Finding of limits of 540i Supercharged with superbad gasoline...

[dovlet]

I thought it might be something to do with the trims, but I really couldn't see on the video what is happening. Are the trims staying at zero even when the engine is fully warm and you are driving it?

It is zero. During driving not sure. Can check tommorow. What is your opinion basrd on current info?

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Give me any advise becouse when here is morning in your country is night. Do not want to waste time tommorow and try all possible and impossible things.

Thad, 4 mth already i cannot leave repair shop. Everytime somthing is happening. And you know what i am thinking? It is due to i started to drive it softly. When i drove it full load all time it was never had a problem))))) mistery....))))

[tptrsn]

Sorry, but without more information it is impossible to make a good guess at what the cause of the problem is. Impossible for me anyway, maybe one of the other guys might have a suggestion?

I think you at least need to drive the car a little bit to get it fully warmed up and see what the trims do. Overall it appears to me that maybe your tune needs a bit of work so the trims don't need to adjust the fuel so much, but again, that is just a rough guess, and not even really a good guess!

Also I think I understand that you just replaced the engine, did you get everything reconnected for sure? It's easy to miss some little thing. How about the little vacuum line that runs from the back of the intake manifold to the fuel pressure regulator (if you have that on a TU engine)?

[dovlet]

I thought it might be something to do with the trims, but I really couldn't see on the video what is happening. Are the trims staying at zero even when the engine is fully warm and you are driving it?

Sorry, but without more information it is impossible to make a good guess at what the cause of the problem is. Impossible for me anyway, maybe one of the other guys might have a suggestion?

I think you at least need to drive the car a little bit to get it fully warmed up and see what the trims do. Overall it appears to me that maybe your tune needs a bit of work so the trims don't need to adjust the fuel so much, but again, that is just a rough guess, and not even really a good guess!

Also I think I understand that you just replaced the engine, did you get everything reconnected for sure? It's easy to miss some little thing. How about the little vacuum line that runs from the back of the intake manifold to the fuel pressure regulator (if you have that on a TU engine)?

Bro, even when i drive car long and short trim is staying on same number with no changes.

[dovlet]

Why they do not work short and long fuel trim adaptation?

[tptrsn]

Maybe one of the other guys on here who knows ME7.2 can say which parameters cause the closed loop trims to begin functioning?

Dov, are you getting normal information from all sensors?

[dovlet]

Rest of them is ok. Looks like. (((

[geargrinder]

For closed loop, I believe you mainly need:
- Engine up to temp (good temp signal and out of special warm-up maps)
- Good MAF signal / no-codes
- Good O2 signals / no-codes
- No ignition failures causing them to go to failsafe maps

Now with these insanely complicated OEM ECU's of course there's probably 17 other minor sub-conditions and flags that are read in the code, mostly those are 'non-issues'...

However... thats all assuming no special flags have been set in the tune to turn off closed-loop.

Dov, are you on some kind of a special Frank tune now?

Virtually all tuners will turn off closed-loop one way or another with flags or parameters during testing / tune development so that its not messing with the logging... (ex: either set a specific flag, or, set a parameter like 'closed loop temp threshold' to 200C so it never reaches it...)

IT's also very common to do a permanent 'alpha tune' by flipping some flags to force the DME over to the open-loop 'failover' maps and use those as the primary maps just all the time.

If Frank has done either of those, then you'd expect to see what you see - those trims just never moving.

Also, in addition to the analog screens I always like to have quick eyeball on the digital values and see if something jumps out as being out of whack. Nothing odd on those screens?

[dovlet]

For closed loop, I believe you mainly need:
- Engine up to temp (good temp signal and out of special warm-up maps)
- Good MAF signal / no-codes
- Good O2 signals / no-codes
- No ignition failures causing them to go to failsafe maps
Correct. Nothing.
Now with these insanely complicated OEM ECU's of course there's probably 17 other minor sub-conditions and flags that are read in the code, mostly those are 'non-issues'...

However... thats all assuming no special flags have been set in the tune to turn off closed-loop.

Dov, are you on some kind of a special Frank tune now?
No, it is the same tune file which i run previously with no issue.
Virtually all tuners will turn off closed-loop one way or another with flags or parameters during testing / tune development so that its not messing with the logging... (ex: either set a specific flag, or, set a parameter like 'closed loop temp threshold' to 200C so it never reaches it...)

IT's also very common to do a permanent 'alpha tune' by flipping some flags to force the DME over to the open-loop 'failover' maps and use those as the primary maps just all the time.

If Frank has done either of those, then you'd expect to see what you see - those trims just never moving.

Also, in addition to the analog screens I always like to have quick eyeball on the digital values and see if something jumps out as being out of whack. Nothing odd on those screens?

Before, when i had an issue with lambda i made a video and put it here and in youtube, shirt and lung trim was moving. It is the same engine and same tuning file. Few days ago before i had a problen with my flywheel teeth my ecu was correcting every thing. All thing was working.

Strange...

