"The shark"-E21-Overheating issue

[320iAman]

No, there is no bleed valve or plug, those bottom red caps you can remove. Yes a penetrating oil will work good on the engine drain plug,, I put my right arm under the exhaust manifold with the tool and with left hand hold the socket in place--its an odd angle, kinda pulled over into the engine bay.

Randy

[Lebindor]

I was able to work on my Shark most of Saturday since we got hit by our first eastern snow storm ��

I would like to thank all of you for the guidance, tips, methods, and support which really helped me solve my problem.
First test drive of 10 minutes today at an average of ~50 mph; preliminary results were successful with no overheating and temperature needle ~ 2 mm below center. 5 minutes were with the heat on hot and 5 min with heat on cold both with no temperature variations.

I will list below what have worked for me:

1. Changed radiator to Spectra CU759 with new aux fan temp switch and new rad cap
2. Using new thermostat at 71 deg celcius
3. New hoses all around
4. New temperature controller
5. New water pump with new gasket
6. New fan belt
7. Coolant prestone concentrate mixed with distilled water
8. Oil change with oil filter change

Sequence: (this has worked for me at least)

1. Empty radiator by disconnecting lower rad hose
2. Remove thermostat and empty engine from coolant
3. Jack up the rear of the car to further remove as much as possible with heat valve on full hot
4. Decided not to remove engine block plug
5. Jack up the front of the car as high as possible on jack stands
6. Removed all hoses
7. Removed old radiator
8. Loosen bolt and removed belt
9. Removed fan
10. Removed water pump (was not damaged but changed it anyway
11. Cleaned off hole and where gasket is going
12. Reinstalled
13. Installed new temp switch on the rad and preconnected the lower rad hose at an angle
14. Carefully lowered the rad in position
15. Connected upper rad hose
16. Connected lower rad hose to thermostat
17. Connected thermostat to water pump
18. Connected mid hose to engine but tilted upward
19. Started filling with coolant very slowly until coolant started to come out of the thermostat
20. Connect all hoses
21. Removed temperature sensor
22. Used a transfer pump to slowly fill engine with coolant using the temp sensor hole
23. Installed new temp sensor and connected
24. Filled radiator
25. Started the bleeding procedure by revving between 3-5k, blipping the throttle, for 15 minutes (I repeated this 4 times and added coolant to the rad as needed)
26. Changed oil and filter
27. Tested one last time stationary
28. Test drove and confirmed

I have some pictures below and have some more if anyone needs them.

Since you guys have been such great helpers, I was wondering if anyone had some extra parts or knows where I can get them cheap or used in good condition. I am looking for the following:

• Left side black cover behind the head lights
• 3 spoke steering wheel
• Tail lights
• Glove compartment handle
• Antenna
• Fuse box cover
• Recaro Seats

Thank you all again
Eli
IMG_2501.jpg IMG_2488.jpg

[charter21p5]

Very good news! I am glad your overheating issues are now resolved. As you know it wasn't too long ago I went through the same issue and my experience was the forum was invaluable for support. It's a great group of folks who really know these cars.

Again I am glad you resolved it so now you can enjoy driving the car!

You mentioned easteran... I might have missed it... what state are you located in?

[Lebindor]

Thanks Robert, I am in MA, 40 min west of Boston.

[charter21p5]

Thanks Robert, I am in MA, 40 min west of Boston.

That's cool. So whats next for your E21?

[Lebindor]

I have noticed that my auxiliary fan does not come one.
I have stock A/C in my car and when i turn the A/C knob the fan works.
I have the fan connected to the bottom of the new radiator.
What am I missing? is there a polarity to this connection? (there are two connectors)
What can I check to get it to work?
Also, does anybody know how to test a bad fan clutch?

Thank you
Eli

[charter21p5]

Do you have a digital volt meter?

[Lebindor]

I should have one. it is cheap quality though but i think i can use it.
Would doing the following diagnose if it is working?
Turn the car on, let it warm up all the way. Shut the car off but leave the ignition on and see if I am getting 12 V across the connectors to the rad switch?
How do I proceed with the results? (if I get 12 v or if I do not get 12 volts?

Also, any idea on how to test a fan clutch and see if it is good or bad?

