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Thread: "The shark"-E21-Overheating issue

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Boston, MA, USA
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    '81 E21,'14 F30,'17 F87
    HI Robert,

    The coolant start leaking after it gets pressurized. During that time I am able to squeeze the top rad hose. Last time I noticed after I shut the car off that the hose was harder than when I started. I am still able to squeeze it but not to the point where I can block the flow. I will try to locate the charcoal canister under the battery and reconnect if I can.

    Hi Steve,

    Are you saying empty all coolant, jack up car, turn the car on with heat and fan on high, and start slowing adding coolant? Do you wait for it to reach temperature?

    Thank you again
    Eli

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    DFW TX USA
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    1983 320I, 1986 325E
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebindor View Post
    I am trying the simple items first. I will test the temperature using the thermal camera once I get it. In the mean time:
    1- I am changing all PCV hoses to make sure I am not running too lean
    2- I have ordered another 71 dec C thermostat
    3-I also ordered another water pump-I do not want to change it unless necessary but might just do so to eliminate this variable all together.

    Robert, i do not think it is the heater core. I can by pass it and bleed the system to check. or can I just bleed the system with the temperature on cold?

    Eli
    Changing the water pump isn't too difficult and if you pull the radiator out, you might as well replace the pump. You have to remove the radiator in order to gain enough access anyways. You unbolt the fan and pulley from the water pump shaft and then there is just a few more bolts holding it to the front of the block. The whole job took me about an hour. I used indian head gasket shellac on the water pump gasket to hold it in place and for extra sealing power. Then I flushed the system and filled it up with blue BMW coolant.
    Last edited by Thecatmilton; 12-01-2017 at 01:39 AM.

  3. #28
    Join Date
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    '83 323i, '82 320i, '06 mazda5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebindor View Post
    Hi Steve,

    Are you saying empty all coolant, jack up car, turn the car on with heat and fan on high, and start slowing adding coolant? Do you wait for it to reach temperature?

    Thank you again
    Eli
    Hi Eli,

    Yes, with coolant empty after t-stat or coolant change, I didn't have the engine running during the pour though. Once full, I left the car jacked up, cap off, heater all the way hot and fan blower on, started it up and let it run to push any small bubbles out. But honestly, I just drive the car for a couple days checking levels and add as appropriate. I have yet to experience an air pocket that caused any temp issues doing it this way.

  4. #29
    Join Date
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    '81 E21,'14 F30,'17 F87
    Hi Steve,
    Thanks, I will try this method next time.

    Update for you all; i just got my infrared temp gun and started measuring. I pointed the gun at various part but when I was recordimg the temperature I was pointing it just below the temperature sensor where the hoses meet.
    First results:
    First dash: 95 deg F
    Second dash: 135 deg F
    Right before middle ( where it usually is) : 169 deg F
    Middle ( i had to rev to get the temp up): 178 deg F

    I am planning to do 3 more full round measurments tomorrow to confirm that the reading is ok. I do not know if this temp gauge is acurate.
    Can anyone confirm i am getting correct readings?

    Thank you again
    Eli

  5. #30
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    04 ZHP, 83 320i, 00 M5
    1st confirm your temp sensor is good and the gauge on the dash is accurate.

    When the needle is at half on the gauge what is the temperature (using the thermal gun pointing to the temp sensor) of the temp sensor on the engine?

    2nd when the car is warmed up and at operating temperature what is the temp of the upper radiator hose, the radiator and then the lower radiator hose?
    Last edited by charter21p5; 12-01-2017 at 08:27 PM.

  6. #31
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    Hi Charter, i posted the initial temperatures above. I am going to do 2 more tries and I will check fhe upper and lower radiator hose as well as the thermostat itself.
    Thank you
    Eli

  7. #32
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    Your lower hose should be hot when the car is at operating temperature. When the lower hose is hot the thermostat is open. If you don't have a vacuum coolant filler then this matters when bleeding the system.

    Robert

  8. #33
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    Hi Robert,

    I repeated my temperature measurements. When the needle was just about the half way mark the temepratures were:
    Near temperature sensor: 179 deg F
    Uper rad hose: 95 Deg F
    Lower rad hose: 63 deg F

    What do you think? Do they make sense?

    Also guys I change the fuel filter this am; the fuel that was drained was yellow with some debris in it.
    I will try to post some pictures later from my pc.

