My Blackstone Labs oil analysis report. Thoughts?

[PhilPhil]

Yesterday I got the results of my oil analysis report from Blackstone. My mechanic was skeptical when I first told him about the service, which is probably good. (It's always smart to be skeptical). I haven't had the chance to show him the report yet, though.

I'm not completely sold on the Blackstone Labs thing. Not that it doesn't make sense, in principal. On the "plus" side, my report, and the others that I've found online, don't seem to be a cut-and-paste fake type of thing. They read like they were written by an actual person looking at the data. I talked to a rep on the phone for a few minutes, and I didn't get any suspicious feeling. None of this is proof of their honesty, but my B.S. detector has yet to be triggered by anything they've done.

Thoughts, anyone... especially from someone with a more technical background? Snake oil or science? Anyway, here's my report...

Text pasted form their summary. Jpeg of the whole thing below that:

This is a nice way to start your BMW's oil analysis program. Universal averages show typical wear
levels for this type of engine after about 4,500 miles of oil use. You went 3,000 miles on this oil and wear
metals are appropriately low, so no mechanical issues stand out. This looks like a great engine with 56,561
miles on the odometer! The viscosity read in the 5W/40 range and no measurable fuel or water showed up.
No significant coolant contamination was detected, and the 0.2% insolubles show excellent oil filtration.
Great first report for your Z3 M Coupe!

[cody2130]

Theses are common to run on Subaru's and they all seem to be well prepared and very individual. I would believe what the report says for sure

[Harvey Mushman]

Apologies--I've never heard of this company or service. What, exactly, is it for?

[Schreier]

Harvey: Blackstone Labs analyzes the oil in your engine. When your engine wears, different metals can show up in the oil. When the oil is analyzed, the report can tell you of there is "more than average" amount of metals in the oil, perhaps indicating that something is going wrong or wearing out in the engine. They also test for water (for potential head gasket issues), fuel content (potential fuel mixture issues), and additives. They can tell you about the viscosity of the oil, and maybe a thing or two about what brand the oil is (if you have no idea what's in the engine).

Probably a lot I'm missing, but here's my first report on my 2000 2.3, and I specifically asked them to find out what oil this was in the car when I came to own it:

MATTHEW: We're not entirely sure what brand of oil this is. The sodium additive narrows our choices down to something like Castrol or Valvoline or even Napa/AutoZone. The viscosity was a 5W/30. Wear metals mostly look pretty good, but lead (from bearings) was high. Maybe this is due to hard use or will otherwise prove temporary, but it's hard to say for sure. The trace of fuel that turned up is harmless, and no other contamination was found. For now, our suggestion is just to check back next oil change and we'll see how lead looks and go from there.

blackstone_labs_2000_Z3_122K_elements.png

blackstone_labs_2000_Z3_122K_props.png

My records on this car strongly indicate this should have been 10W/30 CarQuest oil, which is the store brand at Advance Autos. CarQuest is re-branded conventional Valvoline oil with additivies. I know, I know. That could be why the lead content was so high.

[Harvey Mushman]

Harvey: Blackstone Labs analyzes the oil in your engine. When your engine wears, different metals can show up in the oil. When the oil is analyzed, the report can tell you of there is "more than average" amount of metals in the oil, perhaps indicating that something is going wrong or wearing out in the engine. They also test for water (for potential head gasket issues), fuel content (potential fuel mixture issues), and additives. They can tell you about the viscosity of the oil, and maybe a thing or two about what brand the oil is (if you have no idea what's in the engine).

And then what do you do with this information?

[Vintage42]

Blackstone: https://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard-analysis.php

The information can indicate whether you should change the oil or not.
You may be used to changing at 2,500 or 5,000 miles, or when the car's OIC says to.
But a Blackstone test at 10,000 miles might say the oil can actually last many more thousands of miles.

A Blackstone test can indicate impending problems.
The metal content can warn of abnormal wear, and the kind of metal can tell where that wear is.
Moisture or coolant in the oil can indicate a leaking head gasket before coolant loss might be noticed.

If you want to go as long as possible, Blackstone is needed.
Truck and heavy equipment operators do not change their dozens of gallons of oil until Blackstone says it's needed.

[gmushial]

Blackstone: https://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard-analysis.php

The information can indicate whether you should change the oil or not.
You may be used to changing at 2,500 or 5,000 miles, or when the car's OIC says to.
But a Blackstone test at 10,000 miles might say the oil can actually last many more thousands of miles.

A Blackstone test can indicate impending problems.
The metal content can warn of abnormal wear, and the kind of metal can tell where that wear is.
Moisture or coolant in the oil can indicate a leaking head gasket before coolant loss might be noticed.

If you want to go as long as possible, Blackstone is needed.
Truck and heavy equipment operators do not change their dozens of gallons of oil until Blackstone says it's needed.

Agreed on all points...