Eli

[epmedia]

I should have one. it is cheap quality though but i think i can use it.
Would doing the following diagnose if it is working?
Turn the car on, let it warm up all the way. Shut the car off but leave the ignition on and see if I am getting 12 V across the connectors to the rad switch?
How do I proceed with the results? (if I get 12 v or if I do not get 12 volts?

Also, any idea on how to test a fan clutch and see if it is good or bad?

Eli

One wire (green/brown) has +12v with the key 'ON'. The other wire triggers the fan relay (via the coolant temp switch) when the coolant temp reaches +208f(OE temp). If the connector is jumped with ie: a paper clip, this will tell you if everything Except for the coolant temp switch is working. Don't short-out the paperclip to ground, make sure the paper clip has good connection.

You can use the infrared thermometer at the coolant temp switch, I think 208f is somewhere's near the 3/4 mark on the temp gauge. If you need a new coolant temp switch, a cooler than 'OE temp' are available.

Your '81 320i did not come with a fan clutch. Did somebody install one?

here's the electric manual for your '81, 4Mb pdf file. Please save a copy Now.

1981-1983
http://www.findmymerchant.com/images..._1981-1983.pdf

[Lebindor]

Hi Rob,
I actually do not remember I was rushing to get everything back together.
I looked again this morning with a flashlight and you seem to be correct. I was asking because I am changing the fan belt since it did not arrive on time last weekend.
If I am understanding correctly, connecting the green wire and the other wire should trigger the fan correct?

I saved the manual thank you and added it to the folder of pdf I have related to E21.
Next I am planning to change brake pads, rotors (maybe) but definitely the spring; when jacked up the left tire seems to drag when i try to spin it.

Thanks Eli
Thanks Eli

[epmedia]

Yes, make a connection between the 2 wires. Turn key to "on" position, fan should turn on. If fan does not turn on, double check your connection between the two wires.

[Lebindor]

Hi All,

Sorry to bother you again but I am in real need of your help.
I was in the process of changing the fan belt and decided to take the fan out. While the fan is out, I don't know what I was thinking but I made a big mistake by going around tightening the bolts around the water pump one last time.
The very far long bolt that goes through the engine mount snapped and the thread snapped. Now coolant is leaking from that spot. What should I do?
I know Robert you mentionned Permatex shellac. Should I use it and let it dry? What are my options?
Thank you for your help. I will wait for your feedback.

Eli

[Lebindor]

I tried bolt exctrators but they arent long enough. I was thinking to tap drill a 10-32 thread, open the hole on the water pump, open the hole on the engine blvok mount and use that. Is it a bad idea?
Thanks Eli

[epmedia]

Hi All,

Sorry to bother you again but I am in real need of your help.
I was in the process of changing the fan belt and decided to take the fan out. While the fan is out, I don't know what I was thinking but I made a big mistake by going around tightening the bolts around the water pump one last time.
The very far long bolt that goes through the engine mount snapped and the thread snapped. Now coolant is leaking from that spot. What should I do?
I know Robert you mentionned Permatex shellac. Should I use it and let it dry? What are my options?
Thank you for your help. I will wait for your feedback.

Eli

Crap. The motor mount, do you mean the A/C bracket?
Is any of the broken bolt exposed enough to extract it with a tool? if not, ouch - you'll probably have to remove the water pump to remove the broken bolt.

Probably need a new gasket too. The shellac (ie: permatex Indian Head) just needs to be a little tacky before assembly (read the instructions).

[okieflats]

What you do depends on where it broke off at. Based on what you say it's probably a bad situation. That bolt is 4 inches long and goes through the water pump, and through the front cover, and holds all that and screws into the engine block. In other words it holds the front cover to the engine block. As well as holding the water pump
E21 Water Pump.JPGE21 Water Pump1.JPG

First pic is very dark but if you can see it it shows the long bolt towards the bottom of the water pump, right side of engine.

So tell us where it broke off?

[Lebindor]

The best way to describe it is that 90% of the threaded part is broken inside the engine.
There is one bolt attached to the engine block. If I am looking at your picture it is the bolt at the very bottom left corner.
Right now i drained the coolant all the way, dried everything, applied prematex and put everything back together. I wanted to spend more time on it but I had switch to disassembling my snowblower. Let's put it this way, I have had better Saturdays lol

What are your thoughts on leaving the broken piece inside, tap drilling #10-32, making the engine block hole/water pump hole bigger, and use a 10-32 hex bolt?

