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Thread: Fan Delete and Now Overheating

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by danomite View Post
    First of all: To anyone considering a SPAL fan, do not get this straight blade fan! Get the curved blade design (Model # 30102049)...it's WAY quieter, and flows over 25% more air! If you run the system like this, you will be using the SPAL fan as your main fan...since the 185F (85C) will trigger before the sensor/switch for the aux fan. Our cars came with a 99C (210F), and the optional lower temp 88C (190F) switch is still higher than that 185F switch. If you do want to run the SPAL fan as the main fan, I'd recommend a 195F switch/relay, a PWM module (Derale makes a decent one, and the stock 99C (210F) aux fan sensor/switch in the radiator. Other wise you'll be running your fan only at 100% duty, and the hard on/off triggering will certainly shorten the lifespan of the fan.
    Your overconfidence confuses me.

    First of all I don't think narrow curved blade design fan will allow me to switch to bigger radiator (maybe I will give Zionsville another try) and fit supercharger in future.
    Yes, the plan is to use Spal fan as main fan (as substitute to clutch fan, which currently is main fan). The sensor switch of the aux fan is on top of radiator, spal sensor goes to lower pipe, which should be cooler, hence the lower temp switch. And lower 88C temp in aux switch in my opinion is when it's already too hot (like an emergency). Will try my way (heard a lot of good feedback regarding this setup), maybe will add PWM later.

    Quote Originally Posted by danomite View Post
    You don't need to re-thread anything. They make temp sensors/switches with the correct thread pitch, and adapters for specific sensors/switches.
    Couldn't find anything on their website and seems they have shops in USA only, will be expensive shipping/customs fees. I don't really see any problem with buying $5 housing and rethreading (+$10 for rethreading tool). Sensor was already included in Spal wiring kit.
    Last edited by deni2s; 12-13-2017 at 06:04 PM.

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashgordan View Post
    seems if someone made a plug and play kit for a high end puller fan (are there better options than Spal??) for our cars there's plenty of interested owners... the above assembly of parts looks promising...
    Spal already have done that - just order two part numbers from spal I mentioned earlier and temp sensor housing on the side. Plus you can order different Spal fan fittings depending on your choice. No rocket science, tested, people have done it before.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubritter View Post
    Damn... Sorry to hear that, Randy. I hope you kick its ass soon.
    Likewise... hate it when bad stuff happens to good people :-(

  4. #129
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    Quick follow up:

    Hose got here today: in the straight section where I'd put the housing: OD is 1.530-1.545 (depending on orientation) - call it 1.540" for computations..
    the wall thickness is .160" .. so: before cutting it, it appears that the ID is 30.5mm... or: a 32mm adaptor is probably in order, but not a 38mm.

    Was able to find 210degF temp switches, with 3/8" threading (seems to be a pretty universal size), for a huge... $2.70...

    so now it's time to find a 32mm housing with a 3/8" thread ... :-)

  5. #130
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    I would have cut my spare hose open but I forgot I installed it on my M3 lol

    Following this closely, ill be doing the same on my m coupe soon. Temped to re-jigger my SPAL wiring on my S54 too...

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    I would have cut my spare hose open but I forgot I installed it on my M3 lol

    Following this closely, ill be doing the same on my m coupe soon. Temped to re-jigger my SPAL wiring on my S54 too...
    I'm still waiting for parts... damn - I ordered them 18 hrs ago: why aren't they here yet ;-) ... but my first move is simply going to be to install the hose with sender, and wire it to a LED on the dash: I want to find out if in normal operation the sensor is going to trigger, ie, give a false positive... I've had my phone tied to a sender in the OBD port, but that's measuring water temp in the engine... so don't have a good handle on what to expect temp wise in that hose... once I have a sense of that, then I'll wire up the SPAL... but this is feeling like a worthwhile project: with both intellectual and practical sides - the best type :-)

    As a follow up: looks like the "kit" cost is going to be under $10... the fan will be what it is, in addition.
    Last edited by gmushial; 12-15-2017 at 12:26 PM.

