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Thread: Fan Delete and Now Overheating

  1. #51
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    You get a fan removal tool, loosen the big fan directly on the engine (lefthand thread, go clockwise to loosen), remove the fan (leaving the shroud), and go place the clutch fan on Randy rf900rkw's clutch fan shelf in his barn.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LannVouivre View Post
    You get a fan removal tool, loosen the big fan directly on the engine (lefthand thread, go clockwise to loosen), remove the fan (leaving the shroud), and go place the clutch fan on Randy rf900rkw's clutch fan shelf in his barn.
    I removed the shroud also - assuming it inhibited airflow through the edges of the radiator... ??

  3. #53
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    "Fan removal tool" == 32mm wrench. Mine looks exactly like this:

    I like the unicorns.
    '99 Z3 Coupe - Jet Black/Black (1-of-114)
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  4. #54
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    My shroud is back on the car for lack of storage space. Besides I think it keeps dirt and water off such a large area and also it has nice lines for dress-up.
    The fan exploded eons ago and scared the heck out of me.

  5. #55
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    The inside shroud helps direct airflow through the radiator better; something about turbulence I think.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    "Fan removal tool" == 32mm wrench.
    I had problems keeping the water pump pulley stable while turning the wrench. Hammering on the end of the wrench didn't help, so I ended up making a fan removal tool out of a 30" piece of steel 3/16" thick.
    Wayne

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasmuw View Post
    I had problems keeping the water pump pulley stable while turning the wrench. Hammering on the end of the wrench didn't help, so I ended up making a fan removal tool out of a 30" piece of steel 3/16" thick.
    At least on the M52tu, I can't remember about the others, the belt tensioner has a nice place to put a 17mm (I think, it's been a long time) wrench to increase the belt tension. Add belt tension and the fan clutch removal is easy. No special tools required.

    Tensioner.png
    I like the unicorns.
    '99 Z3 Coupe - Jet Black/Black (1-of-114)
    '99 M Coupe - Estoril Blue/Black (1-of-82)
    '03 540iT - Sterling Gray/Black (1-of-24)
    '16 Z4 sDrive35i - Estoril Blue/Walnut (1-of-8)

  8. #58
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    To throw another variable into this... When I deleted the mechanical fan, I also replaced the water pump with a Stewart water pump. According to this company, the Stewart water pump flows 'up to 20% more' water than the stock pump depending on RPM.

    Any thoughts on whether this pump would be a benefit if you're deleting the fan?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasmuw View Post
    I had problems keeping the water pump pulley stable while turning the wrench. Hammering on the end of the wrench didn't help, so I ended up making a fan removal tool out of a 30" piece of steel 3/16" thick.
    There are actually layout plans for such a tool on the web... I think mine was also from 3/16" mild steel, but only 16 or 18" long. ... but now with the fan gone, time for it to collect dust ;-)

  10. #60
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    I think I've put a 10mm wrench on a water pump bolt before when I couldn't get the holder tool to work. Have also used locking pliers on the pulley (aluminium). I recommend neither of those.

  11. #61
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    The Stewart pump is certainly a nicely engineered and quality manufactured product, but I doubt that it flows more water than stock. I installed one on general principals, and am happy enough with it, but it doesn't spin any faster than any other pump, or use any different technology. The shroud works in conjunction with the puller fan to create a low pressure zone across the entire backside of the radiator in order to promote even air flow across the entire radiator core. Without a puller fan creating a seal at the back, it will not have this effect. A pusher fan will at best cool a circular area of the radiator directly in its path. Zionsville makes an aluminum shroud and Spal puller combo for a simple fan delete. Of course, the best option is an entire Zionsville radiator, overflow, fan, and shroud set up--and if you're going to spring for that, you can buy a Stewart out of the left over change--and why wouldn't you?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    "Fan removal tool" == 32mm wrench. Mine looks exactly like this:

    I have the cheap flat wrench that fits behind the fan. I can't use it because I have no fan on the engine. Will sell for $10.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubritter View Post
    To throw another variable into this... When I deleted the mechanical fan, I also replaced the water pump with a Stewart water pump. According to this company, the Stewart water pump flows 'up to 20% more' water than the stock pump depending on RPM.

