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Thread: BMW says to use LT71141 in 740i

  1. #1
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    BMW says to use LT71141 in 740i

    Rebuilding a trans in a 1994 740i, which as you'll all know is a 5hp30 A5S 560Z auto gearbox, black label, and the proper oil for it is of course Shell LA2634.

    This oil has proven impossible to source and when I contacted BMW (local dealership) they sent me back the technical info which says to replace with Esso LT 71141 atf. That stuff is for the 5hp24 of course but I've seen and read plenty of posts and articles saying it shouldn't be used in the 5hp30, so I'm surprised that BMW is saying to do just that.

    Thoughts, anyone? Or better recommendations?
    ...he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Acts 8:37
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    >BMW Euro parts website< >willswheels.co.uk facebook page<

  2. #2
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    Most of the threads are old where people feared of using the wrong stuff, nowadays there are products on the market for multi vehicle use, read this for example https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...rol-import-atf
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-a-VBK-upgrade

    Maybe you contact Opie in the U.K. what they have to recommend, shipping from there to Northern Ireland should be cheaper than from the US https://www.opieoils.co.uk/
    https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-969-fuc...ion-fluid.aspx
    How about Fuchs Titan from Germany, very popular there https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...tible-4-liter/
    quote
    Automatic Transmission Fluid - Shell LA 2634 compatible
    This Fuchs Titan 3353 Automatic Transmission Fluid - ATF - is the equivalent to Shell LA 2634. It is designed to work on BMWs with "Black Tag" Automatic transmissions. It fits BMW E34 540i. E32 740i 740il. E31 840i only for cars with "Black Tag" transmissions.

    This item fits the following BMWs:
    1993-1995 E34 BMW 540i
    1993-1994 E32 BMW 740i 740il

    https://www.fuchs.com/uk/en/
    Last edited by shogun; 12-16-2017 at 07:58 AM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

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  4. #4
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    Thanks guys. Very helpful. I've managed to order some Fuchs Titan 3143 ATF which claims to be up to LA2634 specifications.
    ...he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Acts 8:37
    Currently/recently dismantled:
    Breaking: E8 Neue Klasse 2000; E21 316; E24 635csi, 635csi Highline; E28 528i x3, M535i;
    E30
    316i, 316iT, 318i, 318is, 318iT x2, 320i x3, 320i Cabriolet x3, 320iT, 323i Baur, 325i x2, 325i Sport x7;

    E34 518i, 520i, 520iT, 525i M20, 525i Sport x5, 525iX Touring, 525tds, 530i V8, 535i, 540i, M5 3.6;
    E32 735i, 750i, 750i Alpina; E31 840i; E38 728i x3, 735i Sport, 750iL;
    E36 318ti Compact x3, 318i, 318is, 320i, 323i Touring, 325i Cabrio, 325tds, 328i Cabrio, 328i Sport x3, M3 3.0 x2, M3 Evo;
    E39 520i, 520i Touring, 523i, 525tds, 525d, 528i Sport x3, 530i Sport x3, 530d Sport x3, 535i x3, 535i Sport, 540i, M5 x3;

    E46 318i x4, 318ci x3, 318ti, 320d x4, 320d MSport x3, 330d MSport x3, 330i MSport x2, 330ci Cabrio, 330ci MSport x3;
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    X5 3.0i Sport x2, 3.0d Sport x3, 4.4i, 4.4i Sport

    >BMW Euro parts website< >willswheels.co.uk facebook page<

  5. #5
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    do you have a link for Fuchs Titan 3143 ATF ? Cannot find 3143
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

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    Typo? There is a Fuchs Titan 4134 but from what I have read, that is equivalent to Lifeguard 6, not 5

  7. #7
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    My apologies, that was a typo and it is indeed 4134. Fuchs specifically list it as a direct replacement for the la oil for a black tag trans.

  8. #8
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    copied from an online offer: Fuchs 4134 BMW (Black Tag) Auto Transmission Fluid (1 Liter) FUCHS, NOTE: Only for ''Black Tag'' transmission only.
    NOTE: Equivalent to: Shell LA 2634. BMW part# 83229401719, by FUCHS. Manufacturer Part Number BMW 83229401719 5137 OEM Part Number 83229401719, 83229401719, 83229401719, 9401719
    This part fits: Make (fits years) Model e31 (1994-1995) 840Ci ,e32 (1993-1994) 740i, e32 (1993-1994) 740iL ,e34 (1994-1995) 540i
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  9. #9
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    For what it's worth I replaced the filter (Filtran) and the fluid with with Redline D4 on my 94 740 about 90,000 miles ago and haven't had any issues. I'm pretty sure the trans is a green tag though.

    Edit: Just checked the Redline website and it says D4 is compatible with ZF 5HP transmissions from 1993 on, and Shell LA2634 and Esso LT71141.
    Last edited by m60power; 12-22-2017 at 10:49 PM.