  7. #132
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    So you found a cheap housing for a 3/8" fitting? Could you post a link?

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubritter View Post
    So you found a cheap housing for a 3/8" fitting? Could you post a link?
    I ended up contacting the sellers - from the pics they didn't look like 1/8th NPT ports, so asked them if they were in fact 9.5mm approx., and the ones that got back to me said yes... I ordered a couple from a couple different sources... if push comes to shove, I have a 3/8" NPT tap and a 9/16 (??) drill, and I'll make them 3/8" NPT... but from the top prices ones, which visually look the same as the $4 ones, they all say 3/8" NPT... so: let me get a couple here, see in fact they are either 3/8" or can be made into such: then I'll post links.

  9. #134
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    ok. Thanks!

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanerPA View Post
    Rather than being dramatic about it, just replace it. I replaced the fan clutch and the fan on my car as preventative maintenance.
    Agree. What's wrong with replacing the inexpensive part every couple years and run in stock configuration? It is redundant protection that we only run away from when it ages and fail prematurely.

    Stuff. I got stuff.

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry F. View Post
    Agree. What's wrong with replacing the inexpensive part every couple years and run in stock configuration? It is redundant protection that we only run away from when it ages and fail prematurely.
    Up until a year ago, that was my position... but given the experience of last summer and the last 8 months: I'd rather deal with the risk of a aux fan failing vs a clutch and all the undue load it and the fan put on the waterpump bearings... and the fact that the only real exposure one has without the fan and a failed aux fan is while stopped in traffic in a hot climate... but now, given my experience [not to mention when I bought the Z the waterpump was about to fail because of the fan]: if I had to, I'd simply go as is: no mechanical fan and relying on the aux when necessary [as far as I can tell, doesn't come on 90% of the times I'm out]; but if I can go a step beyond that and better engineer the system, then I'll add the puller fan and a separate (radiator) cooling system [the puller fan]: leaving me far ahead of the stock system.

    Which leads to the thought: when I do the initial setup, without the actual puller fan, but just the sensor and the LED on the dash to see how often I'm going to get false positives; I'm thinking about adding two more LEDs to note if the aux fan is on and if low or high... anyone else have those thoughts?

  12. #137
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    Thanks, really appreciate that. helping......

    Randy, modest 10 lbs of boost in humid, ~90 degree climate. Fan delete still? Tanks!

    Stuff. I got stuff.

  13. #138
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    I have been fan-delete with one exception since 1980. As a starving college student, I was autocrossing an MGB. As I gained more stick and higher RPMs, I ran into a limit, the fan would suck into the radiator. Cost me three radiators, but only two fans. Never put one back on. I ran that car for years with NO fan in daily traffic. With a Ford diesel tow vehicle as the only except, I never owned another car with a mechanical fan.... until I bought this archaic BMW. I mean, come on. Even the dead in the water MGBs went electric fan for the last four years of production. The Roadie sounded like one of those damn old Datsun Zs when I got it. The fan came off very quickly.


    So yes. 10PSI boost in sealevel high humidity 90+ traffic with no fan. And I'm not at all worried about it. I have a backup cooling, if needed; the heater. Not comfortable, sure. but the heater by itself is more than enough to keep an _idling_ engine cool. Having spent several summers instrumenting these cars, I am far more worried about high load high heat fast traffic conditions. The harelip M bumper SUCKS.