    Any thoughts on whether this pump would be a benefit if you're deleting the fan?
    If it flows more at one RPM it will flow less at other RPM's. From what I understand it "supposedly" flows more up top in the upper RPM ranges, at the expense of flow at lower RPM's.

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  14. #64
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    I don't know where they got this graph (I couldn't find it on the actual Stewart web page) but this shows both to be the same at 0 RPM, and the Stewart steadily gains on the stock one as RPM increases. So it's never less than stock, just the increase increases with RPM. I have no idea, just what I've 'heard.'

    (click on the graph on this page)
    https://www.bavauto.com/ste30330

    Also, I kept the stock shroud with the SPAL puller fan. I'm sure it's not ideal, but it was about the right size. But since the SPAL fan rarely if ever comes on I guess it doesn't matter exactly. I guess if the aux fan ever fails I'll consider using the SPAL as the main fan instead of as a backup.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubritter View Post
    I don't know where they got this graph (I couldn't find it on the actual Stewart web page) but this shows both to be the same at 0 RPM, and the Stewart steadily gains on the stock one as RPM increases. So it's never less than stock, just the increase increases with RPM. I have no idea, just what I've 'heard.'

    (click on the graph on this page)
    https://www.bavauto.com/ste30330

    Also, I kept the stock shroud with the SPAL puller fan. I'm sure it's not ideal, but it was about the right size. But since the SPAL fan rarely if ever comes on I guess it doesn't matter exactly. I guess if the aux fan ever fails I'll consider using the SPAL as the main fan instead of as a backup.
    Which SPAL puller fan do you have (model #)? And given the size etc, are mount pts easily had?

  16. #66
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    The 2 inch thick, 16" diameter straight blade puller fan fits (30100400). I mounted it on 2 small aluminum rails which were bolted to top and bottom of radiator lip. Not a fan of those zip fasteners.

    I'm sure the aux fan moves more air, but it's a good safety for those who are worried.
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 12-08-2017 at 11:59 AM.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    The 2 inch thick, 16" diameter straight blade puller fan fits (30100400). I mounted it on 2 small aluminum rails which were bolted to top and bottom of radiator lip. Not a fan of those zip fasteners.

    I'm sure the aux fan moves more air, but it's a good safety for those who are worried.
    That was kind of my thoughts: I'm happy with just the aux fan... but would be nice to have a backup.. and if it never is needed, or doesn't cool half as well as the aux, at least there is some backup, just in case... wire it to the high temp side of the sensor?

  18. #68
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    When doing the the fan delete is it recommend to install the lower temp fan switch?

    Thanks

  19. #69
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    What is the flow rate of the aux fan?

    The one I installed is the SPAL 0516 16in x 2.48in 1610cfm (mounted to 2 metal rails as 328 Power 04 said-- basically you use pop rivets to attach the rails to the radiator).

    I wired mine to the high temp side because if wired to low side and for some catastrophic reason the temperature continues to rise to the high temp trigger, the SPAL would turn off when you most need it.* [Edit: this previous statement in italics is incorrect]You could wire it to both high and low temp sides of the switch, but that would require diodes or some such. I didn't want to mess with that at the time, or now for that matter.. So my spal remains just a backup.

    (*The above applies if you are installing a separate relay for the SPAL fan as I did, triggered only by the radiator fan switch. If you are taking out the aux fan entirely, you could reuse its wiring for the spal instead and it would work more or less like the aux fan except only 1 speed).
    Last edited by raubritter; 12-08-2017 at 07:24 PM. Reason: correction

  20. #70
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    Rated airflow and real airflow of a fan dangled hopefully behind the radiator unshrouded are very different things. Also you might want to glance at the wiring diagrams for the operation of the switch. Low does not drop when high engages.

  21. #71
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    Ah... thanks for making me look that up, Randy. I think I must have been getting the two things confused (fan switch output vs power to aux fan).

    The aux fan either gets power from the high speed relay OR power from the low speed relay, depending on the configuration of the temp switch.

