Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Constant misfire on cyl4 when cold

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Gainesville GA
    Posts
    69
    My Cars
    2002 525 Wagon

    Constant misfire on cyl4 when cold

    As the title states I have an annoying misfire when the engine is cold. I always get a P1349 cyl4 misfire which if not cleared right away lead to a fuel shut off code, then more misfires. I have checked for vacuum leaks, replaced the CCV system, replaced VANOS seals, replaced all coils, and replaced the spark plugs and nothing has helped with constant misfire. The engine starts just fine, and idles around 900RPM for about 15 seconds, then the idle speed drops to a warm engine idle speed that's when the symptoms start (mainly shaking) if left like this it will go to misfire. However if I use the throttle to keep the engine speed up till the temp needle clears the blue section it will not go to misfire. Although recently I have had isolated incidents of stalling when cold.

    Anyone got any ideas? I'm stumped.

    Travis

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Hamilton, ON, Canada
    Posts
    39
    My Cars
    2001 540iT; 1994 Miata
    See my thread here for what I've been going through... https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-start-misfire
    I don't have an answer for mine (yet), and of course no guarantees it would be the same, but there might be something in my troubleshooting that you haven't tried.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    121
    My Cars
    E39
    Possibly the fuel injector(running to lean for cold engine), you can try swapping it with another cyclinder.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Nowhere
    Posts
    223
    My Cars
    something
    Have you run a datastream from engine start up? It would be interesting to see what the actual engine temperature from the sensor, along with fuel trims and missfire count.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    366
    My Cars
    2003 BMW 530i
    Quote Originally Posted by Uturn540 View Post
    Have you run a datastream from engine start up? It would be interesting to see what the actual engine temperature from the sensor, along with fuel trims and missfire count.
    How does one do this?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Quote Originally Posted by 6spd540 View Post
    Possibly the fuel injector(running to lean for cold engine), you can try swapping it with another cyclinder.
    This would be first look for me. Looking at fuel trims could be helpful also. If an injector is acting up then that bank should be off. Could be sticky injector that works OK when it warms up.

    Also how about your DISA? That sits right in the middle around #3/4, if it did the full self-destruct and parts are lying around inside maybe its starving that cylinder at marginal idle conditions (stone cold).

    You might check overall fuel pressure too. There's cases where if pressure is low sometimes one injector gets starved first although A. I don't think the BMW rails have that problem, and B. it'd be hard to see that being #4, usually its an end-cylinder/injector.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Gainesville GA
    Posts
    69
    My Cars
    2002 525 Wagon
    I have not swapped the injector, although I run fuel system cleaner pretty frequently. The fuel filter could probably use a change, but with the problem being just one isolated cylinder I suspect that may not be my problem. The DISA is in good shape I have looked at it several times before, and cleaned the IAC some time back. After reading jDuffett's thread I'm really leaning towards the need for a DME software update. I'm the third owner of the car, the second owner had it the longest and maintained it well but I suspect it never saw any electrical work. It may be time to contact the stealership for a service appointment. I have the full suite of diagnostic software, but when I try to run INPA my car won't communicate, the OBD port seems to lose power and stops communicating.

  8. #8
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    No disrespect but that's a whole slew of bad ideas. It's always ill-advised to take another guys thread as "SAME AS ME!!!!" if you haven't run out all the same stuff he has. Worth learning for sure, but, your situation doesn't quite sound same as his, and... there's some crap advice in that thread as usual for the General Mechanical forum.

    Fuel system cleaner wont have any impact on a real sticky failing injector, so good for you for giving the car nice treats once in a while, but don't consider that proof of anything.

    Despite what wrong people suggest, fuel filters aren't really a thing on these cars for a whole host of reasons (gas doesn't have anything to clog them these days + anyway those filters are huge and you could stuff a dead rat in one and still draw fuel...) and as you say, then wouldn't just be one cylinder, it'd be more of them and you'd have super high trims and likely overall mixture codes. Anybody talking fuel filters as an E39 thing of first resort has their cranium firmly rectally impacted, but there are clowns who keep pointing people in the wrong direction on that. I can't count how many unnecessary fuel filters have been replaced based on that advice around here (i.e. only to be "didn't seem to make a difference so now I'm looking at..." of course it didn't make a difference, it was fine before, they RARELY are bad...)

    The DME software is fine. With insanely rare exception (and I can pretty much guarantee that this ain't one if 'em) that is also a complete and utter pile of horse poop. It's not Windows 10 and you need an update to fix security flaws or an egregious software bug. Its fine. If it ran fine before, its fine now. Some guys reflash software and say that magically something happened, but what it almost certainly was, was resetting adaptations temporarily. Sometimes adaptations will set to a place where the engine likes it for hot idle and cruise trims, but because something else is actually still mechanically wrong w the car, you have side-symptoms (ex: a cold idle misfire maybe..) and the motor can't 'adapt its way out' to a place where it works fine all the time.