I'm old school... and when people talked about synthetic oils lasting a year or 10k miles or more... , and coming from dino oil and 2.5k than, or believe it or not, 5k miles changes... It was Blackstone that convinced me that, even at 10-13k miles, my AMSoil still have life in it and was still optimally doing its job [seems that AMSoil in a M52TUB25 and with a heavy right foot, has a service life of 15-18k miles - though I'm can't bring myself to go beyond a year and 10-13k miles]. ... beyond that, I use their report as a heads up for bearing wear or other parts starting to shed too much metal, or a incipient leaking head gasket etc. ... but each springtime, when I do the oil change, I send the requisite 2oz off to them and see what they have to say - I feel it's a small amount money, well spent.

[BimmerBreaker]

Blackstone is a highly reputable and established company. E39 M5 guys have used them religiously for many years.

Oil analysis is done to determine the amount and types of various metals suspended in the oil. Some metals like copper indicate rod bearings may be begining to fail, so repairs can be done before it becomes a major problem. They can also be used to gain information about the health of the engine by determining the amount of contaminants in the oil (fuel and combustion byproducts for instance).

[Randy Forbes]

In the past, I have sent samples of the same used oil to both Blackstone, which I've used hundreds of times, and to Titan Laboratories in Colorado, which have done several dozen analysis' for me. The results were always within one (1) or two (2) PPM (parts per million). Over a period of a couple years, I did eight or ten (8-10) comparisons, using up stocks of prepaid Titan kits while transitioning to Blackstone.

My conclusions were that they were both consistent__I mean, I don't have a gas chromatography column to run the same tests__but I accept their findings.

My history of doing oil analysis dates back to the mid 1980s, using Titan sample kits, I didn't switch to Blackstone until early this century.

Just so you know, these oil analysis' weren't conjured up to fleece anal-retentive car enthusiasts; they're a vital component of predictive maintenance of Heavy Machinery (stationary engines for gas compressors that are the size of your house, as one example).

There is next to zero value in a single analysis, assuming the machine isn't ten (10) seconds from self-destructing, but in being able to view a trend of several reports. Armed with wear characteristics over a period of time/distance, you can pinpoint anomalies and plan for corrective action before a catastrophic failure.

At $35.00 or so, it's cheap insurance.

[gmushial]

In the past, I have sent samples of the same used oil to both Blackstone, which I've used hundreds of times, and to Titan Laboratories in Colorado, which have done several dozen analysis' for me. The results were always within one (1) or two (2) PPM (parts per million). Over a period of a couple years, I did eight or ten (8-10) comparisons, using up stocks of prepaid Titan kits while transitioning to Blackstone.

My conclusions were that they were both consistent__I mean, I don't have a gas chromatography column to run the same tests__but I accept their findings.

My history of doing oil analysis dates back to the mid 1980s, using Titan sample kits, I didn't switch to Blackstone until early this century.

Just so you know, these oil analysis' weren't conjured up to fleece anal-retentive car enthusiasts; they're a vital component of predictive maintenance of Heavy Machinery (stationary engines for gas compressors that are the size of your house, as one example).

There is next to zero value in a single analysis, assuming the machine isn't ten (10) seconds from self-destructing, but in being able to view a trend of several reports. Armed with wear characteristics over a period of time/distance, you can pinpoint anomalies and plan for corrective action before a catastrophic failure.

At $35.00 or so, it's cheap insurance.

Well said. :-)

[MartyBtoo]

I agree with Randy's writeup. I've had Blackstone analysis done on all of my oil changes for the last 50K miles, still looking good. I'm probably going to install the BE rod bearings at 100K in a few months, will be interesting to see what happens then.

Marty

[Curt C]

Blackstone identified trace amounts of antifreeze in the oil of my Mustang track car. I pulled the plugs and sure enough cylinder # 4 showed signs of a failing head gasket. I pulled the head and confirmed the compromised gasket. It could have ruined a track day weekend for me. Money well spent. What is it now? $30 plus postage?

[ntinkle]

Never considered them for a car. Probably never will. Or my 2 tractors (Freightliners). I have, however, used them on my piston planes. Anything to make sure the big fan in the front doesn’t get quiet.

I’ve known pilots that were warned, but more that weren’t. So it’s not 100%. But if it helps even sometimes, it’s worth it in the plane.

Just don’t see the value on something that won’t fall out of the air. But some pilots don’t see it even then....

They are, however, legit. One of two big companies that do this.

[Terry F.]

Would you see the value of documentation of condition in regards to resale? If you were purchasing a really expensive but mere terrestrial ship, wouldn't oil analysis be of value?

I am going to do it soon, for the first time.

[ntinkle]

I wouldn’t see any more value, BUT if some percentage of buyers did, you’ve increased your likely buyer pool, and that’s a good thing. So if we’re talking six figure plus cars, maybe I can see the value.