  10. #10
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    I used ZF Lifeguard 5 when I did the valve body kit and service ( my thread is on here somewhere). I researched for a long time, and even emailed head office of ZF Germany, all they told me was that the only oil you can use was the Shell oil, when I replied that it is no longer available, they responded with 'that is the only oil we recommend' not helpful!!
    I ended up speaking with a guy that does all the warranty work for ZF here, and he has worked on ZF boxes for 30 odd years, and he said to use Lifeguard 5, and has done for years, he also explained that it is the green tag boxes that is sensitive to oil type and not black tags, due to the way the lock up torque converter operates, so any oil that is compatible with the shell oil should be ok.

    Whiskeychaser, just looked at the ZF lubricants guide link you posted, I see they have now edited it to recommend Lifeguard 5 for all 5hp30's, about time!
    Last edited by PJs e32; 01-01-2018 at 07:57 PM.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for that info. Looks like prices are slowly going down for ZF Parts Lifeguard 5, on a German price comparison site I just found prices per Liter between EURO 9.50/$11.40 - EUR14.71/$17.65, plus shipping EUR 4.95/$5.95 Liter.

    I understand Pentosin ATF 1 is also o.k. http://www.pentosin.net/f_transmissionfluid.asp
    OE REFERENCE NUMBERS/RECOMMENDATIONS
    Make Reference Number
    Audi/Volkswagen G052162 A1
    Audi/Volkswagen G052990 A2
    Audi/Volkswagen G055005 A1
    BMW 83220142516
    BMW 83229407807 (that is LT 71141 )
    Citroen Z000169756
    Ford XT-6-QSP
    Jaguar JLM20238
    Mercedes-Benz 0019892203
    Peugeot Z000169756
    Porsche 99991754700

    https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...rsus_ZF_Lifegu
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJs e32 View Post
    I used ZF Lifeguard 5 when I did the valve body kit and service ( my thread is on here somewhere). I researched for a long time, and even emailed head office of ZF Germany, all they told me was that the only oil you can use was the Shell oil, when I replied that it is no longer available, they responded with 'that is the only oil we recommend' not helpful!!
    I ended up speaking with a guy that does all the warranty work for ZF here, and he has worked on ZF boxes for 30 odd years, and he said to use Lifeguard 5, and has done for years, he also explained that it is the green tag boxes that is sensitive to oil type and not black tags, due to the way the lock up torque converter operates, so any oil that is compatible with the shell oil should be ok.

    Whiskeychaser, just looked at the ZF lubricants guide link you posted, I see they have now edited it to recommend Lifeguard 5 for all 5hp30's, about time!
    For your amusement, a potted history of ATF recommendations:
    2003 Black label - use Shell LA 2634. Green label - use Esso LT71141
    2009 to 2012 Use Shell LA 2634 or Lifeguard 5 depending on application.
    Warning: Using the wrong one may result in trans failure
    2014 Use Lifeguard 5 (no mention of LA2634)
    2017 LA2634 reappears but just a note that it is no longer available and to use Lifeguard 5

    You might conclude that somewhere between 2012 and 2014, Lifeguard 5 stopped being a risk and started to be the ATF of choice.

  13. #13
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    Sorry to keep asking for info guys. This one relates to getting the fluid into the thing.
    In particular shogun as I've been using your guides thus far and I quoted you hoping it might give you an alert and draw your attention this way.
    Quote Originally Posted by shogun View Post
    I understand
    Thanks.

    So I've put the rebuilt trans into the car, and we got 4 liters of the titan3143 in before it started to overflow.
    Started the car and it still sounds lovely. Let it warm up a little then shifted through the gears, holding the brake and holding each gear a few seconds.
    Let the car run for a while, at least 30 minutes, and the trans was still cold. Ran through the gears a couple more times. Opened the plug and cold atf ran out.

    So, tried again. Left trans in gear this time. It's on a lift doing this by the way. There's not enough fluid in it of course for anything to start working so it's not rotating the prop/drive shaft at all. Again it didn't get warm after 45 minutes. The fluid was just slightly warmer than before but nowhere near 30 degrees. Fluid puked out again when we opened the fill plug.

    So am I missing something obvious or crucial? Is the oil pump gone or have I done something wrong?

    For fullness of info, trans came out and was drained dry so I could swap out the valve body. Trans had lost reverse but worked fine otherwise.

