The uphill battle... aka e36 M3 STR build

[aeronaut]

Thanks for the link, that's a great price!

As to calculating f/r ratio, yea, as long as you double the piston area for both fixed and sliding calipers like you did in your calculation, then you'll get the F/R ratio correct. Or, double neither.

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AHHHH.....those aren't the 4R's (radial), hence my price confusion.
The list for the 4R's are $248, and Berhents has them for $207. Still a good price.

[snakebit8]

Thanks for the link, that's a great price!

As to calculating f/r ratio, yea, as long as you double the piston area for both fixed and sliding calipers like you did in your calculation, then you'll get the F/R ratio correct. Or, double neither.

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AHHHH.....those aren't the 4R's (radial), hence my price confusion.
The list for the 4R's are $248, and Berhents has them for $207. Still a good price.

I'm debating fabbing up my own set up for the front that uses the 4R's Just less piston options for that caliper but I think its probably the better option as long as I make sure I can get the right sizing.. Lighter and stiffer, just need to machine my own bracket. Again I wish Lee made a front bracket set for the 4R would make my choice easier haha.

[aeronaut]

Yea, I think Lee still makes the 4R bracket to convert E36M3 rotors to E46M3 rotors, which is what I'm considering (I'm currently running Porsche calipers and E46M3 rotors on my E36M).

I've also thought about fabbing up my own bracket...but I don't have a mill. Yet.

[Laminar]

I feel like the radial setup would be harder to DIY a bracket for since you're working in two dimensions. With the mounting ears, you just need a flat plate and some spacers of the right thickness and you're golden. Do the radials have another advantage I'm not seeing?

[aeronaut]

Theoretically, radial mount calipers will flex slightly less. I'm guessing I wouldn't notice the difference on an otherwise mostly stock 90's era E36.
So, good point, the non-radial might be the way to go. Cheaper, and 'easy' to make adapters. Excellent!!

[snakebit8]

Radial mounted calipers are also a lb each lighter... Small difference but If I'm making the effort and my co-driver has a machine shop in his basement... why not haha. You can see the CNC in the background of the engine replacement pictures on the quick jacks.

Or easy button the prepared kits.

[Laminar]

Wilwood says the FSLIs are 5.2lbs but doesn’t report a weight for the radials. I found a vendor claiming they’re 4.4lb. Would the adapter for the radial mount require any extra material causing it to weigh more?

Super jealous of the CNC!

[snakebit8]

Wilwood says the FSLIs are 5.2lbs but doesn’t report a weight for the radials. I found a vendor claiming they’re 4.4lb. Would the adapter for the radial mount require any extra material causing it to weigh more?

Super jealous of the CNC!

Yeah you are right 0.8lb but nearly a lb haha. Those are the same weights listed by Wilwood on their website. The adapter may require more material but I'm not thinking 0.8lb more. Who knows for sure though. Something to play with. Also been talking with my buddy about using titanium for better strength to weight, would be quite a bit pricier but might be fun to fool around with on various generations of the bracket.

[Laminar]

A rectangular piece of steel 1" wide by 5" long by .5" thick is about 0.71lb.

If you have the capability to machine titanium, I say go for it! You can also do Ti fasteners - https://www.ti64.com/

[aeronaut]

As a fun project, titanium might be, fun. I have no idea what it takes to machine Ti.
I'd seriously look at 7075 Al, as long as the machining isn't too complex.
Or, whatever Al type the calipers are made from, then you'd know you have the strength and heat resistance you'd need.

[jayjaya29]

I recently installed the offcamber BBK on my e36 m3. I haven't done an autocross yet but have done a few track days with them. The loss of unsprung weight in the front is VERY noticeable, really livens up the front suspension. Braking ability remains about the same depending on pad choice. I would recommend the kit, the adapter bracket fitment is perfect.

[snakebit8]

I recently installed the offcamber BBK on my e36 m3. I haven't done an autocross yet but have done a few track days with them. The loss of unsprung weight in the front is VERY noticeable, really livens up the front suspension. Braking ability remains about the same depending on pad choice. I would recommend the kit, the adapter bracket fitment is perfect.

