I bought my M3 21 years ago today...

[SIIDEWAYS]

Yep, it’s already that time of year again. And while it’s been a mostly uneventful year, I did do some self-reflection recently as many of my car-guy friends continue to get the latest and greatest toys (cars that are within their respective budgets) and run them at drag or track events.

These cars range from the new Audi RS3 (which even in stock trim is already one badass ride) modified to the hilt (downpipe, no cat, dual injectors, tune, etc.) to run high 10s all day on street tires, a Hellcat with pulley, exhaust, and tune running high 9s on slicks, an E63 with tune pushing over 600HP, etc. etc. And while they’re all certainly sweet rides in their own respect, they just don’t do anything for me in terms of excitement or driving pleasure. Sure, my friends give me endless grief about continuing to drive my “dinosaur”, but quite frankly, my bucket still puts such a smile on my face whenever I’m toe-heeling into 2^nd as I take a fast sweeping turn. In fact, for some reason, whenever I see any older ride that is kept in super clean condition, like most recently a gunmetal E30 325is lowered on 17” AC Schnitzers with Sebring exhaust, I get aroused. LOL

I guess I just love living in the past.~

[pbonsalb]

I’d like an E63 AMG BiTurbo AWD. The 2018 model is incredible but the prior model is half the cost used and pretty entertaining. The little RS3 would be fun as well. I have had my 99M3 for only 12 years but still enjoy it because I turbocharged it so it goes fast enough to be entertaining. However, I’d trade it in a second for the E63 or RS3.

[BMWManiac]

I've had my e36 M3 since 2002. I turbocharged it in 2005 and it used to be a rarity at car meets. It still is for the most part, but as I get older, I feel like I should sell it and move on into a newer model...probably one I'd like to keep stock and not mod. I also have a 2013 Audi A4 that I love as a daily driver. I'd like a new S4, new M3, maybe even a Porsche Cayman....but the costs are getting up there in the mid 70s/80s and I just don't want to spend that kind of money on a car anymore....so, I'll probably keep my 650rwhp M3 for now. If I do decide to move onto a newer sport car, it MUST be a manual.

[pbonsalb]

I will move to DCT or auto and AWD. I want to put big power down and not only on warm dry pavement, and do it easily and seamlessly. Today, DCT and autos are faster than manuals in a straight line and around a racetrack.

[NeilM]

Bought my M3 new in June 1996 and still have it, albeit as a track car. Despite that it's still in very clean (although my no means unmodified) condition.

Mind you, my current model Golf R daily driver positively embarrasses the M3 as far as torque and horsepower go.

Neil

[Dan of Montana]

Bought my M3 new in June 1996 and still have it, albeit as a track car. Despite that it's still in very clean (although my no means unmodified) condition.

Mind you, my current model Golf R daily driver positively embarrasses the M3 as far as torque and horsepower go.

Neil

I have a Golf R (mk6) and an e36 M3 too!

[DocWyte]

The RS3 really intrigues me, but the DSG kills it for me. I don't have a very traffic laden commute, as such, I want my fun car to have three pedals. With that said, I'd love a 997.2 C2S with the factory aero package. Sexy!

[X5X]

I don't know how you guys can like an Audi after even driving (let alone owning) a BMW... they are the most boring cars ever produced. Feedback and response 0, steering feel 0, driving involvement 0, driving pleasure -1, transmission... no comment. Similar situation with Mercedes, but at least they are comfortable, opulent and a pleasure to drive (if you're a pensioner)... with is everything Audi is not. They are always FWD, or FWD bias (as Quattro is still a FWD system with rear wheel function) and I honestly cannot recall driving a more brain-numbing car than an Audi. In Europe, Audi's only merit is that you can get a 4x4 system in a reasonably priced german car (the equivalent BMW/Mercedes model with Xdrive/4matic are about 20% more expensive). And they are notoriously driven by the worst kind of driver... but that is irrelevant


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[pbonsalb]

An RS7 or E63 AMG BiTurbo does not seem boring to me. Not kids cars, but I am not a kid anymore and honestly, I don’t live in a canyon, on a mountain, or on a racetrack. Most of my driving is on the highway.

[propcar]

I don't know how you guys can like an Audi after even driving (let alone owning) a BMW... they are the most boring cars ever produced. Feedback and response 0, steering feel 0, driving involvement 0, driving pleasure -1, transmission... no comment. Similar situation with Mercedes, but at least they are comfortable, opulent and a pleasure to drive (if you're a pensioner)... with is everything Audi is not. They are always FWD, or FWD bias (as Quattro is still a FWD system with rear wheel function) and I honestly cannot recall driving a more brain-numbing car than an Audi. In Europe, Audi's only merit is that you can get a 4x4 system in a reasonably priced german car (the equivalent BMW/Mercedes model with Xdrive/4matic are about 20% more expensive). And they are notoriously driven by the worst kind of driver... but that is irrelevant


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The new RS3 doesn't seem that boring from everything I've seen. But I'd prob still prefer the M2 or M4 over it.

