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Thread: Loose Tie Rod??

  1. #1
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    Loose Tie Rod??

    Okay so 1999 323is, just installed new coilovers, new tie rod ends, e46 control arms (oem) and Jalopi angle blocks. * created a caster position that makes my wheel sit to far back in the fender even with correctly installed offset control arm bushings

    Whenever i hit a bump the steering wheel shakes and wont stop till i come to almost a complete stop. So i jack the car up and go over everything, Driver side tierod balljoint is moving as if it is not tightened up, so I tighten the nut up lower the car, drive, same thing.

    come home jack it up... ball joint is loose again.


    maybe the tie rod shank doesn't have enough threads? so i add two washers, use my old nut from my OE parts and tighten it up to the point i think its going to strip

    drive it to work.. Same thing but not quite as bad.

    My only other thoughts are alignment is creating an oscillation? right now its my trusty dusty eye thats aligning the front end. (new area trying find a decent shop)

    do you think that a bad or excessive toe spec could cause this? I'm stumped


    IG: dimitriantoniou

  2. #2
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    Have you tried removing the Jalopi blocks? The taper might be wrong for it? I dunno. Take pix. I'm not sure which ball joint you're talking about. the inner to the rack or the balljoint to the knuckle?

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  3. #3
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    the tie rod end that attaches to the knuckle. I guess ill take the jalopi blocks off, i have an event this sunday and I really wanted to test them out. who knows ill try and get a picture or video this evening. I really like them, the increased speed is awesome.


    IG: dimitriantoniou

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  5. #5
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    Not knocking the Jalopi stuff. Just working through process of elimination. If you remove the blocks and it works fine, the blocks are the issue. If not, it's likely the tie rod or the hardware on the tie rod.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  6. #6
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    BMW uses a very shallow taper, Aluminum is not hard enough to accommodate a shallow taper. If you ever take a look, cars with oem aluminum knuckles use a broad taper like generally 15°+ or in the case of all modern BMW's they use a broad spherical seat to distribute the load in the aluminum

    To put it simple Aluminum doesn't work with shallow tapers. Its wallowing out the hole, eating deeper. To run a shallow taper in aluminum you need a steel insert. BMW even did that on the E39 and then bailed after a few years because they can still be problematic.

    Also the combination of E46 arms, E36-non-M knuckles, and the jalopi blocks is always going to kill the wheel position. Like no one makes a lollipop that can compensate for that.
    Last edited by Piner; 12-11-2017 at 09:11 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piner View Post
    BMW uses a very shallow taper, Aluminum is not hard enough to accommodate a shallow taper. If you ever take a look, cars with oem aluminum knuckles use a broad taper like generally 15°+ or in the case of all modern BMW's they use a broad spherical seat to distribute the load in the aluminum

    To put it simple Aluminum doesn't work with shallow tapers. Its wallowing out the hole, eating deeper. To run a shallow taper in aluminum you need a steel insert. BMW even did that on the E39 and then bailed after a few years because they can still be problematic.

    Also the combination of E46 arms, E36-non-M knuckles, and the jalopi blocks is always going to kill the wheel position. Like no one makes a lollipop that can compensate for that.

    Interesting, might take the blocks off tonight.

    I was on my way to lunch and my outer ball joint broke in half.... right below the threads. OEM bmw e46 arm


    IG: dimitriantoniou

  8. #8
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    So how’s that “just keep tightening it” theory working out for ya?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikestokman View Post
    So how’s that “just keep tightening it” theory working out for ya?

    Tie rod wend is fine lol, i never touched the control arm balljoint after install. I removed the blocks threw a new control arm on and ass seems well. I have an event sunday so I just need to get it ready for that. Currently e46 arms and rack spacers seem to give decent angle.

    On the look out for a used SLR half/Full kit unless modded knuckles are worth it.


    IG: dimitriantoniou

  10. #10
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    Everything is a compromise. The Jalopi blocks aren't meant for street use but should get you angle. It sacrifices geometry to get you there though. Modded knuckles work too but aren't adjustable, depend on how good your welder is, and it's necessary geometrically great. The SLR kit works (in its various forms) but is the higher dollar option with its own set of drawbacks (like mega nega camba)

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  11. #11
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    if you want more e46 arms I'm taking my set off this weekend, they're meyle with about 100 miles and 1 event on them. (better than oe, unless you're buying zhp arms)
    instagram @andyitslit

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Press22 View Post
    if you want more e46 arms I'm taking my set off this weekend, they're meyle with about 100 miles and 1 event on them. (better than oe, unless you're buying zhp arms)
    I hate you because I just bought OEM ones used, and one broke and then I had to buy a new one from O'rielys because I needed it ASAP since my car was half in my driveway half stuck in my road lol. if I can get a refund from the ebay seller I may purchase one from you


    IG: dimitriantoniou

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    The SLR kit works (in its various forms) but is the higher dollar option with its own set of drawbacks (like mega nega camba)
    Not that bad with just a mini kit and E46 arms, or the super arms with the camber adapter plates. Price yeah nothing I can do about that aside from the occasional sale or two. If you already have E46 arms then the SLR Minikit is a good budget street option.

