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Thread: Exhaust and fuel injectors

  1. #1
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    Exhaust and fuel injectors

    Just a question on a different topic, well maybe 2 questions. I know that alot of muscle car guys have their headers wrapped in heat insulation tape or ceramic coating, Do you think wrapping my headers on my S52 E36 M3 might be of benefit.

    Also, currently I have all the big intake stuff, 993 HFM, 3 1/2" intake etc. M50 manifold, Schrick 276/270 cams, AA headers and track pipe and Randy Meuller tune. So, adjustable fuel pressure regulator would yield me some extra hp? And current fuel injectors several years old, and am considering having them cleaned and blueprinted, I think could help a bit?

    And specifically to Chris:......

    You say that an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and increase my fuel delivery significantly, But will my air flow keep up with it? i.e., my tune gives me a good A/F ratio via dyno, and I do have an A/F ratio meter with wide band O2 sensor etc. in the car, and it seems to be what I have been told pretty ideal, so IF I increase the fuel, can I maintain a good A/F ratio with what I have?That is, it seems, my airflow must be maxed out? Or maybe not?
    97 M3 luxo.some mods.

  2. #2
    dworthy's Avatar
    dworthy is offline Wagon meister :) BMW Tech Expert
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    I may not be Chris, but here is my .02 cents worth:

    Header wrap or Insulation tape, it just moves the heat away from the engine compartment. If you have hi underhood temps, this will help move some of that heat under the car. I would go all the way down to the end of the headers with the tape/wrap.

    As long as your tune knows you are shoving in more fuel, and the DME has the fuel map for that, I don't see why not. Of course you will need to put it on a dyno to make sure that the extra fuel is giving you what you want.
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  3. #3
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    I answered the same questions in answer to your PM. For others who may want to see the answers I gave, I copy them here:


    I wrapped my race cars headers. It actually serves two valid purposes:
    1) It keeps the heat in the exhaust, which makes it escape faster
    and
    2) it keeps the heat in the exhaust, which keeps it from getting into the intake.


    The VERY BEST thing you can do for your car, for the price, is sending the injectors off to RC Engineering, or Marren if you prefer (they are closer, but I have now ever personally used them, so I can't advise)
    $25 per injector, and DAMN, man, you've bought all the right combination, to actually NEED perfect injectors. Make them all exactly equal, and your DME will be able to make them deliver exactly correct fuel. Now....disclaimer....your injectors are only "a couple of years old"......I really would not expect significant variations in that amount of time, because you've likely been using top tier gasoline?

    An adjustable fuel pressure regulator can only give you more power IF you actually NEED more fuel. It's very unlikely that your stock injectors can't deliver enough fuel, but without watching live data under full throttle, I can't answer that question, 100%

    Until you know exactly your fuel mixtures, I would have to recommend against the adjustable regulator. If you have wide band O2 sensors, or even new 1-volt sensors, and someone to watch them when you go W.O.T., then you can determine whether you need more fuel.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  4. #4
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    Thanx again for all the info guys, I will be wrapping my exhaust headers, and as soon as I get the chance I am going to pull the fuel injectors and send them to RC.
    97 M3 luxo.some mods.

  5. #5
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    Um, damn, just noticed you're in the north a bit.

    You need to know that wraps hold the moisture and road salt next to the header.

    An alternative, if you drive the car in winter, is a header coating. There are some incredibly efficient coatings.

    The exhaust heat shielding is not worth more than maybe 1 or 2 horsepower, if your intake is already well shielded from engine compartment heat. I'd send the injectors off long before spending all that time wrapping headers. (You're not planning on wrapping them in place, are you? That will be absurdly difficult and will very likely look ugly.)

    Has the head had a good valve job? Cams are great, but if the valves aren't sealing perfectly, well, you know.

    Also, one thing I'll mention, because I've seen it so many times: make sure you're actually getting full throttle. Have someone floor the throttle, and then see whether you can make the linkage move more, at the throttle body.


    Just my 2 cents....

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    Um, damn, just noticed you're in the north a bit.

    You need to know that wraps hold the moisture and road salt next to the header.

    An alternative, if you drive the car in winter, is a header coating. There are some incredibly efficient coatings.

    The exhaust heat shielding is not worth more than maybe 1 or 2 horsepower, if your intake is already well shielded from engine compartment heat. I'd send the injectors off long before spending all that time wrapping headers. (You're not planning on wrapping them in place, are you? That will be absurdly difficult and will very likely look ugly.)

    Has the head had a good valve job? Cams are great, but if the valves aren't sealing perfectly, well, you know.

    Also, one thing I'll mention, because I've seen it so many times: make sure you're actually getting full throttle. Have someone floor the throttle, and then see whether you can make the linkage move more, at the throttle body.


    Just my 2 cents....
    Thanx for the input. From the top down, I really should change my signature, since I signed up here in 2002; this is not really an "M3 luxo with some mods", really a track rat, for several years now; race seats, roll protection, suspension etc etc. altho I still drive it to the track, sans A/C etc, and it does pass inspection, but dat's about it, I do take it out for "exercise" once per week or so, and it almost never sees rain, and NEVER do I drive it if there is any salt or water from run off after a snow storm etc. So not worried about salt and moisture IF I wrap the exhausts.

    And yes, I am going to send the injectors out first, within a couple of weeks.