But I'd take. 997 over all of them.

[X5X]

The new RS3 doesn't seem that boring from everything I've seen. But I'd prob still prefer the M2 or M4 over it.

But I'd take. 997 over all of them.

I've driven quite a few RS Audis... and the only time/place I can see them making any sense is if you live somewhere where it snows most of the year and can only choose one car which will be both practical and 'fun'. Other than that, I don't see why someone would get one over an M or AMG product, unless you a big fan of just going straight and understeer... Also, depending on the wheel choice, the RS3 comes with wider FRONT tyres from the factory... Try explaining how its still a 'fun' car to someone with that setup

And yes, I agree, a 911 is still the definition of a sports car. Its the benchmark, and IMO, the only thing that you can compare to a Porsche (not the Cayenne/Panamera..) is a BMW M product. And I believe BMW is capable of making possible an even better car, but you have to consider that most M chassis in base form also have to function as practical everyday 2.0 diesels first, then work their way up to an M product, where as the 911 starts of as a 911

[X5X]

An RS7 or E63 AMG BiTurbo does not seem boring to me. Not kids cars, but I am not a kid anymore and honestly, I don’t live in a canyon, on a mountain, or on a racetrack. Most of my driving is on the highway.

All AMGs will put a smile on your face to begin with, but soon become 'boring' and/or annoying when you pick up on all the flaws... namely the gearboxes and Mercedes chassis. AMG has only ever been properly focused on building/tuning engines, which they do very well, but the rest is just a slightly tweaked Mercedes ?500, which is anything but a fun and interesting car to drive (whichever model, doesn't make a difference)

The RS7, unless you will only be driving children and shorter people at the back, is essentially a 2 seater with rear doors from the practical side of things... when I purchased my M6 gran coupe, its direct competition was the RS7 (an CLS63, but I've driven them on a few occasions). So, naturally, I wanted to see what it was like in comparison... other than the power, and how it puts it down because of the 4x4 system, I have nothing positive to say about the RS7, even though I was hoping that it could be the first RS product to at least be OK as Audi claimed it had a new and revised Quattro system... couldn't tell the difference. The first thing Audi would have to do is get ride of the Quattro system if they want to make a fun and enjoyable sports car, but at the same time, the Quattro system is Audis only selling point when competing with BMW and Mercedes, and because of this, the S/RS range will always be fundamentally flawed as 'fun' sports cars... unless, again, as I said, you like understeer 🤣

[pbonsalb]

I like modding my cars and putting the power down. I also live in NH where it snows in winter. And I drive my cars year round. Even in cold weather when there is no rain or snow, traction falls off. Unless you live in a warm place and run R compounds it’s a challenge to put down 600 rwhp and 600 lbs rwtq—the kind of power I like. Traction control helps but does not put down power as effectively as AWD under most circumstances. The car I will likely buy in a year or two, a 991.1TT, has a pretty performance oriented AWD. The comfy cruiser I would like — something along the lines of the E63 AMG BiTurbo does not in the prior model but the new model looks like it goes pretty good around a track — but I can’t afford a new car so I will have to wait on that one. Even the new M5 has AWD, and maybe I would consider one of them used in a few years.

[X5X]

I like modding my cars and putting the power down. I also live in NH where it snows in winter. And I drive my cars year round. Even in cold weather when there is no rain or snow, traction falls off. Unless you live in a warm place and run R compounds it’s a challenge to put down 600 rwhp and 600 lbs rwtq—the kind of power I like. Traction control helps but does not put down power as effectively as AWD under most circumstances. The car I will likely buy in a year or two, a 991.1TT, has a pretty performance oriented AWD. The comfy cruiser I would like — something along the lines of the E63 AMG BiTurbo does not in the prior model but the new model looks like it goes pretty good around a track — but I can’t afford a new car so I will have to wait on that one. Even the new M5 has AWD, and maybe I would consider one of them used in a few years.

In your circumstances an RS could make sense... but you will be a lot happier with 991! Porsche has a very good 4x4 system for the turbo (since its VW group, shares some similarity with the Quattro system which is the most capable). Also, in my opinion, the new M5 is probably the best car in the world right now.. the new 5 series in general. Best allrounder, always has been in my opinion (although I only own pre 21st century 5 series' ). However, bare in mind that Mercedes' 4matic system is the worst of the bunch, and not really a proper 4x4 system to begin with.

[SIIDEWAYS]

In your circumstances an RS could make sense... but you will be a lot happier with 991! Porsche has a very good 4x4 system for the turbo (since its VW group, shares some similarity with the Quattro system which is the most capable). Also, in my opinion, the new M5 is probably the best car in the world right now.. the new 5 series in general. Best allrounder, always has been in my opinion (although I only own pre 21st century 5 series' ). However, bare in mind that Mercedes' 4matic system is the worst of the bunch, and not really a proper 4x4 system to begin with.