    /.randy

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry F. View Post
    Agree. What's wrong with replacing the inexpensive part every couple years and run in stock configuration? It is redundant protection that we only run away from when it ages and fail prematurely.
    I replaced my clutch fan years ago only to have it explode a year later. In that case I believe that bad motor mounts allowed the fan blades to contact the radiator when I sucked air foolishly racing a 911 twin turbo with no gas in my tank (light on)--either that or the boost pressure bypass valve kicked in--or I was just pushing to hard with a new supercharger--anyway, the new fan exploded, that's for sure. Since it took out my new S54 radiator, I went with a custom Zionsville set up that deleted both the clutch fan and the aux fan in favor of a Spal puller fan and shroud. As I recall, the Spal runs off the same (but new) fan switch in the side of the radiator with the resistor set up (also new) for low and high speeds as the aux fan. I also replaced my motor and transmission mounts, and have since had to replace the passenger's side motor mount again. I highly recommend keeping up with the motor mounts--especially on FI cars. The Zionsville set up is incredible--it's how the car should have come new.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bingley View Post
    I replaced my clutch fan years ago only to have it explode a year later. In that case I believe that bad motor mounts allowed the fan blades to contact the radiator when I sucked air foolishly racing a 911 twin turbo with no gas in my tank (light on)--either that or the boost pressure bypass valve kicked in--or I was just pushing to hard with a new supercharger--anyway, the new fan exploded, that's for sure. Since it took out my new S54 radiator, I went with a custom Zionsville set up that deleted both the clutch fan and the aux fan in favor of a Spal puller fan and shroud. As I recall, the Spal runs off the same (but new) fan switch in the side of the radiator with the resistor set up (also new) for low and high speeds as the aux fan. I also replaced my motor and transmission mounts, and have since had to replace the passenger's side motor mount again. I highly recommend keeping up with the motor mounts--especially on FI cars. The Zionsville set up is incredible--it's how the car should have come new.
    Why did you had to remove aux fan when switched to Zionsville? Do you still have AC?

    I am also wondering how many of those fan exploding stories are related to bad motor mounts or bad radiator fitment...

  16. #141
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    The engine mount theory is a red herring. The engine moves the most when the mounts are at their softest, when they are new. The fan explodes when the clutch fails.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    I have a backup cooling, if needed; the heater. Not comfortable, sure. but the heater by itself is more than enough to keep an _idling_ engine cool. Having spent several summers instrumenting these cars, I am far more worried about high load high heat fast traffic conditions. The harelip M bumper SUCKS.
    Good point about the blower fan + heater = a backup fan system that we all have already... I would think fast driving would cool the radiator with airflow, but are you saying because you're behind other cars and they block good airflow into your radiator that it would cause difficulties removing heat?

  18. #143
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    This thread is making me consider removing my fan. The car has 54K miles on it and the original fan and pump. I get concerned when I occasionally take the car up to near redline to blow the cobwebs out.

    My wife and I used to have a 330Ci with the identical engine and it did not have a belt driven fan. While the radiator was larger in that car, I still figure I can get by fine w/o the belt fan in So. Cal. (unless I take a trip to Death Valley in mid-Summer).

    I can understand concerns if your ride is hot rodded, but a stock car should be OK with just the aux fan. Just my opinion.

    So now I need to find the delete thread and study what to do. It seems pretty easy to remove.
    Steve
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  19. #144
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    I'm saying the M airflow sucks. The bumper has the smallest opening of the three; it was patterned on the 4cyl bumper, then they took big hunks out of each side for the useless brake scoops. Yes. These cars run hot at speed in dirty air. Very hot in the right conditions. The system is marginal in original form with every piece of plastic and foam rubber intact and in place. Anything that unseals the system, broken or missing plastic, shorter S54 radiator, m&M belly pan, whatever, can make the situation critical.


    6cyl cars do not suffer this at all. It's purely an M thing.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubritter View Post
    Good point about the blower fan + heater = a backup fan system that we all have already... I would think fast driving would cool the radiator with airflow, but are you saying because you're behind other cars and they block good airflow into your radiator that it would cause difficulties removing heat?
    Though when it is 115F outside, one is sitting in traffic, the aux fails: not when one wants to turn the heater on full blast to save the engine ;-) :-( would rather have a real backup, especially if it is as cheap and easy as it appears.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 2002Z3 View Post
    This thread is making me consider removing my fan. The car has 54K miles on it and the original fan and pump. I get concerned when I occasionally take the car up to near redline to blow the cobwebs out.

    My wife and I used to have a 330Ci with the identical engine and it did not have a belt driven fan. While the radiator was larger in that car, I still figure I can get by fine w/o the belt fan in So. Cal. (unless I take a trip to Death Valley in mid-Summer).