    Thank you
    Eli

  9. #34
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    So the 179F number is good on the temp sensor and you should see a 30 deg drop from the upper to lower radiator hose which you do (good as well). What is strange though is why is your upper hose 95 and lower 63? That makes no sense.... Your upper hose should be approximately the same temp as your temp sensor and your lower radiator hose 30 degrees lower than the upper...

    When you captured the 179F on the temp sensor was your temp gauge at the half mark?
    Last edited by charter21p5; 12-02-2017 at 09:17 PM.
    _________

    1980 320i - Kashmir Metallic - Sold in 1993
    1985 535i - Cosmosblau Metallic - Sold in 1995
    1985 535i - 1985-06 - Delphin Metallic - Sold in 2016
    1983 320i - 1982-09 - Kashmir Metallic - Currently own!
    2004 ZHP - 2003-08 - Titanium Metallic - Currently own!
    2000 M5 - 2000-02 Titanium Silver - Currently own!

  10. #35
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    Yea the temp gauge was a bit below the half mark. When I was taking the temp measurments I was pointing the res laser beam at various parts for 5 seconds and recordimg the highest number. I agree with you, the top rad hose temp should be close to the operating temp of the engine since it will go through the radiator to cool off and return to the engine. Could it be that the pump is not circulating the water well enough?

    thanks again
    Eli

  11. #36
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    Aim your thermal camera at the metal parts of the radiator where the coolant lines attach and then check again...

  12. #37
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    sold 78 BMW 320i
    Quote Originally Posted by charter21p5 View Post
    Aim your thermal camera at the metal parts of the radiator where the coolant lines attach and then check again...
    Yes, this.

    And make sure the belt is properly tight/not slipping!

    The 95/65 while nearing 180f, could be just the t-stat not needing to open up enough to make the radiator do any cooling. I'm not sure when the t-stat is suppose to be 'fully' open, maybe about 185f? If the t-stat is suppose to be 'fully' open at (for example) 185f, this is when the upper area of the radiator definitely should read close to 185f - otherwise there could be a flow problem, ie: clogged radiator, bad pump, stuck t-stat. Also be aware that if the heater control is on 'full hot' (open), most of the coolant will flow through the heater instead of the radiator (during slow engine speeds) - so maybe do your testing with the heater control valve "off" (shut).
    Last edited by epmedia; 12-04-2017 at 01:58 AM.
    Tbd

  13. #38
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    Hello, just popping in to do my part for the forum.

    Thought I'd mention, when you're bleeding it, keep the cap open and rev the shit out of it. Wear some earpro if it bothers you, you're going to be there for 5-10 minutes. 3-4000rpm with the heater going is often what is needed to get enough coolant flow to really chop up those bubbles, as well as that you're wanting to get it hot enough to open the thermostat. I'm not sure if you checked your cap for pressure hold, but if the upper hose is hard whilst you're at operating temp, its probably fine. I've found them to be pretty reliable in BMW's. (Old Mercedes on the other hand).

    In addition, you may consider just getting a new radiator and double checking your water pump impellor. Easy way to tell if its working nicely is to watch the flow of coolant through the cap whilst revving at idle whilst bleeding. If the rate is high its probably fine, if its barely moving, you know you have insufficient coolant flow.
    "The most important thing is balance." - KT

  14. #39
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    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spectra-CU7.../361501560189?
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radiator-AP.../332410671320?
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/ProRad-Radi.../122541468225?

    I think this is the radiator Randy got. Same thing from 3 different sellers. It does not have plastic tanks. All metal. It has connections for automatic transmission fluid cooling, but those you just block off.

  15. #40
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    Thank you all for the tips.
    Robert & Robert,
    I am going to repeat the temp measurments tonight and will let you know what I get when i point at metal parts. Also Robert, I will take a look at the flow and see if coolant is flowimg through.
    I also went ahead and ordered a spectra metal rad and water pump with cast iron impeller. I will be planning tonchange these over the course of this week as well as an oil and filter change. Hope I get parts on time.

    Franz, i will keep your tips in mind while bleeding again.

    Do anyone has a suggestion how to split these changes? I am afraid if I change everytgh I wont know what was wrong.( unless it is somethg obvious)

    Thank you
    Eli

  16. #41
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    You can inspect your old water pump and if it is clean no rust and the propeller spins freely with no worn out bearing noise then the pump was good.

