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Thread: Buying a 530i with a failed automatic trans and going to MT convert it. Questions...

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    Question Buying a 530i with a failed automatic trans and going to MT convert it. Questions...

    So I'm buying a 2003 530i with a failed automatic trans, with the intention of swapping it.

    Some questions, if you don't mind:
    1) any good AT --> MT DIY guides with non broken photobucket pics out there? Ideally with a parts list, wiring changes, coding changes
    2) Drive shaft-- will I need a different one?
    3) Differential-- is the gearing going to be a problem? Or is it the same for both?
    4) Is the 5mt from the e46 the same 5mt used in the e39? Bellhousing included? Can I use one of them without additional complications?
    5) Assuming yes to (2), any reason I can't use a 6mt from a post facelift e46?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Obioban; 12-07-2017 at 07:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
    So I'm buying a 2003 530i with a failed automatic trans, with the intention of swapping it.

    Some questions, if you don't mind:
    1) any good AT --> MT DIY guides with non broken photobucket pics out there? Ideally with a parts list, wiring changes, coding changes
    2) Is the 5mt from the e46 the same 5mt used in the e39? Bellhousing included? Can I use one of them without additional complications?
    3) Assuming yes to (2), any reason I can't use a 6mt from a post facelift e46?

    Thanks!
    Have not done it, but have thought about it for the future. In addition to your other research check out youtube vids from 50's kid and Ovalbore on topic. I would prob avoid the temptation to install a 6-speed as it requires a hybrid or custom driveshaft. I may have a complete used 530i manual swap kit (pedals, driveshaft, trans, shifter, lines, & differential) for sale in a week or two.

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    PM Brian (Redshift) or Paul (blackknight530i). They have done these swaps in the past and have it down pat.

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    Geargrinder is another one that did it to his car too.

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    5 speed or 6 speed?



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    Quote Originally Posted by auaq View Post
    5 speed or 6 speed?
    Grinder?? His is a 6 spd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyansBMW View Post
    PM Brian (Redshift) or Paul (blackknight530i). They have done these swaps in the past and have it down pat.
    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Geargrinder is another one that did it to his car too.
    PMed.

    Quote Originally Posted by auaq View Post
    5 speed or 6 speed?
    As in the OP, undecided as of yet!

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    Hey guys,

    Obioban,

    Some questions, if you don't mind:
    1) any good AT --> MT DIY guides with non broken photobucket pics out there? Ideally with a parts list, wiring changes, coding changes

    I'm not sure of any specific DIY guides out there, but most of the e46 guides out there work for the basics. RealOEM is the best way to figure out what parts you need as it will show you everything for the 5MT, you just need to bounce between several pages to get everything. Wiring changes and coding changes would be the same as my M3 6-speed swap I did on my 530i, so you can use my "DIY" linked in my signature to help you. If you decided to use the M3 6-speed, I have a full parts list for that linked in my "DIY" that you can use. Lots of parts would come from a 540i/M5 if you go that route, but you could still use a 530i diff/driveshaft, assuming you do the hybrid driveshaft front section that Stuck did.

    2) Drive shaft-- will I need a different one?

    As mentioned above, you will need a new driveshaft no matter which transmission you go with. If you go with a 5MT, you will use the manual 530i or 528i driveshaft, but you'll need either a 530i or 528i manual diff if you don't want the revs to be really high. When I still had a 5MT in my wagon with the 2.5L engine, I had a 2.93 from a 528i manual and it was a bit too long of ratio. I later swapped the engine and transmission to the 3.0 with 6-speed and a 3.15 diff from a 540it auto and it is much better. The stock 530i auto diff is a 3.46. If you go with a 6-speed, you'll want to use a 2004-2005 530i front section of a driveshaft and mate it to the original rear section from your car. The other option is if you go with the M3 6-speed vs the 330i 6-speed, you could swap the output flange from a 540i or M5 transmission to the M3 transmission and use a 540i or M5 driveshaft unchanged, depending on which diff you wanted. This would require swapping the axles out as well though.

    3) Differential-- is the gearing going to be a problem? Or is it the same for both?

    See above, but you have several options.

    4) Is the 5mt from the e46 the same 5mt used in the e39? Bellhousing included? Can I use one of them without additional complications?

    The 5mt from later e46s with the ZF transmission are the same as the e39, but keep in mind that I think the e46 325i 5mt came with the 250g manual transmission and not the 320z that is what the 530i and 330i would have come with. The 320z is much beefier and is the one used in the e36 M3 as well. Bellhousings are the same no matter what.

    5) Assuming yes to (2), any reason I can't use a 6mt from a post facelift e46?

    See above, but yes, you can either use a post facelift e46 6MT (same as 2004-2005 530i 6-speed manual transmission. aka GS6-37BZ) or e46 M3 6-speed (S6S-420g that is M3 specific). If you use the GS6-37BZ, you will need to either fabricate your own or buy a custom made transmission crossmember as there is no stock part that works. If you use the 420g M3 transmission, you can use the 540i or M5 crossmember as it fits it as-is. I find this much easier, but I'm told the 37BZ is a really nice transmission, so up to you how much you want to do.