    And even if that was an idea with some merit, a dealer will charge you a tidy sum for the reflash no doubt, if you can get your software set up properly you can do it for free.

    And what do you mean by "before" and "some time back" for DISA and IAC? Like "last year when it wasn't doing this same misfire"? Or like "since i started having this problem"?

    If I was you, I'd:
    - Get INPA running, pull proper BMW codes, will likely tell you something your PeePee code reader doesn't
    - Look at trims at the same time
    - Reset adaptations and see if it "fixes it" temporarily
    - Swap some injectors
    - eyeball the MAF readings and see if they look vaguely in the ballpark vs. known good idle numbers for M54B25
    - Double check that DISA and IAC if you haven't checked it since this started happening

    A bad/sticky IAC certainly could do it... funny I didn't suggest that off the bat since my buddies 325xiT was doing basically exactly this until they swapped a new IAC in, and now it runs mint. Mostly if those freely rattle they probably are OK, but not always... sometimes the solenoid inside gets hinky.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Martinsville VA
    Posts
    2,545
    My Cars
    2003-525i BMW
    Had this problem once, and traced it to the temp sensor at the back of the engine ,on top of the head. I removed it, installed the new one and that made the fix. I broke the original sensor off from the electrical connector, so that I could remove the base , then install the new sensor. With the old sensor broken off from it's base . I could then remove the electrical connector, without any problems. I noted that the original sensor, had become contaminated with coolant that had weeped into the part.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Gainesville GA
    Posts
    69
    My Cars
    2002 525 Wagon
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    No disrespect but that's a whole slew of bad ideas. It's always ill-advised to take another guys thread as "SAME AS ME!!!!" if you haven't run out all the same stuff he has. Worth learning for sure, but, your situation doesn't quite sound same as his, and... there's some crap advice in that thread as usual for the General Mechanical forum.

    Fuel system cleaner wont have any impact on a real sticky failing injector, so good for you for giving the car nice treats once in a while, but don't consider that proof of anything.

    Despite what wrong people suggest, fuel filters aren't really a thing on these cars for a whole host of reasons (gas doesn't have anything to clog them these days + anyway those filters are huge and you could stuff a dead rat in one and still draw fuel...) and as you say, then wouldn't just be one cylinder, it'd be more of them and you'd have super high trims and likely overall mixture codes. Anybody talking fuel filters as an E39 thing of first resort has their cranium firmly rectally impacted, but there are clowns who keep pointing people in the wrong direction on that. I can't count how many unnecessary fuel filters have been replaced based on that advice around here (i.e. only to be "didn't seem to make a difference so now I'm looking at..." of course it didn't make a difference, it was fine before, they RARELY are bad...)

    The DME software is fine. With insanely rare exception (and I can pretty much guarantee that this ain't one if 'em) that is also a complete and utter pile of horse poop. It's not Windows 10 and you need an update to fix security flaws or an egregious software bug. Its fine. If it ran fine before, its fine now. Some guys reflash software and say that magically something happened, but what it almost certainly was, was resetting adaptations temporarily. Sometimes adaptations will set to a place where the engine likes it for hot idle and cruise trims, but because something else is actually still mechanically wrong w the car, you have side-symptoms (ex: a cold idle misfire maybe..) and the motor can't 'adapt its way out' to a place where it works fine all the time.

    And even if that was an idea with some merit, a dealer will charge you a tidy sum for the reflash no doubt, if you can get your software set up properly you can do it for free.

    And what do you mean by "before" and "some time back" for DISA and IAC? Like "last year when it wasn't doing this same misfire"? Or like "since i started having this problem"?

    If I was you, I'd:
    - Get INPA running, pull proper BMW codes, will likely tell you something your PeePee code reader doesn't
    - Look at trims at the same time
    - Reset adaptations and see if it "fixes it" temporarily
    - Swap some injectors
    - eyeball the MAF readings and see if they look vaguely in the ballpark vs. known good idle numbers for M54B25
    - Double check that DISA and IAC if you haven't checked it since this started happening

    A bad/sticky IAC certainly could do it... funny I didn't suggest that off the bat since my buddies 325xiT was doing basically exactly this until they swapped a new IAC in, and now it runs mint. Mostly if those freely rattle they probably are OK, but not always... sometimes the solenoid inside gets hinky.
    All excellent points Geargrinder. I always like to hear from you. I never get into the whole "it happened to me so it's happening to you" stuff. I like to learn WHAT may have caused similar problems for someone else and evaluate if it's relevant for me. I'm always open to feedback from everyone, I will never claim to know it all simply because I don't know all. This wagon has had this problem since I bought it 2 years ago, I've just been dealing with it and attempting to work on it when I can, now it's getting worse which is also why I'm posting about it again. I'll pull the DISA again when I can, but when I did the VANOS back in April I pulled it and it was intact with none of the usual breakage and it didn't appear to be stripped. I may need to try to locate an older laptop as my current one does not seem to lend it self to working with INPA (it's kind of an odd ball). I have asked multiple times about OBD port issues, never seem to get a response. Have disconnected the MAF before and started the car cold same issue presisted. I just find it odd that it is isolated to one cylinder and I can't seem get any sort of change with anything I've done. I will try to get to an injector swap to see if the problem will move around. It seems like a logical step to evaluate. I may also pull the IAC again. It was gummed up a few months ago and I got the parts moving freely after cleaning it, although hey it might have been bad before I cleaned it.