    Way back in 2007 when I had sunbelt cams, had good 3 way valve job, all new valve train, new lifters, 9500 rpm, or so they say, Sunbelt "spintron" tested, so they say, valve springs; and since then new lifters only a few years ago, and a year and a few months ago, blown head gasket, so new valve stem seals and spring seats AND they did something with the head off the engine and inverted with oil or some fluid in it and let it sit with the valves closed to make sure the valves sealed completely, and they did, head now back on with ARP head studs and good MLS head gasket. And the engine does run pretty strong, but I am always looking for a little more hp.

    Won't bore you with the details but a couple of years after I had the sunbelts, I switched to the anemic 264/256 Schricks which I was never happy with, not much more power than stock, the sunbelts used to scream over 5000 rpm's but I had a stock diff then, so no low end torque. Now I have 264 gears, and as I think I mentioned 276/270 Schrick cams.

    And thanx for the reminder about full throttle, I am a picky guy so I have checked that in the past, but not recently, and I really should check if the throttle is opening all the way.
    97 M3 luxo.some mods.

  7. #7
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    Ah, well, Phil....I just really had a feeling you were something of a racer, by the way you expressed the mechanical stuff. Um, are you a member of BMWCCA? Ever think about coming down to VIR to play? (HPDE Long course, March 30 / April 1 I think....)

    Spintron and 9500 rpm? Okay; Sunbelt knows their stuff, and so do you, That said, the US S52 doesn't have the breathing for that, I don't think. Have you considered an S54? Euro S50B32? S62? (Sorry, I'm just like that, can't help it.)


    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  8. #8
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    Yes, I am a long time member of BMWCCA, and have thought about VIR, great track. will PM you about details about the other stuff later today.
    97 M3 luxo.some mods.

  9. #9
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    cool! another one that drives the car to the events. i do the same! sounds like you have the car pretty well dialed in.
    '95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!

  10. #10
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    Yes, Shadowpuck it is pretty well dialed in for the track, but always working on it and trying to improve it. It is pretty raw for the street.

    Chris:

    I guess the PM mode is a problem, so here I will copy what I wrote, some of this may be obsolete being my fuel injectors are on their way to RC in CA. for cleaning and calibration etc. Been in there for a long time, and one of the pintle caps slightly melted, maybe from the blown head gasket and some overheating.


    Anyway, would love to make it to VIR, altho a long drive for me, I think 9 hours, but I hear a really great track, big and fast, BUT some run off, not like Watkins Glen where almost anywhere if you go off track, you do NOT go "agricultural" as they say, it's either tire wall or armco, mostly armco!!...HA!

    I shall consider it, but how is the weather there that early in the season? After two years ago and getting snow the second day, in early April at the New Jersey tracks, I now don't start track season till late April or early May. But I think it is warmer down near VIR?

    As for engines, with all the money I have spent on this engine over time, I could have easily swapped in an S54. Didn't really know Euro E 36 engines were available. And two years ago was seriously considering an S54 swap, they "say" just headers and a good tune and you get 375 hp at the crank. And a few years ago, the word was that used S 54's getting alot cheaper and you could pick one up for a few thousand bucks, AND that a conversion would cost about 10K, being they say, one should refurbish the bearings anyway even if the recall was done, since you would have the engine out of the car and might as well make sure the bottom end is solid.

    BUT, I know a track hound, competent guy, who did the swap himself, ECU, the electronics etc. exhaust, everything, and all and it STILL cost him 14K, and that is with zero labor costs.

    So, too much for my funds a couple of years ago and now, so I figured headers and the new cams, and a good tune, so that's what I did, AND the car really does feel alot faster than it did.

    I don't club race, just DE's, but I instruct for BMW for the past few years. Have been a track hound since back to 2002 or so when I started and got "hooked".

    Just a note here about the sunbelts, to backtrack a bit. I had the sport cams, still pretty radical high lift and approx, the same duration as what I have now, but higher lift, with those sunbelts and the Schricks I have now have to shim to restrict the vanos, BUT those sunbelts screamed to 7600 rpm, BUT not good for the engine, they say bad harmonics and all, that hi up on the rev band. I do think they make or used to make "race cams" even more radical, Epic, Randy Mueller's outfit I think might carry them.
    97 M3 luxo.some mods.

  11. #11
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    I have seen an April 1 event at VIR with 85 degree temps, and also one when it was freezing, and I had to leave for VIR extra early to avoid the blizzard in the mountains of NC. It sounds like you have a great track car. My house is actually 4 1/2 hours from VIR. Oops, I'm late for work, gotta run!

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  12. #12
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    Well, Chris, you certainly know what you are talking about with the fuel injectors, I looked at my logs and in there for at least 10 years; I got them back in the car a few days ago, Friday before Christmas it was. BEFORE this the car idled O.K. ran pretty strong did not stumble or misfire or anything, so it was not obvious that anything was that off...........BUT.......got the injectors all back in, Put the #18 fuse back in and fired it up, somehow felt somewhat smoother right away, so took her out for a spin, let it warm up good, and hammered it and WOW, definitely more hp, maybe 10 hp more, not sure, maybe more? but second gear had to watch the tach because it got up there so fast, and broke traction in second a couple of times on the drive and 3rd gear, felt like it was going to take off.........when I first saw the report from RC, I figured I would be in for a pleasant surprise, my injectors were all over the place. 3 were pattern "good", 3 were "dripping" and CC/min. 224, 243, 237, 241, 246, 217.................Now all 249- 251. Pattern "excellent"..All the numbers substantial difference from before and after, HP at 80% duty cycle and various brake specific fuel consumption, whatever that means.

    Anyway, just very pleased with this relatively cheap "mod" or one might say remedied a slight "disease" within the engine.

    Thanx for the advice and suggestion Chris.
    97 M3 luxo.some mods.

  13. #13
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    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

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