    Again, check out the DIY guide linked in my signature for my 530i/6 swap. It's not a step-by-step guide, but it does cover pretty much everything you'll need to do.

    -Paul
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    Hey Ian! Cool project.

    Paul ^^^ is your guru on this, obviously!

    But nothing you'll find difficult at all. Nicely the MS43 DME automagically decides if its auto or manual so no tricky flash messing around there, just getting the wiring right, although I'm guessing there's some gear-detection tables that ideally would want to be fixed for it to be perfect depending on if you change diff ratio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Hey Ian! Cool project.

    Paul ^^^ is your guru on this, obviously!

    But nothing you'll find difficult at all. Nicely the MS43 DME automagically decides if its auto or manual so no tricky flash messing around there, just getting the wiring right, although I'm guessing there's some gear-detection tables that ideally would want to be fixed for it to be perfect depending on if you change diff ratio.

    What's this car for - winter beater to keep miles off the M3's ?
    I don't really have a specific purpose for it-- I saw RyansBMW's car for sale with all new OE bushings and Konis, with the body/interior in good condition, and felt like it shouldn't be scrapped.

    Plus I really like 6 cylinder e39s.

    And I recently saw this project for M54s, and it made me want an M54 to do it to, because there's something wrong with my brain

    - - - Updated - - -

    And I do kind of want to build a 532i one day, though I'd probably want to start with an M5 shell for the bodywork/interior/options-- easier to transfer subframes than all that, imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
    And I do kind of want to build a 532i one day, though I'd probably want to start with an M5 shell for the bodywork/interior/options-- easier to transfer subframes than all that, imo.
    I'm with you there and think a 532i would be a great project, but starting with a M5 is going to be a difficult thing when you are looking for the body/interior/options to be in good condition to start with, and it has a bad S62. The reason being that if you have a decent M5 to start with, why not just put another S62 in it, since that's an amazing engine and better in my opinion. You'll spend more on putting a S54 in it with all the suspension, steering, and subframe parts that need to go in, rather than just putting a good engine in.

    If you instead start with a well optioned 530i sport (or a 530it/6 like I have ) and swap a S54 in, it's much easier and cheaper and you can still swap the other M5 bits in if you want. I want to do it on my wagon mainly for the fact that as far as I know, there has only been one build with a S54 into an e39 and it's not documented, so there's a uniqueness to it. Also, I much prefer the rack and pinion steering in my wagon over my M5 steering and would love to just have some decent power in the car. The engine is still in excellent condition, so it could go to another project as well and the rest of my car is already prepped for the S54 (540it 3.15 diff could be swapped with M5 diff without even needing to change axles, M3 6-speed already installed, M5 cluster already installed, etc.). I think you'd come out ahead by doing the S54 swap into the 530i, than to do it with a M5.

    -Paul
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    I far prefer my s54s to my s62s :P

    Torque makes me bored. I like to have to work an engine over to get its all.

    I don't know if an e39 wagon is the best place for an S54, though-- the extra wagon heft is significant in the e39, and low torque engines highlight weight! Plus, not sure I'd want the s54 in car with the e39 touring's lack of rear precision-- if you're pushing hard enough to get the best out of the s54, I feel like that's going to hold the car back.

    If I did an e39 touring swap, I feel like I've gravitate more towards the v12.

    The 6 cylinder e39 steering is stupidly better than the 8 cylinder steering. That said, the monoball thrust arm bushings (GAS) help bunch. They don't make it "good" (like the 6 cylinder cars), but they take it from "crap" to "acceptable", imo.
    Last edited by Obioban; 12-07-2017 at 01:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
    I far prefer my s54s to my s62s :P

    Torque makes me bored. I like to have to work an engine over to get its all.

    I don't know if an e39 wagon is the best place for an S54, though-- the extra wagon heft is significant in the e39, and low torque engines highlight weight! Plus, not sure I'd want the s54 in car with the e39 touring's lack of rear precision-- if you're pushing hard enough to get the best out of the s54, I feel like that's going to hold the car back.

    If I did an e39 touring swap, I feel like I've gravitate more towards the v12.

    The 6 cylinder e39 steering is stupidly better than the 8 cylinder steering. That said, the monoball thrust arm bushings (GAS) help bunch. They don't make it "good" (like the 6 cylinder cars), but they take it from "crap" to "acceptable", imo.
    I hear you from the standpoint of a sedan vs a wagon, but my thoughts are that I'm not making a track car out of my wagon, rather I'm adding some more power to an already good wagon with better steering. I don't push it hard and would just like something more powerful than the M54 that can be more fun to drive. Having a touring in general was never meant to be any kind of track car (as I found from riding in Brian's M5T both with and without the supercharger), but it can be fun to drive and still haul crap around. It's also not a terrible handling car, just not as good as a sedan M5 I guess. My point is that I was never saying you should do a wagon, but rather a 530i over a M5. I just don't see the point of taking a good S62 out of a M5 to put a S54 in it.