Very Cool. Was the bracket steel or aluminum? It's hard to tell from the pictures. On that front do you have any pictures of the kit and the install process? Just trying to gather information on all my options.

[aeronaut]

Very Cool. Was the bracket steel or aluminum? It's hard to tell from the pictures. On that front do you have any pictures of the kit and the install process? Just trying to gather information on all my options.

FYI, the offcamber web site states "Stainless steel, custom machined mounting brackets and spacers"
https://offcamberautosport.com/shop/...ance-brake-kit

Looking at that mounting bracket, it's pretty thin, so steel might be the best choice.

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I wish offcamber would offer just the brackets for sale.

[BlackHawkRacing]

FYI, the offcamber web site states "Stainless steel, custom machined mounting brackets and spacers"
https://offcamberautosport.com/shop/...ance-brake-kit

Looking at that mounting bracket, it's pretty thin, so steel might be the best choice.

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I wish offcamber would offer just the brackets for sale.

You should call and ask. Mo (owner) is a pretty reasonable guy.

[snakebit8]

FYI, the offcamber web site states "Stainless steel, custom machined mounting brackets and spacers"
https://offcamberautosport.com/shop/...ance-brake-kit

Looking at that mounting bracket, it's pretty thin, so steel might be the best choice.

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I wish offcamber would offer just the brackets for sale.

Ahhhh not sure How I missed that. It looked like steel based on the thickness like you said, just looking for clarification. Mo has been great to email with, he's even looked up pricing to get the pads I wanted to use. Would love to send bussiness his way but also still just trying to see all the options.

[jayjaya29]

They are indeed steel brackets.

[95maxrider]

Oh you guys are overthinking this, just be cheap like me and throw on some 328 knuckles and brakes, I'm sure I saved a few pounds doing that Of course, I only did that so I could fit 15" wheels and rally tires on the car....

[snakebit8]

Thanks for the pictures Jayjaya! Kits looks nice.

Oh you guys are overthinking this, just be cheap like me and throw on some 328 knuckles and brakes, I'm sure I saved a few pounds doing that Of course, I only did that so I could fit 15" wheels and rally tires on the car....

Haha, I wish I could go with smaller brakes to drop weight. There are a few kits that downsize and save quite a bit but unfortunately they are not class legal. I must stay stock rotor diameter or larger.

[snakebit8]

Hope This Post finds everyone thriving in tough times. Lack of things to do has had my mind on several projects I’m working on, this car included. Last time I posted about the car I installed new front brake rotors and the exhaust, I have since installed new rear rotors and done a bit of a walk around of the car to check a few things and see how she’s doing after the major surgery she went through this winter with the new engine. . I also refined the tow strap install so it looked less janky. Since having the engine blown the idea of good strong tow straps really appeal to me. Overall I’m very pleased with how she’s running and the to-do list is getting shorter and shorter. There are a few big (big Money) items I think I’m going to put off for a year or two minimum but I am going to do the brakes and then a few little items to get the car to a comfortable well-functioning state.









I also got a decal for the car. It seems to fit the spirit of this build in STR.



“Smaller” Projects- parts ordered for some upcoming unplanned vacation time.

Power Steering Whine- Ever since I swapped the engine out I have had a little bit of power steering whine out of the car. I had put in the Chase Bays setup and overall I’m very pleased with it but I need to try and track down why it is whining even though the fluid level is correct. I ended up sourcing another power steering pump rebuild kit to rebuild the pump and see if that is contributing. Has anyone that went with the Chase Bays kit had a similar issue?
Front wheel bearings- One of the few bits I have not replaced yet. Not really giving me issues but I think I have heard some real light squeaking so I ordered some new ones to throw in there so that its all fresh under there.

Air Conditioning- I ordered a bunch of new AC components including a new controller (old controllers screen was toast) in an effort to get cold air in that car. Summers in the south are waaaay too unpleasant to not have working air conditioning if I have to carry the weight of it to be class legal anyway.