Thanks
Eli

[epmedia]

Something you can try, if the remaining threads are loosely threaded, just an idea...

Wooden dowel with a smear of super glue (sparing amount, so no run-off) on the end of the dowel. After it dries, try unscrewing it with the wooden dowel. You may or may not have better luck with something else

*before trying the super glue; clean the hole and remaining exposed bolt with some non-residue solvent (ie: brake parts cleaner, q-tips/rags/whatever).

[okieflats]

Those are 8mm bolts. 8mm is about 5/16 inch. I once tapped an 8mm hole with 5/16 inch tap threads. Fine thread 5/16-24. Coarse thread 5/16-18 could work as well.

You saying you just want to screw something in there to stop the leak, as opposed to fixing it so it anchors into the block properly?

The air conditioning compressor bracket has 3 bolts that secure it on the front side of the engine. Two go through the water pump. The third is way down low, front side of the engine block way down near the oil pan.

I am thinking we are talking about one of the two bolts that go through the water pump.

[Lebindor]

Hi Rob,
I still have the screw that snapped, if i dry everything and put superglue on the tip of the screw maybe it will work?

And yes the screw in question is one of the two that go through the water pump and through the engine block braket. My initial idea was to thread the engine block, open the hole on the engine block mount and water pump hole but still have the hex bolt attach to the engine block mount.Not bypass it. II will explore the 5/16 route but thought that it wouldnt work at first cz its smtgh like 7.9 mm.
Thank you

[Lebindor]

Hi guys
Still no luck with the loctite
Is it a good idea to make a hole in the center of the screw, stick a tod and try to unscrew?
I am trying everything I can before I try to put coolant.

Eli

[okieflats]

So the end of the bolt, the threaded part is still in there deep and you want to get it out. Very difficult situation. Don't think you will be able to get it. The basic idea of broken bolt extraction is to drill a hole smaller diameter than the bolt and twist an easy-out into it. But I don't see how you could possibly do it given your situation and difficult access.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K34RS6M11uw

[Thecatmilton]

Hi guys
Still no luck with the loctite
Is it a good idea to make a hole in the center of the screw, stick a tod and try to unscrew?
I am trying everything I can before I try to put coolant.

Eli

Can you build it up with a mig welder and weld a nut onto it? I did that when I had a bolt break off into the waterpump bracket.

[Lebindor]

The difficult situation is that the thread is broken inside the the engine block hole. No access for a tool extractor and can not weld a nut to it.
Which option from the below seems the most reasonable? if you have time can you comment on each approach?
1-Assemble pump as is with prematex, let dry , and see if it leaks
2-Use an expandable nut inside the hole and assemble. (Will probably have to make a custom one)
3-Tap drill the hole to 5/16-18 or M9 , make sure surface is flat and assemble with and M9
4-Tap drill the A/C bracket in front of the hole to M10, custom make the bolt with a conical shape end, assemble. Bolt will thread into A/C bracket and apply pressure into the hole of the water pump.

Thank you all again for your help
Eli

[okieflats]

You need to understand how that's put together, and what the bolt does in terms of which parts it is clamping together.

from the outside in you have this, at least as per my understanding -

A/C metal bracket - water pump - engine front cover where timing chain is - block where the bolt threads into.

So the bolt is clamping all those parts and surfaces together.

One thing you could do is tap bigger threads into the front cover and use a larger diameter bolt. This would mean your new larger bolt would be clamping the water pump to the front cover. But not clamping the front cover to the block. But the water pump should seal to the front cover that way.

So you would be using a larger diameter but SHORTER bolt since it's not going all the way into the block. ALSO the pass through hole in the water pump needs to be enlarged, but NOT TAPPED. See the tap threads in the front cover but the water pump hole bigger, not tapped, so that way they get clamped together byt the new bolt.

But I am not necessarily recommending this, it's just a thought.

[epmedia]

Hi guys
Still no luck with the loctite
Is it a good idea to make a hole in the center of the screw, stick a tod and try to unscrew?
I am trying everything I can before I try to put coolant.

Eli

Super glue/krazy glue, not loctite. Try gluing the end of a new long bolt to the broken bolt on the engine block. If the broken bolt turns freely, this could work.

Be very sparing with the super glue, so as not to glue things together in there.
* or try a wooden dowel instead of a bolt, maybe 1/4" diameter (5/16" may be too big)

Fingers crossed for you!