  14. #14
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    Is there any whining sound? Because then the o-ring on top of the ATF filter is not the correct size and the trans pump sucks also air. Here some pics of wrong fitting and good fitting o-rings http://e32b12.blogspot.jp/2012/10/tr...er-o-ring.html
    Cold is o.k. to fill, we always fill at ambient temperature the first fill till it overflows with engine off and then start the engine and switch aircon on that idle is a bit higher and then slowly fill more while another person is shifting slowly thru the gears.
    Europeantrans has the instructions http://www.europeantransmissions.com...ansService.pdf
    1 = drain plug
    2 = filler plug
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  15. #15
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    As Shogun says, it sounds like the pump is not picking up ATF. The filter would be my first thought too but it is possible that the valve body is not completely flat against the case. The result would be the same. A bit unlikely if you fitted the VB with the case on the ground. But possible if you already had the case in the car and were working from below. This may come across as a bit insulting and I apologise in advance but you did spin the TC and push it back into the bell housing before fitting the trans?
    Last edited by whiskychaser; 01-10-2018 at 05:44 AM.

  16. #16
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    yes, that is also often a problem, the TC is not installed correct, here the instructions : Important Torque Converter Installation Tips http://www.europeantransmissions.com...rter_insta.htm
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  17. #17
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    Thanks guys. There is no whining sound.

    (one thing to note just in case it is relevant, the car can be pushed along the ground in gear or in neutral and gives the same amount of resistance in any gear)

    I believe we installed the TC properly. It was fitted into the trans before then fitting the trans and bolting the TC to the flex plate through the starter aperature.

    As said, I fitted the VB with the trans drained and upside down on an engine stand. I am confident it was installed correctly but I do not mind you making assumptions that it could be wrong, after all this was our first time stripping and attempting to repair an auto trans, before this we have always just replaced with another working one but I could not source a V8 5HP30 for several months. We did actually try a M60B30 trans (5HP18?) in it but it would not work with the car at all, and we couldn't source a prop-shaft for it.

    Back to the current situation, and the AC is not working but I can increase the revs slightly by switching on the screen demister and other heavy draw electrics.

    Although there is no whining or whistling sound, we are going to try again today hopefully and if it still isn't picking up, I will drain and check the O-ring anyway.
    ...he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Acts 8:37
    Currently/recently dismantled:
    Breaking: E8 Neue Klasse 2000; E21 316; E24 635csi, 635csi Highline; E28 528i x3, M535i;
    E30
    316i, 316iT, 318i, 318is, 318iT x2, 320i x3, 320i Cabriolet x3, 320iT, 323i Baur, 325i x2, 325i Sport x7;

    E34 518i, 520i, 520iT, 525i M20, 525i Sport x5, 525iX Touring, 525tds, 530i V8, 535i, 540i, M5 3.6;
    E32 735i, 750i, 750i Alpina; E31 840i; E38 728i x3, 735i Sport, 750iL;
    E36 318ti Compact x3, 318i, 318is, 320i, 323i Touring, 325i Cabrio, 325tds, 328i Cabrio, 328i Sport x3, M3 3.0 x2, M3 Evo;
    E39 520i, 520i Touring, 523i, 525tds, 525d, 528i Sport x3, 530i Sport x3, 530d Sport x3, 535i x3, 535i Sport, 540i, M5 x3;

    E46 318i x4, 318ci x3, 318ti, 320d x4, 320d MSport x3, 330d MSport x3, 330i MSport x2, 330ci Cabrio, 330ci MSport x3;
    E53
    X5 3.0i Sport x2, 3.0d Sport x3, 4.4i, 4.4i Sport

    >BMW Euro parts website< >willswheels.co.uk facebook page<

  18. #18
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    Some more things to check:
    that is not normal that the car can be pushed in gear like in neutral. Check once more the cable connection between the shift handle and the side of the gear at the selector shaft http://bmwe32.masscom.net/dutch740/s...ectorshaft.htm

    In case that is all o.k., when you in any case want to check once more the filter o-ring, check if the manual shift moves inside the valve body and if it is correctly installed= did you hook up the manual valve? When you raise the VB, you have to ensure that the C shape in the end engages with the lever inside the box.
    Item 50.020 1056 327 173 Selector Shift Valve, page 27 http://www.meeknet.co.uk/Gen_BMW/ZF_5HP30_Gearbox.pdf
    We made also the mistake in the beginning, nothing moved, as we had the selector shift valve not correct installed.
    There are also reports that the selector shift valve breaks with the old material, here we discussed that, whiskychaser was also involved https://www.tapatalk.com/topic/27405...cks-and-breaks

    So check item by item.
    Last edited by shogun; 01-11-2018 at 09:32 AM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  19. #19
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    In trying again today we got another 200ml into it while it was running and being shifted through the gears.
    Quite a bit of oil was dripping out so I decided to go into it. I drained the trans and took off the pan to check the o ring and look for other things, and we found some small metal parts in the pan and the oil at the bottom of the pan was full of aluminium dust shreds making the oil look metallic, so something much worse is going on and we have pretty much decided the tranny is broken.

    I'm fairly happy the shift valve was in place, as I had read your guides before putting it together and made sure to be careful to get it placed correctly.

  20. #20
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    If you have sharp, irregular bits of metal in the pan, the A/C drum has probably blown. That would account for you not getting any forward gears. Sounds terminal

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