Radio- I got a hold of a smaller Blu-tooth radio for the car. I like to listen to music some at events so the choice to get something with phone connectivity to add to the convenience of the build. Also nice to have hands free when I actually drive the car on the street. Again it all makes sense to set it up since I cant pull this stuff out to save weight per class rules.

“Bigger Project”
Brakes- In previous posts we have discussed some caliper options I’ve been doing some more hunting since then and talking with my co-driver and He wants to try making up all the caliper mounting brackets to make our own stock sized kit so we are going to try it out. I have found calipers for two different setups.

One is a lug mounted light, less expensive set up. It is based off the Forged Narrow Dynalight calipers #s 120-11578 and 120-14332. A small very light auto-x only kind of setup.

The other setup is a more robust and probably more flexible radial mounted setup running the Forged Narrow Superlights. 6 piston in the front (same weight supposedly as the 4 piston) Left 120-11781, Right 120-11780 and 4 piston rear 120-11876. Perks of this setup are they are supposedly more rigid as well as using a larger pad which should extend pad life a little bit even if they are the narrower pad. Downsides are a slight increase in weight, and they are more expensive.

Does anyone have any experience with either of these calipers? I know we are talking piston areas and brake bias earlier and I think I picked calipers that maintain all of that as well as fit the rotor width and diameter. This will most likely be a fall project.

I will hopefully be getting all the above done in the next few weeks so hopefully I will have a nice update for this build thread soon. As always thanks for following along.

[snakebit8]

Mid Summer Updates

So… Progress… Had a bit of time to tinker at the end of June so I tackled a few projects that I wanted to check off the list.

Front Wheel Bearings- They had never been done on this car, One of the few things that was still carried over from when I bought it. They were not in great shape so I’m glad I changed them out. Used the double nut method to pull the studs and move them over. Debated just doing a whole new set but it seemed so frivolous with how little these have been run. I also had quite the debate on whether to keep the brake dust shields or not. I finally decide to retain them for now to hopefully protect the ball joints near the hub. Also don’t really ever overheat them so them getting heat in them quicker is actually a benefit so on they stayed. The new ones went on much easier than I would have expected, kind of worried the spindle may have some wear. Time will tell I guess. Also… pro tip… cheap dust covers don’t fit, just ordered some from the dealer to make sure I didn’t repeat that issue.










Only picture I have with the factory dust covers showing. Not shiny but they fit!

Air conditioning- So per class rules I cant remove it so If I’m carrying the weight I’m gonna have cold air in my face by god! Went ahead and ordered a kit from rock auto, very reasonably priced. I also grabbed a new (to me) Climate control controller for the interior since the old one had a burnt out display. Super pleased with the ability to read the display again. The overall install was a bit tedious with the front end intact again. I eventually got everything in place and ready to bolt together and dropped it off at a shop to do the final connections and pump down. I had never had ac in this car at all so when I went and picked it up and it blew cold air I was super pleased. Racing in the south in the summer with no AC is not super pleasant. I’m hoping this will help my concentration on those hot days. Based on that… its totally a performance upgrade, hard to be at your best when you are getting cooked haha.








Hopefully soon the car is going to be able to make some events and get more miles on her. We just mounted up a new set of Yoks for some testing in the next few weeks. Curious to see how this car works with them. As always thanks for reading, I hope to have more updates semi soon.

[Laminar]

Also… pro tip… cheap dust covers don’t fit, just ordered some from the dealer to make sure I didn’t repeat that issue.

Yeah woof on that one...one of my dust covers is held in place by hopes, dreams, and silicone RTV. Whenever I race someone else's car and we sit in grid with the AC on I'm like...oh yeah...this would be nice.

[snakebit8]

Yeah woof on that one...one of my dust covers is held in place by hopes, dreams, and silicone RTV. Whenever I race someone else's car and we sit in grid with the AC on I'm like...oh yeah...this would be nice.

Yeah they covers were very disappointing. It only has one job! My niece was checking out what I was working on and asked how the dust covers stayed on and I tried them out finally only to find they didn't fit at all. Her curiosity was very well founded haha. Pretty annoying. Just called they local dealer and had them next day shipped so that there would be no question whatsoever that they would fit.