I would definitely have to agree with this. My current G30 530e is awesome! It is a VAST improvement over the old F10 550i I had, which wasn't a very confidence-inspiring machine, particularly in the handling department. However, the new 5 series drives just like a 3 series (best comparison is against my F80 340i 6-speed I had, which IMHO was actually more fun than my F80 M3 - yes, I know, hard to believe, but true). The new 5 has as close to telepathic (as electric allows) steering as my E36 M3, which is a HUGE statement. It is nimble and tight, especially in fast sweepers. I love it!

And all those referencing immense power as the key to have a "fun" car, I would have to completely disagree with this. To me, it's all about balance, which the E36 M3 has in spades. Sure, it is underpowered compared to many cars on the road today, but that doesn't bother me in the least bit. So far, of all the many BMWs I've driven (about 2 dozen), I have yet to beat my quickest lap time in the E36 at Streets of Willow. Ok, there was one...which was a friend's heavily modified E46 M3, but that's a different story altogether...

[X5X]

I would definitely have to agree with this. My current G30 530e is awesome! It is a VAST improvement over the old F10 550i I had, which wasn't a very confidence-inspiring machine, particularly in the handling department. However, the new 5 series drives just like a 3 series (best comparison is against my F80 340i 6-speed I had, which IMHO was actually more fun than my F30 M3 - yes, I know, hard to believe, but true). The new 5 has as close to telepathic (as electric allows) steering as my E36 M3, which is a HUGE statement. It is nimble and tight, especially in fast sweepers. I love it!

And all those referencing immense power as the key to have a "fun" car, I would have to completely disagree with this. To me, it's all about balance, which the E36 M3 has in spades. Sure, it is underpowered compared to many cars on the road today, but that doesn't bother me in the least bit. So far, of all the many BMWs I've driven (about 2 dozen), I have yet to beat my quickest lap time in the E36 at Streets of Willow. Ok, there was one...which was a friend's heavily modified E46 M3 beat it, but that's a different story altogether...

Agreed 1000%. Especially about the power... and I join you on the unpopular opinion that the 340i is a more enjoyable drive (and in general about the fact that power is NOT everything when it comes to driving pleasure and having fun, but rather how a car drives/balance, and to demonstrate this I use my E34) The F80 M3 has 'too much' power in the sense that you are not using 100% of it all the time, and with the power you're using, you're focused more on controlling the car and not losing control than you are driving and enjoying it, whereas in the 340, you can use all of its power all the time and enjoy it without the treat of the car deciding to randomly kill you (a lot of Ms have this tendency, namely my old E63 M6 ). Of course, that has its merits as well, but if you plan on driving the car regularly, the 340 is definitely the car to go for. And if you live in an area where the weather conditions are not ideal, the Xdrive version is almost equally as fun and still very capable on icy terrain.

And regarding the new G30 5 series, believe me, almost everyone who has driven it for even a brief period has agreed with me. BMW has really set the bar high, higher than usual. And thats why I really don't understand why someone would buy the new E class (don't even want to compare the A6 to either, but it falls into the same category) over the G30 5 series, other than pure brand loyalty/image... it has nothing to compensate for.

Aaaand thats why people like is will never enjoy an Audi

[pbonsalb]

I recently drove 240, 340, 440 performance packages and the 540 on a local track during a BMW event and I would not be interested in any of them. Not very fast, don’t handle very well, they felt like appliances, and had no soul.

[X5X]

I recently drove 240, 340, 440 performance packages and the 540 on a local track during a BMW event and I would not be interested in any of them. Not very fast, don’t handle very well, they felt like appliances, and had no soul.

How so? Definitely not slow and defiantly handle by far the best in class... no competition there. Of course, if you compare them to E chassis BMWs, you might feel disappointed, but thats also the reason OP stared this thread... cars are rapidly going down hill nowadays for us 'car guys' and driving enthusiasts, they are becoming more and more automated, less fun and progressively worse driving machines, but other than BMW and Porsche, no one is still making fun cars IMO

[propcar]

I Think other manufacturers are still making fun cars, Civic Type R. Mazda Miata, Focus RS, Golf R/GTi among others.

[X5X]

I Think other manufacturers are still making fun cars, Civic Type R. Mazda Miata, Focus RS, Golf R/GTi among others.

Somewhat the Focus RS and Golf R/GTi (I own a MK7 GTi) but only because of their smart new front LSDs, but not sure about the rest.. Either way, they aren't RWD Performance BMW level fun IMO, but this is all subjective and down to what you're looking for in a car.

[RickyN F355]

i bought my 98 m3 in june of 98 and still have it. its immaculate with 72k miles and i just bought a 98 sedan to use as my DD. And i have a 95 LTW that really just sits!

- - - Updated - - -

Somewhat the Focus RS and Golf R/GTi (I own a MK7 GTi) but only because of their smart new front LSDs, but not sure about the rest.. Either way, they aren't RWD Performance BMW level fun IMO, but this is all subjective and down to what you're looking for in a car.

i have a 2017 abarth with light mods and its as fun as fun can be!