    Yes I am a shill now

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by e30 394 View Post
    I hate you because I just bought OEM ones used, and one broke and then I had to buy a new one from O'rielys because I needed it ASAP since my car was half in my driveway half stuck in my road lol. if I can get a refund from the ebay seller I may purchase one from you
    lol. I'll give you a good deal for both arms. don't need them I have SLR now.
    instagram @andyitslit

  15. #15
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    I can't justify going that far and not going all the way though.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    Everything is a compromise. The Jalopi blocks aren't meant for street use but should get you angle. It sacrifices geometry to get you there though. Modded knuckles work too but aren't adjustable, depend on how good your welder is, and it's necessary geometrically great. The SLR kit works (in its various forms) but is the higher dollar option with its own set of drawbacks (like mega nega camba)
    The SLR mini works with E46 arms though, so not any more camber than the Jalopi blocks.

    Unless you go full SLR

    - - - Updated - - -

    EDIT

    Nevermind Piner beat me to it lol

  17. #17
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    The compromise with the mini kit is that you can't get as much angle.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    The compromise with the mini kit is that you can't get as much angle.

    I don't want that massive poke associated with the SLR kit only because I still enjoy the car on the weekends on the street so i think the half kit would be perfect, i just want fast steering and moderate angle.. I have an event sunday if I'm happy with the angle i have with just rack spacers I'm going to probably just leave it. I've already spent too much money on it. i need more seat time more than anything.


    IG: dimitriantoniou

  19. #19
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    Ehh the massive poke with the Super kit really depends on a lot of factors. I run the super kit with 17×8 +20 style 32 wheels on 215/40-17 front tires about -4* of front camber and they fit under my stock fenders with a slight roll. I daily drove my car like that for a couple years with no issues. My biggest issue with dailying the car had nothing to do with the kit. It was the roll cage , my harnesses, no radio and no A/C in Florida. It's a track car so not really a comfy car.

    But I digress. Super kit is easy to live with on a street car and it's pretty fun being able to do a complete U-turn nearly anywhere.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    The compromise with the mini kit is that you can't get as much angle.
    As much angle as the Jalopi kit? Or the Super / Ultra kits? I'm offering it as an alternative to the Jalopi kit, I figured they'd get the same amount.

  21. #21
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    The difference in angle is a limitation of the control arm used not the blocks. The SLR mini kit is the same block as the Ultra and Super kit. The only difference is the Control arm used. If you have a mini Kit then there is always the option to buy the Super or Ultra arms separate later on as an upgrade path. Depending on your wheel and tire setup a Mini Kit should be able to hit 55-65*.

    Blocks or knuckles are usually not the limitation on angle ever. Its your wheel/ tire/ frame rail clearance that are the main factors. Mini Kit (E46 non-M3 OEM arms) with a 17X7 -15 offset wheel with a 205/40/17 Federal RS-RR would be the Hot Budget setup and would hit 70* of angle on the cheap.
    Last edited by Piner; 12-14-2017 at 11:29 PM.

  22. #22
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    I have no idea the angle it gives. At this point, it really doesn't matter max angle anymore. Everyone just gets crazy amounts.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piner View Post
    The difference in angle is a limitation of the control arm used not the blocks. The SLR mini kit is the same block as the Ultra and Super kit. The only difference is the Control arm used. If you have a mini Kit then there is always the option to buy the Super or Ultra arms separate later on as an upgrade path. Depending on your wheel and tire setup a Mini Kit should be able to hit 55-65*.

    Blocks or knuckles are usually not the limitation on angle ever. Its your wheel/ tire/ frame rail clearance that are the main factors. Mini Kit (E46 non-M3 OEM arms) with a 17X7 -15 offset wheel with a 205/40/17 Federal RS-RR would be the Hot Budget setup and would hit 70* of angle on the cheap.
    dont you tempt me.

    where is there a 17x7-15 5x120 affordable wheel?

    edit: you can get a 17x8+0 torque thrust wheel for about $130. add a spacer to that......
    Last edited by RandomHero27; 12-15-2017 at 12:06 PM.

  24. #24
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    Only issue with that is you’re only gaining angle at the sacrifice of scrub radius. Could make the car handle terribly and at that point you might aswell have just done shitty cut and shut knuckles

  25. #25
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    I use style 5/42 that are 17x8 20et on on a 30mm spacer so I'm -10 overall

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