Yeah Co-driving with other folks while the car was sans engine reiterated to me the importance of comfort on ones focus. Actually looking forward to the next even even more knowing I get to be comfortable between runs.

[snakebit8]

New tire update

So with some of the neighboring regions having events, The co-driver and I decided to grab a fresh set of tires to play around with. Since the car was built it has always been of 255/40/17 BFG Rival 1.5s. Like the tires feel and how well it took heat on two driver cars. The biggest Issue I had with the tires is how god awful they are in the rain. With the aggressive rear diff it was almost impossible to put down any meaningful power when our site was wet.



Enter the Yokohama Advan A052, The new “hot” tire for cars that can get enough camber to use them correctly. This new 200tw tire has its own strengths and weaknesses, but it seemed to fit what would be useful for this car and how it is set up. Besides the aforementioned need for camber apparently it has a softer sidewall which needs to be supported by a wide wheel if possible. This is compounded by the apparent fact that they tend to run wide. Based on this those running 9 inch wide wheels (class limit) seem to be choosing the 245 tire over the 255 tire (also the class limit). The initial plan between the co-driver and I was to buy a set of each and test them both back to back. The quicker one stays the other one gets sold. This plan was put on hold when our local site seems to be in limbo due to it been school property and all school sites are shut down due to pandemic reasons. We decide to just grab one set for now and see how we felt on it. We chose the 255 since we are heavier than the other cars in class and hoped the width would help with putting power down which is our one advantage over the NDs.










One of the main advantages this tire seems to have over the BFG is the supposedly amazing longitudinal grip. It put power down great and braked great. With the big power advantage we have over the Miatas it only made sense to we would try to maximize it with a tire that excelled in this area. I had also heard that they are not bad in the rain for being a dry tire. This would be a welcome change from the BFG.
You can see that the tire is slightly ballooned on the wheel where the rival is not. This supports the claims that they tend to run wide. Looking at the tread you wouldn’t thing it would be good in the rain but time will tell I guess.


First even since March-

Well with the local region being kept from our site by the school system shutdown we decided to travel to a neighboring region. NCM is not horribly far from Nashville so we threw the car on the trailer and went up and ran with the TN region. We will also be running events there with the KY region who also runs at this site. Weather report called for mixed conditions but we decide to risk it to get some seat time. Would probably only be a light rain if it rained anyway right?



Well we got one Dry run on brand new tires then the heavens opened up. The second run for both of us was in an all-out downpour. If we wanted to test the new tires in the rain we got our chance. They were surprisingly good. Was way easier to put power down than the BFGs had ever been in these conditions. Even in the dry they put the power down great. So much so the car pushed on corner exit where it didn’t on the old tires. Going to have to tune around that I think. The big weird thing I noticed in the rain was that the asphalt have sealed lines between the strips when it was laid down and the tire seemed to skip over those in a way I had never felt before. This was confirmed by an S2000 on the same tires. Pretty unique haha.





The event was then paused for a bit due to lightning and everyone found cover to wait it out. After that front of storms hen through the rain stopped but a bigger front was quickly approaching. The event chair decided to let us finish our runs and then call it a day, so we got two damp runs then off to the house. My co-driver and I both went faster in the damp than in the dry(first run on brand new tires in the dry). Very surprising to say the least on how early we could get on the gas and the rear would stick. I’m super excited to get a full dry event on these tires now to see where we stand setup wise. Dialing back the understeer my be job one as we try to optimize these tires. Over-all though it felt great to get out and run again. Bonus point is that we did not blow sound with the new louder exhaust (and it is quite loud) so that’s nice. Also... AC was awesome! Why did I wait so long for such a simple thing!

As always thanks for reading along and following all my rambling.

[Laminar]

That's a definitely trial by fire...er...water.

[95maxrider]

Looks like I missed some updates earlier, nice job! Yeah, I'm glad I kept AC in my car. I'm one of the few cars in my class at rally-x with it still installed, and it can really make those hot days easier to deal with.