra & Solo12. It's working now, although I'm not exactly sure why. When I first pulled the trace for the DSP module in NCSDummy, all the settings appeared to match the screenshot above (sort of expected this since this car had business CD & MID). I saved the FSW_PSW anyway and re-coded. Also I went into INPA and saw that the DSP module had one error, so I cleared it. Key off-on, and it worked!

    Right away I noticed that the Bluetooth reception was a bit weak for A2DP streaming...maybe that will improve after I tidy up the wiring behind the unit, I dunno. I'm going to get a SIM card for this thing so it has its own data line and hopefully that issue won't matter as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M62flyer View Post
    Well, thanks for the input, Terra & Solo12. It's working now, although I'm not exactly sure why. When I first pulled the trace for the DSP module in NCSDummy, all the settings appeared to match the screenshot above (sort of expected this since this car had business CD & MID). I saved the FSW_PSW anyway and re-coded. Also I went into INPA and saw that the DSP module had one error, so I cleared it. Key off-on, and it worked!

    Right away I noticed that the Bluetooth reception was a bit weak for A2DP streaming...maybe that will improve after I tidy up the wiring behind the unit, I dunno. I'm going to get a SIM card for this thing so it has its own data line and hopefully that issue won't matter as much.
    Hmm, my Bluetooth streaming has mostly worked fine. Half an hour into a drive it disconnects, but that doesn't seem to be related to the reception. I am using a different wifi antenna than what's included, don't know if that's making s difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    Hmm, my Bluetooth streaming has mostly worked fine. Half an hour into a drive it disconnects, but that doesn't seem to be related to the reception. I am using a different wifi antenna than what's included, don't know if that's making s difference.
    Did you receive an email with the new firmware update over the weekend? It's supposed to fix an issue with accessing the Play Store and overall it's supposed to be a lighter boot. It seemed to fix a few unrelated issues I was having...app crashes, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M62flyer View Post
    Did you receive an email with the new firmware update over the weekend? It's supposed to fix an issue with accessing the Play Store and overall it's supposed to be a lighter boot. It seemed to fix a few unrelated issues I was having...app crashes, etc.
    Yeah, just applied that the other day. Boot seems a bit faster, Bluetooth doesn't disconnect anymore (well it lasted through a 2 hour drive anyway), and generally seems a bit more stable.

    Also managed to figure out how to root the unit

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