    My $.02 get the new parts, install all of them, then do a really good job bleeding the system. No air pockets is the formula for success. Do what epmedia said about squeezing the lower hose. Be careful though don't get burned by the hot hose or coolant. Remember the lower hose needs to be hot for the system to bleed properly.

    Also when I bleed mine the radiator cap is off. I watch the coolant level and like the Fran's said rev the shit out of it!

    I don't rev it that crazily but I do get it up to 3-5k rpms to get the t-stat to open. Set your heater knob to full heat when you are ready to bleed the system.
    Last edited by charter21p5; 12-04-2017 at 10:52 PM.

  17. #42
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    Cool

    That will work.. I drain the coolant in 3 locations, lower radiator hose, water pump hose to the thermostat and the engine coolant plug underneath the exhaust manifold with heater valve open, then close it up-the hoses, fill with distilled water or tap water( if not too alkali) and put in cooling system flush and run motor at idle for about 10 minutes, let cool down some repeat draining and close it up. Filling can be done a few ways when cooled down,, raise the front end of the car up by lift under the cross member, then pour in the coolant in the radiator till full or park the car uphill and add coolant, then run the motor with heater valve open and like charter said leave the cap off, you can do this on level surface as well getting the front inclined helps displace air pockets so bleeding the air out is minimal. I have two Spectra Premium CU759 all metal radiators, one installed and one new in the box. 2 yr warranty on these,, BMW Blue Coolant is what I using now, Keep the fan belt tight and use prestone or other belt dressing to keep the belt soft--when they get hard they slide a little instead of full engage and this is not great for cooling-the torque from the nose or crank shaft pulley is not small and varies with rises and falls of rpms.

    As too coolant 50-50% is good for cold weather, hot weather 75-25%, water / coolant. Water is the best coolant, yet has no antifreeze properties. If its really cold--then adjust coolant/water to fit temperature, for super cold---block heater comes into play.

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 12-06-2017 at 08:13 PM.

  18. #43
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    Hi guys,
    I am still waiting for parts to arrive to start all of this at once. (radiator should be here today). I followed epmedia link and ordered the Spectra CU759 as many of you recommended.
    I am using Prestone premixed 50-50 coolant.

    Do any of you have a clear picture of where is the engine coolant plug under the manifold? also what size bolt is it?do I need a special tool?
    I have included some images below so that my thread is not so boring.

    Thank you all for your help and advice again.

    Eli
    IMG_0229.jpgIMG_0232.jpgIMG_0866.jpg

  19. #44
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    Cool

    Yes, 19mm hex socket, ordinary. Right under the Engine Freeze Plug. If it has not been removed for awhile may need to use breaker bar or use an open end wrench on the end of the ratchet handle to get additional leverage,,right tight-left loose--clockwise tightens- counterclockwise loosens.
    DSCI0147.JPGDSCI0148.JPG

    Your All Welcome

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 12-07-2017 at 12:05 PM.

  20. #45
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    Thanks a lot Randy. Will look into it tonight.
    Eli

  21. #46
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    Beware: there are some horror stories about that drain plug on the engine block. If the threads are messed up badly, this could become a major problem.
    Tbd

  22. #47
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    Cool

    Spray with some pb blaster or other penetrating oil and change the horror story to a simple drama, I do wear thick gloves under there to prevent socket slip offs and cuts and a breaker to make it easy.. ,, From Randy's Garage and Coffee Club--you hand turn all nuts and bolts to get them started with the fingers, then its tool time,tools can't sense and reason- they apply force forward and reverse and or clockwise -counter clockwise, no cross threading here

    Randy
    Last edited by 320iAman; 12-07-2017 at 07:20 PM.

  23. #48
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    I will inspect and apply penetrating oil generously.
    I got the Spectra radiator last night. I opened it and it looked in a fairly good condition with no damage.
    There are 2 plug holes that are threaded at the bottom with red caps on them. Should i leave these untouched?
    I don't know what they are used for? Can anybody help please? I circled in red below in the picture.

    Thank you
    Eli
    1.jpg

  24. #49
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    Those two connections are for automatic transmission lines. You won't use them if you have a 4 or 5 speed transmission.

  25. #50
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    Thanks Robert.
    I thought so as well after looking up some posts.
    The temperature sensor should go on the left where there is a plug. Does this radiator have a bleeding plug?
    Thanks
    Eli

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