  11. #11
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Quote Originally Posted by 754 View Post
    All excellent points Geargrinder. I always like to hear from you. I never get into the whole "it happened to me so it's happening to you" stuff. I like to learn WHAT may have caused similar problems for someone else and evaluate if it's relevant for me. I'm always open to feedback from everyone, I will never claim to know it all simply because I don't know all. This wagon has had this problem since I bought it 2 years ago, I've just been dealing with it and attempting to work on it when I can, now it's getting worse which is also why I'm posting about it again. I'll pull the DISA again when I can, but when I did the VANOS back in April I pulled it and it was intact with none of the usual breakage and it didn't appear to be stripped. I may need to try to locate an older laptop as my current one does not seem to lend it self to working with INPA (it's kind of an odd ball). I have asked multiple times about OBD port issues, never seem to get a response. Have disconnected the MAF before and started the car cold same issue presisted. I just find it odd that it is isolated to one cylinder and I can't seem get any sort of change with anything I've done. I will try to get to an injector swap to see if the problem will move around. It seems like a logical step to evaluate. I may also pull the IAC again. It was gummed up a few months ago and I got the parts moving freely after cleaning it, although hey it might have been bad before I cleaned it.
    Cool. Have you checked that your cables COM port and the EDIABAS/INPA config file settings match up (aka both are on "COM1" or "COM2" or whatever?) There's a handy little utility from FTDI that lets you change the COM port assignment pretty easily, I use a buncha cables at different times, but just use that to set them to "COM1" so my config never changes (you do have to unplug/replug the cable, or sometimes reboot, for the COM change to take effect which some guys miss).

    Not really the place to get into an EDIABAS de-bug convo but.... maybe that helps...
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NW suburban Chicago
    Posts
    16,302
    My Cars
    hiss by my window
    I agree with the notion of a fuel injector leaking down, I've seen it do this.
    An easy way to check without the need for any special tools is to remove the #4 plug as soon as this happens. Wet plug? Swap coil with another and see if the miss follows to rule out a wonky coil.
    There are plenty of places that re-furb the injectors for ~$20 a pop
    Last edited by ross1; 12-20-2017 at 11:50 AM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Gainesville GA
    Posts
    69
    My Cars
    2002 525 Wagon
    The comm port settings are good, it took me a minute to figure that out. I am able to run the body control preferences program without a problem, as I was able to disable the DRL's and make a few other changes. Which is odd because I can do that, but not run INPA. My laptop is a bit of an odd ball, I'm going to get one my old computers running again and see if one of them will work better.

  14. #14
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Uh... the "body control preferences program?" So Grindr or Tinder?
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Gainesville GA
    Posts
    69
    My Cars
    2002 525 Wagon
    Good afternoon all

    I thought I would bring this back to the top as I was finally able to get out to the garage and replace the number 4 fuel injector. After replacement it started and seemed to idle slightly better than before and warmed up with no misfire. However the next morning when I went to work I started the car then walked away to feed my chickens, when I came back 3 or 4 minutes later the car was shaking and listed a cylinder 4 misfire. The misfire has constant yet again. I've got a great indy near by (an old personal friend), but he's so busy I'd loose my car for weeks. I have pretty much eliminated everything directly associated with cylinder 4. As I have said before I'm stumped.

    Thanks,

    Travis

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Los Gatos CA
    Posts
    4,246
    My Cars
    1987 325is, e34, Z3, e39
    Have you done a leak-down or compression test?

    Does the engine consume oil?

Similar Threads

  1. Random Misfire at idle when cold
    By mikenelson in forum 2004-2010 (E60,E61)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-03-2017, 05:32 PM
  2. Random Misfire at idle when cold
    By mikenelson in forum Engine Tuning
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-28-2016, 05:21 PM
  3. Clicking / ticking on start when cold
    By bluewater530 in forum 1996 - 2003 (E39)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-09-2012, 12:53 PM
  4. E30 Down on power when cold.
    By OHoSPARTACUS in forum General BMW Mechanical Help sponsored by RM European Auto Parts
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-02-2012, 06:43 PM
  5. noise on startup when cold
    By scottMA 635csi in forum 1976 - 1989 (E24)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-02-2008, 07:26 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •