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Thread: Beginners Cheap Turbo Setup Help

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Substance D View Post
    That was a very sensible thing to say. I respectfully disagreed with you earlier, before you started talking smack about my setup and my tune. The kid was already going to do rods, you were talking him out of it, I was just adding my perspective to the mix by posting that pic. Thats as far I was going to go. We can agree to disagree. However, I think we can all agree, it starts at 350, and then you want 400, 450, 550, 700....





    Thanks for reminding me why I love BF/FI
    I never talked smack about your setup. I have no idea what it is. All I was saying is 350-400 HP is not enough to bend rods. Your car at the time of failure had issues like all cars that fail. Anything can happen at any time to anyone. But it wasn't the power that bent or twisted the rods.
    I advised him from the rods that he was going to buy for 1 simple reason and I will use his words "very tight budget".
    So, I would hate to see him yank the motor, prolong the build, and put the money into rods that will be fine in HIS case scenario. It costs much more than the $500 to change rods. That's $500+ that could go towards data logging, maybe a better turbo or whatever. It would be like spending $5000 on 32 way adjustable crazy coilovers for a street car that isn't racing in anyway. That money can be wisely spent elsewhere that will help keep things together long term. Personally, I feel data logging with failsafes and or properly tuned standalone system is best INS.

    Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    I never talked smack about your setup. I have no idea what it is. All I was saying is 350-400 HP is not enough to bend rods. Your car at the time of failure had issues like all cars that fail. Anything can happen at any time to anyone. But it wasn't the power that bent or twisted the rods.
    I advised him from the rods that he was going to buy for 1 simple reason and I will use his words "very tight budget".
    So, I would hate to see him yank the motor, prolong the build, and put the money into rods that will be fine in HIS case scenario. It costs much more than the $500 to change rods. That's $500+ that could go towards data logging, maybe a better turbo or whatever. It would be like spending $5000 on 32 way adjustable crazy coilovers for a street car that isn't racing in anyway. That money can be wisely spent elsewhere that will help keep things together long term. Personally, I feel data logging with failsafes and or properly tuned standalone system is best INS.

    Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
    Its all good in the hood dude. Miscommunication.

    Lets resume topic.

    Vanos good for street car.

  3. #28
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    96 332IS 6466 turbo
    Even better idea.. Buy one already to go. Like this.

    Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  4. #29
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    I asked this earlier this earlier, but I think it was kinda buried in my response, but here are the questions. Should I be getting the head milled and resurfaced along with new valve seals before the cut ring head gasket and boost? and also can I be boosting on a stock ecu or should I just get a megasquirt? Thanks!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by finsky View Post
    I asked this earlier this earlier, but I think it was kinda buried in my response, but here are the questions. Should I be getting the head milled and resurfaced along with new valve seals before the cut ring head gasket and boost? and also can I be boosting on a stock ecu or should I just get a megasquirt? Thanks!
    SHUT UP FINSKY THIS ISNT ABOUT YOU! And anothering thing....

    Just kidding.

    You should get the head prepped for boost. Some one told me you dont need to machine the head at all for cut-ring gasket. I dont know if I believe them.

  6. #31
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    I always have the head checked and decked. Now that these motors are all 20 years old, its a good opportunity for a shop to change stem seals, check for worn guides, nicked or bent valves, seat condition, etc. To me, its not worth doing a headjob twice and buying an expensive gasket again.

    I would get a stock ECU tune. A good tune is very flexible. I have had the same tune since 2009, and run it on 2 motors, 4 different turbos, 3 different manifolds, stock S52 cams and schrick cams, stock head and ported +1mm valve head. Runs greats with wastegate disconnected for no boost, runs great at low rpm and light throttle before I get in boost, runs great at 10 psi, runs great at 15 psi, runs great at 20 psi. I would not mess around with a standalone unless that is a project you want to get into and you want to tune your car yourself. People have made 1000 rwhp on a stock ECU with tune. Aftermarket ECU can do things a stock ECU cannot, but you don't need those things to have a reliable well sorted out car.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    I always have the head checked and decked. Now that these motors are all 20 years old, its a good opportunity for a shop to change stem seals, check for worn guides, nicked or bent valves, seat condition, etc. To me, its not worth doing a headjob twice and buying an expensive gasket again.

    I would get a stock ECU tune. A good tune is very flexible. I have had the same tune since 2009, and run it on 2 motors, 4 different turbos, 3 different manifolds, stock S52 cams and schrick cams, stock head and ported +1mm valve head. Runs greats with wastegate disconnected for no boost, runs great at low rpm and light throttle before I get in boost, runs great at 10 psi, runs great at 15 psi, runs great at 20 psi. I would not mess around with a standalone unless that is a project you want to get into and you want to tune your car yourself. People have made 1000 rwhp on a stock ECU with tune. Aftermarket ECU can do things a stock ECU cannot, but you don't need those things to have a reliable well sorted out car.
    Okay thanks for the help, not getting a standalone is going to save some good money. Time to find some local Indianapolis area shops that are known for good work

  8. #33
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    Just wanted to add that you can't put an s52 crank in anything else without the right pistons. The piston pin height has to match the stroke.

    I see no reason not to use a stock ecu tune for what your doing.

    if it were mine I would clean the head up at home and put it back in assuming you have a healthy motor

    fear not, this path has been walked a couple hundred times


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Just wanted to add that you can't put an s52 crank in anything else without the right pistons. The piston pin height has to match the stroke.

    I see no reason not to use a stock ecu tune for what your doing.

    if it were mine I would clean the head up at home and put it back in assuming you have a healthy motor

    fear not, this path has been walked a couple hundred times
    Yep, just gotta find the right car first. I'll probably be updating my first post on this thread with some of the questions I had and the answers I got to help others who happen to run across this thread with the same questions.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by finsky View Post
    Yep, just gotta find the right car first. I'll probably be updating my first post on this thread with some of the questions I had and the answers I got to help others who happen to run across this thread with the same questions.
    You mention looking for a car and either a m50 or m52 in the first post. One thing I would add is to look for a 328. That way you have a zf trans out of the starting gate and have one less thing to worry about, break, and buy.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by drstuess View Post
    You mention looking for a car and either a m50 or m52 in the first post. One thing I would add is to look for a 328. That way you have a zf trans out of the starting gate and have one less thing to worry about, break, and buy.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Yeah I was hoping to find a 328is, no luck yet.

  12. #37
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    Bottom line, have another car/reliable daily driver while this your project car becomes a project car.
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    CES Stage IV (651rwhp/615rwtq @ 24 psi)

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWManiac View Post
    Bottom line, have another car/reliable daily driver while this your project car becomes a project car.
    This is true ^

    My car spends more time in the shop than it does anywhere else.

  14. #39
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    let me chime in because it's been a while since we had a 5mall5nail5 argument.

    Substance D, no offense, but if I had 5 cents for each count of how many times I had been consulted on builds that involved self-built, self-tuned MS setups, I'd be rich.

    Not trying to cast judgement, but I've had cars roll into my driveway on MS2/Extra that "just need a tune" and I find out there are open circuits to coolant sensors, etc.

    You had a failure at 500 RWHP (which is somewhat useless, torque figures make more sense here) which is NOT the norm. I ran an M50 non vanos for probably 80k miles on MS both supercharged and turbocharged in the 350 - 450 rwhp realm for YEARS on a college budget. Your car experienced a failure - could be from the ECU, the tune, or the care of the engine previously. That said, your result is not the norm.
    Last edited by 5mall5nail5; 12-20-2017 at 09:52 AM.

  15. #40
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    Substance D- What was the rpm limit on the engine that windowed the block?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 View Post
    let me chime in because it's been a while since we had a 5mall5nail5 argument.

    Substance D, no offense, but if I had 5 cents for each count of how many times I had been consulted on builds that involved self-built, self-tuned MS setups, I'd be rich.