    However as far as the output of the temp switch itself is concerned, just because the high speed trigger becomes tripped, doesn't mean the low-speed trigger becomes un-tripped.......

    I think I got confused because some writeups involve using the power wiring for the aux fan for the spal, so (unless you wire up both with diodes) you'd have to pick the output of EITHER the high OR the low speed fan relay. Then (if you'd picked the low speed relay) you'd have the issue of it turning off if it switched to high speed.

    And it isn't dangling exactly It is bolted to metal rails, and it does have the factory shroud (hopefully, I admit) assisting it.

    Would there be a benefit to having the Spal fan come on at the low speed trigger, so that both the aux and spal would be operating at the same time? Maybe help the aux fan not have to work as hard?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    Rated airflow and real airflow of a fan dangled hopefully behind the radiator unshrouded are very different things. Also you might want to glance at the wiring diagrams for the operation of the switch. Low does not drop when high engages.
    Randy - what is your suggested wiring if you want the SPAL as a backup.. I'm guessing triggering off the high temp side of the radiator sensor... and I assume a relay is needed given the SPAL is going to be drawing 8-10A? Likewise any suggested pickup points for ground and +12 so as to not look like a hack job? [I've read people suggesting the grnd and +12 of the jumper lugs... but that to me sounds like a total hack.]

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubritter View Post
    Ah... thanks for making me look that up, Randy. I think I must have been getting the two things confused (fan switch output vs power to aux fan).

    The aux fan either gets power from the high speed relay OR power from the low speed relay, depending on the configuration of the temp switch.

    However as far as the output of the temp switch itself is concerned, just because the high speed trigger becomes tripped, doesn't mean the low-speed trigger becomes un-tripped.......

    I think I got confused because some writeups involve using the power wiring for the aux fan for the spal, so (unless you wire up both with diodes) you'd have to pick the output of EITHER the high OR the low speed fan relay. Then (if you'd picked the low speed relay) you'd have the issue of it turning off if it switched to high speed.

    And it isn't dangling exactly It is bolted to metal rails, and it does have the factory shroud (hopefully, I admit) assisting it.

    Would there be a benefit to having the Spal fan come on at the low speed trigger, so that both the aux and spal would be operating at the same time? Maybe help the aux fan not have to work as hard?
    If the aux fan isn't working, that could be the mechanical fan, or the relay feeding it, or a fuse in line with it... seems to me - and very much could be wrong - but having the SPAL independent of the aux fan would be desirable [other than sharing the temp sensor], ie, let the aux handle the low speed, and high speed, but let the SPAL only deal with the hi-temp triggering... also I'm assuming the aux is a more robust fan than the SPAL, so only use it as/when necessary. No?

  24. #74
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    Yeah, that's how I have mine wired (as a backup for the high speed side only). Which works fine, since the aux fan is fully capable of keeping things cool.

    However... I'm wondering--- Could it help the aux fan to be less stressed (and maybe last longer) if the spal fan is running at the same time assisting it at the low speed setting too? In that case it might be worth having the spal actually do something instead of just being a backup.

    Also, let's say your aux fan failed. Then you wouldn't have any fan at all UNTIL the high side of the temp switch trips. That might let things get more hot than you'd want (on a trip, say). Just some things to think about. Now I'm thinking about wiring mine to the low speed side instead.....

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubritter View Post
    Yeah, that's how I have mine wired (as a backup for the high speed side only). Which works fine, since the aux fan is fully capable of keeping things cool.

    However... I'm wondering--- Could it help the aux fan to be less stressed (and maybe last longer) if the spal fan is running at the same time assisting it at the low speed setting too? In that case it might be worth having the spal actually do something instead of just being a backup.

    Also, let's say your aux fan failed. Then you wouldn't have any fan at all UNTIL the high side of the temp switch trips. That might let things get more hot than you'd want (on a trip, say). Just some things to think about. Now I'm thinking about wiring mine to the low speed side instead.....
    I think we need Randy to chime in on this... but my impression is that the high/low temp triggering has to do with the temp of the water coming out of the radiator and not the engine... so the high will trip, if the aux isn't doing its job [which could be a failure state].

    Any chance on some photos of your install, and your wiring?

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