    Also, I never get bored of torque. To me, it's intoxicating and I can't get enough of it. I don't even rev out all the way on my M54 most of the time when I'm driving my wagon, so I don't really want to have to rev it all the way to have fun with it. Even that said, a S54 still has a good bit more torque than the M54 and you can rev the crap out of it if you so choose.

    -Paul
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    Knowing your usual cruising speeds, you're probably going to want both the 6-speed and the taller rear diff on top of that.

    If you want a 6-speed, an 04-05 (M54) E60 530i would probably be the ideal donor since from what I understand, the shift linkage and driveshaft can be used (though I think the driveshaft involves some weirdness of the e60 front "half" and e39 rear "half" or something along those lines). Same transmission, flywheel, clutch, etc as a 330 6 speed otherwise. The N52 cars with the "same" transmission have different bell housings, so you want to avoid those (it might be close enough to work, but probably not worth messing with).

    You probably have better resources than most of us to make a proper transmission carrier too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    If you want a 6-speed, an 04-05 (M54) E60 530i
    .
    Interdasting - that wouldn't have occurred to me... probably an M54 Z4 too... not that thats a common junkyard find, but it at least adds to the list of potential donors...
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Interdasting - that wouldn't have occurred to me... probably an M54 Z4 too... not that thats a common junkyard find, but it at least adds to the list of potential donors...
    Like he said, the reason is that you would already have the front driveshaft section to make the hybrid driveshaft I mentioned in my first post. I'm pretty sure any car with the gs6-37bz 6-speed would work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    I'm told the 37BZ is a really nice transmission, so up to you how much you want to do.
    Yeah as a rule the ZF's are much more pleasant shifters than the klunky Getrags...

    I'd be tempted to go that way, although arguing the other way for Ian is that he's already got three 420G's in the family so if he extends it to 4 then, like me, maybe he can just start keeping extra 420G's in the basement as spares.

    I'm guessing the ZF's are more thick on the ground tho and less in demand than the damn virtually unrepairable Getrags, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Yeah as a rule the ZF's are much more pleasant shifters than the klunky Getrags...

    I'd be tempted to go that way, although arguing the other way for Ian is that he's already got three 420G's in the family so if he extends it to 4 then, like me, maybe he can just start keeping extra 420G's in the basement as spares.

    I'm guessing the ZF's are more thick on the ground tho and less in demand than the damn virtually unrepairable Getrags, right?
    The ZF definitely shifts nicer. Almost tempted to throw one in my M3 (if my 420G ever fails, I will).

    The ZFs aren't really repairable either (BMW doesn't sell internal parts for any 6-speed transmission). They should theoretically be more common, but I see 420Gs more frequently online

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    I think it's because manuals became less popular around the time the ZF replaced the Getrag. And also the cars that have that ZF are newer and thus not quite at part-out age yet.
    1995 525i 5-speed - Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    If you go with a 6-speed, you'll want to use a 2004-2005 530i front section of a driveshaft and mate it to the original rear section from your car.
    Is the front section the same on automatic and manual 04-05 530i's?

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    Auto driveshaft is 42mm shorter. The guy (stück) who did the first documented swap used the manual front section: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...3#post26576553

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    I am doing this conversion on my 01 530i using a Gs6-37bz out of an 04 530i!

    I just want to say that GG, Blackknight, and Stück are amazing at putting good info out there, they are a real boon to the community.

    If you don’t want to fabricate a crossmember like Stück did, I found a steel trans cross member from a shop in Houston, TMJ Bimmers. It’s very stout, and fits great.

    Not exactly trans related, but Blackknight’s M5 clusters are awesome! I recently purchased one, and it looks amazing. (thanks Paul!)

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    My thought was basically...

    1) this car is nice enough that I think it's going to become a long term part of the fleet
    2) drive shafts wear out, so at some point it'll need a refresh-- this one already has 200,000+ miles on it
    3) drive shaft rebuilders I've been talking to seem happy to make me a hybrid shaft (e60 front, e39 rear), so....
    4) if I'm getting a fresh drive shaft either way, then a 6 speed from an e46 adds no additional cost or complexity, and seems just better

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    ... and call me crazy, but the final ratio in top gear at the wheels with the 6 speed and the automatics 3.46 looks to be almost identical to the 5 speed with the 2.93-- which makes me think I could get away without changing the diff at all, if I go that route?

    Looks like would put me at 3121 rpm at 80mph with the 6 speed/3.46 in 6th, vs 3110 rpm at 80mph with the 5 speed/2.93 in 5th-- which is also pretty identical to what the s54s I have are doing in 6th at 80.

    Feels like it shouldn't be annoying on the highway, might make it more fun on the back roads, and would make the project cheaper and easier (don't need to track down a diff or drive shaft, e46 transmissions are much easier to find) .

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    Yes, it will be a very similar ratio to the 2.93 and 5spd that came in the manual e39’s. I may try the auto diff just to see what the closer ratios would be like before going to the taller diff.

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