    Not trying to cast judgement, but I've had cars roll into my driveway on MS2/Extra that "just need a tune" and I find out there are open circuits to coolant sensors, etc.

    You had a failure at 500 RWHP (which is somewhat useless, torque figures make more sense here) which is NOT the norm. I ran an M50 non vanos for probably 80k miles on MS both supercharged and turbocharged in the 350 - 450 rwhp realm for YEARS on a college budget. Your car experienced a failure - could be from the ECU, the tune, or the care of the engine previously. That said, your result is not the norm.
    I appreciate your opinion. We can speculate all we want, but honestly, I know my setup inside and out. Will I put another motor together with stock M52 rods, nope.

    I don't want to muddy up this kids thread anymore than I already have.




    Quote Originally Posted by charles318 View Post
    Substance D- What was the rpm limit on the engine that windowed the block?
    pm'd

    back on topic.

  17. #42
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    I have seen 3 different stock m50/m52's in the junkyard with holes in the side of the block, so I guess the safe hp limit is less than 150 whp. It happens to any type of motor.
    Last edited by someguy2800; 12-20-2017 at 06:29 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    I have seen 3 different stock m50/m52's in the junkyard with holes in the side of the block, so I guess the safe hp limit is less than 150 whp. It happens to any type of motor.
    Lol. Must have been the tune. My rod bolts were intact, I just had to weld nuts to em to get the big end off. Crank looks okay, hope I can salvage it.

  19. #44
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    What I'm saying is it wasn't necessarily your or anythings fault. It a mechanical thing and they break. That doesn't mean they all break. Roll of the dice.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    What I'm saying is it wasn't necessarily your or anythings fault. It a mechanical thing and they break. That doesn't mean they all break. Roll of the dice.
    Sometimes you just get screwed

    Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    Sometimes you just get screwed

    Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
    LOL same thing happened to me. Dropped intake manifold nut into intake by accident. Thankfully head was able to be saved and still running 18 psi with that piston.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    96 328is turbo. 140 mls, arp studs, m50 manifold, s52 cams, 6266, RSI Manifold, Pump gas + meth 556 whp 220,000 miles

  22. #47
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    I bought a spare m50 manifold online. For a direct port setup. Cleaned it all up and was driving it for a few thousand miles. It must have been really wedged in there. At 22-23# it broke it lose.

    Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  23. #48
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    For this build that I'm planning, since I'm not taking the engine out I don't need to worry about gaping the piston rings to a certain level? Just stock gaps?

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by finsky View Post
    For this build that I'm planning, since I'm not taking the engine out I don't need to worry about gaping the piston rings to a certain level? Just stock gaps?
    First, the answer is no

    There are 2 ways you can prepare the motor.

    a. Cutring gasket, spacer, and arp studs
    Will lower compression to 9:0:1 which is why you don't need to gap the rings. With a good tune and that compression the engines are good for up to 550whp. Its been proven, dont listen to the random dude who posted pics of pos rods and his build. Something was wrong or went wrong with his build that caused his shittiness
    b. You can build the motor and gap the rings in the process.

    But its been proven so many times that you can make good power out of the e36 engines and previous I6 engines without major modification. As long as you use quality components and an excellent tune you'll be okay.

    That doesn't mean go chasing waterfalls of power, the motor is stock. But I can say first hand on a base-tune and about 7-12 psi the cars are an absolute blast. If I can keep it in this power range I'm sure the engine would last as long as I wanted it too. Everything else, rear end, trans, etc... Is what you need to worry about. Unfortunately Mr. Rods didn't make it to that point :-(

    oh and if you have e85... strap a turbo on it, have it tuned, and drive it. Skip all the nonsense
    Last edited by 328iFun; 12-21-2017 at 04:41 PM.

  25. #50
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    Compression has nothing to do with having to gap rings but yes stock ring gaps seams to be fine up to a certain hp level.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

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