Planes start every trip for several minutes of +100% of rated HP, and fly the rest of the trip at 70-85%, with CHT’s generally in the 380-400° range and much higher ICPs. Combine that with the failure penalty, and the value can be found.

Cars run run on average, what, 20%? Plus they are FADEC (full authority digital engine (or electronics) control). Planes are still technologically equivalent to a lawn mower. And even then, the analysis is only viewed by some as “worth it.” I am one of those.

But hey, it’s your car. In the plane, I couldn’t care less what others think.

I can see the satisfaction of having one more record that helps show what a conscientious owner you are.

[ntinkle]

I wouldn’t see any more value, BUT if some percentage of buyers did, you’ve increased your likely buyer pool, and that’s a good thing. So if we’re talking six figure plus cars, maybe I can see the value.

Planes start every trip for several minutes of +100% of rated HP, and fly the rest of the trip at 70-85%, with CHT’s generally in the 380-400° range and much higher ICPs. Combine that with the failure penalty, and the value can be found.

Cars run run on average, what, 20%? Plus they are FADEC (full authority digital engine (or electronics) control). Planes are still technologically equivalent to a lawn mower. And even then, the analysis is only viewed by some as “worth it.” I am one of those.

But hey, it’s your car. In the plane, I couldn’t care less what others think.

I can see the satisfaction of having one more record that helps show what a conscientious owner you are.

[BimmerBreaker]

If a $30 analysis lets me catch a failure when its still $500 to fix vs. post-failure fixing it for $5000 then it has value

[ntinkle]

Well my last post here hasn't been "approved," so this may or may not be. I haven't been here enough to know if you have to agree with the guys in charge for a new poster to get posted, or if a keyword got me in the time-out box.

If it catches 1 in 10 failures - about right in plane engines (which nobody knows about without that whole approved post thing) - and if a failure only happens once in 200k miles (a ballpark, but probably not far off, and probably conservative), how much value does it have?

Extended warranties rarely make financial sense, but many buy them. You can buy one on most of our older Z's, now, but is the cost worth the benefit?

Define value. A benefit of any portion at any cost?

The only benefit I can see making it worth the cost would be a fastidious owner that didn't highly modify their car. If it's a guy with a highly modified car, than I'm going to be afraid of the abuse dished out, and an oil analysis is going to make me feel any better.

A lot of problems happen when something breaks. An analysis CAN catch some things, but often doesn't.

I'm trying not to post the same thing I did in the un-approved post, because the forum guru may deem it worth posting.

Opinions were asked, and that's all this is. Do what makes you feel good. It doesn't have to be justified to anyone else. If nothing else, they are interesting to read, and see the comparisons to other like engines.

[ntinkle]

In a bit of an about face, *I* may do an analysis for two or three changes. I just bought an '01 with 26k miles. It's been driven as few as 100ish miles in a year, and the past several years at under 500. If there was a time this might make sense, it's now.

[BimmerBreaker]

For what it's worth, most people doing oil analysis do so on S54 powered cars, to determine the health of the rod bearings.

I'm doing an analysis on my X5 because I suspect the rod bearings failed. I wouldn't spend money doing anaylsis on S52's or M5x's personally, unless I was suspecting something was wrong. In cars with potentially expensive internal failures, like S54's, it makes sense to get these to possibly prevent total catastrophic failure. On something like an M52 I don't see much point personally.

[ntinkle]

I haven't been around here long, and it may be well known, but oil analysis won't catch particulate material. If you are worried enough to do an analysis, you should be cutting open your filter to look for particles.

[ntinkle]

It's a slow day. Here's something to think about - What happens when something comes back amiss? How many will actually do something major like a complete tear down to check main bearings or cylinder removal for a rod bearing check, when you get this info? Even in airplanes, most people just start losing sleep and worrying. Most don't tear the engine down until there is more hard evidence, for instance, metal in the filter.

[BimmerBreaker]

I assume most of those who are doing the analysis will do something if the results show something. We have had many members perform rod bearing jobs after their analysis indicated they were failing. The analysis indicates they are failing not by the particulate content, but by the amount of copper and other metals.

Like I said, I'm doing an analysis on my X5 because I suspect rod bearings are failing. I will replace the rod bearings if that's the case. No point doing an analysis if you have no intention of responding to it's results lol

[gmushial]

It's a slow day. Here's something to think about - What happens when something comes back amiss? How many will actually do something major like a complete tear down to check main bearings or cylinder removal for a rod bearing check, when you get this info? Even in airplanes, most people just start losing sleep and worrying. Most don't tear the engine down until there is more hard evidence, for instance, metal in the filter.

If it's metal that are running high, I'm going to make sure I have a good oil pressure gage up and running, and will take a look at at-idle oil pressures with warm oil... and if that's low, like near zero, then I'm going to pull it apart... but if that's still 5-7psi, then I'm going to be looking at maybe cam bearings etc... but I'll become proactive at that point.

[Terry F.]

I'm a data freak, that stuff interests me.