    I can understand concerns if your ride is hot rodded, but a stock car should be OK with just the aux fan. Just my opinion.

    So now I need to find the delete thread and study what to do. It seems pretty easy to remove.
    I don't live in Death Valley... but close: saw 115 for sure this summer, maybe 116F... and that was what convinced me: had to drive in that and zero zero issues... but the aux fan was busy, both driving the a/c, and I suspect cooling the engine... but it worked, and from the phone connected to the OBD port, did a perfect job.

  21. #146
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    gmushial, yep... Redding can get hot hot hot. I'm down in south central OC (Tustin) and it gets up to about 105 on the hottest days. Sometimes we get upper 90s in December! Just over the local hills from here is Corona and the rest of the Inland Empire (IE). They are usually 5 to 20 deg F higher than here and we are 10 to 20 F higher than Newport Beach. When it's 70 at the beach, it's 90 here and 105 further inland. Mostly though, it's in the 70s around town. I might just have to take that fan off tomorrow. It will get nicely placed on a shelf.

    rf900rkw (Randy) - I hear you one that Datsun Z comment My mom's Mazda RX4 and my long gone Mazda B2200 Diesel truck made those same fan noises. It was especially bad with the diesel. I could feel the extra power once the clutch let go. When dealing with 58 HP, and extra 2 HP or so makes a difference.
    Steve
    '02 Z3 3.0i

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by deni2s View Post
    Why did you had to remove aux fan when switched to Zionsville? Do you still have AC?

    I am also wondering how many of those fan exploding stories are related to bad motor mounts or bad radiator fitment...
    Zionsville's instructions were to remove the aux fan altogether--the puller Spal is triggered at low speed by the AC, and by coolant temp at low and high speed by the temp switch. Their shroud makes such a good seal to the radiator, and the radiator to the condenser, that it moves more air across the surface of the condenser than the old aux did. That being said, I don't actually use the AC, except to check each year that it is still working and doesn't need a charge (which it never has--since 2010 when I got it). I only drive with the top down, and only on days where it is comfortable to do so (5% or under chance of rain, over 70, and up to 85). Our weather is so bad here that I don't miss more than a handful of days a season because it is too hot).

    I don't know for sure what caused my fan to explode, but there was a tell tale semi circular indentation in the cooling fins of the radiator strongly suggesting that the intact fan made contact with the radiator before exploding, and the motor mounts were definitely bad upon removal and inspection. However, I was also pushing the car way too hard, and, I think, I ran it out of gas for a brief moment when we turned uphill at max rpm and boost, which caused the engine to cough and lurch forward violently with the sudden release of tension. Something of a unique set of circumstances (at least I'll not do it again).

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    Anything that unseals the system, broken or missing plastic, shorter S54 radiator, m&M belly pan, whatever, can make the situation critical.
    What is an m&M belly pan?
    Wayne

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  24. #149
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    It's an improperly fixed autocorrect. MM, as in Mxxxx Motorosports, belly pan. A flat sheet of aluminum that was cut to sorta fit the underside of the front of the M. It didn't come close to sealing off the radiator, and didn't have the venturi shape of the original plastic (not sure if that matters). In other words, a waste of about $150.
    Last edited by rf900rkw; 12-17-2017 at 07:16 PM.


    /.randy

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    I'm saying the M airflow sucks. The bumper has the smallest opening of the three; it was patterned on the 4cyl bumper, then they took big hunks out of each side for the useless brake scoops. Yes. These cars run hot at speed in dirty air. Very hot in the right conditions. The system is marginal in original form with every piece of plastic and foam rubber intact and in place. Anything that unseals the system, broken or missing plastic, shorter S54 radiator, m&M belly pan, whatever, can make the situation critical.


    6cyl cars do not suffer this at all. It's purely an M thing.
    if the system is this marginal, why would anyone want to pull the Mechanical fan?

    I am really torn between fan delete or not. Maybe just replace the mech fan and clutch. I don’t race the car.

    Greg
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