[dovlet]

Meanwhile checked all connections, hoses, wires etc. Everything in place and good condition except coolant hose to radiator. I changed it today.
20171212_135734.jpg20171212_135750.jpg
Still trying to findout what is going on with my fuel trim....

[dovlet]

Still cannot find problems with my long and short trim fuel issue. Meanwhile is planning to buy AUDI RS2 Porsche limited edition for 15.000$
Is here any one who knows this car?
Screenshot_20171213-142724.jpgSmartSelectImage_2017-12-13-15-40-57.jpgScreenshot_20171213-142514.jpg

[geargrinder]

Oh yeah. I know all about the RS2.

Been in one even, which is unusual for Americans since they're illegal in USofA so you need to find a Canadian who has one.

My old Audi C4 S6 engine was fully "RS2'd" - i.e. modded to make it basically same as the RS2 engine.
Well actually mine was better / made more power because I had a custom bigger billet compressor wheel put in an RS2 turbo that was machined out for it...
That plus exhaust manifold and MAF mod and cam swaps and good tuning gets you about 300whp and a really nice powerband.

THAT car (in the pictures) however... is a bit of a Frankenstein. Certainly not an all-factory-RS2.

First giveaway is that its got a pretty hysterical E46 M3 bumper stuck on the front of it. Corner lights are all wrong. Can't tell but maybe grill is wrong? Maybe mirrors are knock-offs? Or maybe that's just the bad picture...

Two possiblite':

1. It WAS an RS2 but somebody 'modded' it or 'repaired it creatively' or something,

or,

2. Its a plain Audi 90 avant (wagon) and somebody built a 'RS2 clone' via engine swap and interior parts and the brakes etc.

There were also "S2 Avants"... pretty rare too, although not as high-performance as an RS2. An S2 Avant would be a good place to start to make an RS2 Avant, but you'd need to add the different RS2 bumper and grill, the real RS2 interior (S2 had some of the kit I think but not all) then some of the engine parts and brakes...

[dovlet]

Hi Bro,

It has a Porsche 5 cylinder engine but it does not work and laying down in garage. They put in it 2.7biturbo engine with 550cc injectors and big intercooler with ECU flashed for 400HP. Both turbo is died and should be changed. Thinking about k04. It has manual 6 speed manual transmition with 100% LSD switch on button which is automatically switching off after 70kmh or something like that. Front bumper they put m3 and head lights changed. I will have to work on that car hardly and let see what will be happen. GG, as I can see you are expert on this car and I need your advise. Instead of messing BMW forum by discussing Audi, it would be better if you give me some popular Audi forums where I can share my car and discuss about it. TQ

[geargrinder]

Oh my god that sounds awful. Sounds like a total junk heap. Was it originally really an RS2? Or was it a clone built up on an S2 Avant or a 90 Avant?

I'd toss that V6 by the wayside and get the proper engine working properly, then de-fuqup the cosmetics on that poor car... that M3 bumper and headlight setup looks AWFUL.

The I5 engine is the much more interesting and cool one.

Its not actually "a Porsche motor", it's an Audi motor with a little Porsche tuning / engineering. I think the only real 'Porsche Parts" on the car are the wheels and brakes.

That 20-valve I5 has some forged parts inside and is pretty safe into the mid-300's with stock internals. Do some rods, maybe or maybe not pistons, big turbo with matching manifold, and you're good for 400whp on that motor without too much trouble... do more like big valves and pistons, and the sky is the limit. One buddies car was making around 550 wheel with lots of goodies added. I knew a lotta guys who'd make 400 wheel with rods and big turbo and tuning. There's a guy in Colorado has made 700-800whp on an insanely built motor in an insanely built car (known as "Da Green Monstah", owned by Hap Maguire) and is supposedly closing in on 1000hp with his latest build.

The 2.7T V6 is OK, can also make a lot of power, its certainly easier to get to 400whp on that without internals, but a giant PITA to work in (as you know if you now have to swap the turbos) and doesn't make nearly the great noises and feel as cool as the I5.

Things to know about the I5:

• The factory 20V I5 motors came in B3/B4 chassis S2's and RS2's, and the C4 chassis S4/S6's or "UrS cars" (the C4 S4 / S6 is called the "Ur S" because it was the first "S" car... they started calling it the "S4" but renamed to "S6" when they started calling the smaller cars A4 and larger cars A6....) There were way way more of the S4/S6's made than the other cars, and the S4/S6 owners steal all the RS2 tuning, and then go well beyond it... so...
• Because of that if you are looking for engine tuning info, you want to be paying attention to all the "UrS car" forums/sites and suppliers.
• Engine codes are key to know. "B" chassis cars (RS2) and C chassis cars (UrS i.e. S4 / S6 ) have slightly different engine codes because the engine bay packaging is different. All the internals are identical, its just the intake manifold and cooling systems that are a little different. The engine codes you are talking about here are "ABY" for the S2, "ADU" for the RS2, and "AAN" for the UrS cars. This is important because a ton of the tuners and owners will talk about AAN tips and tricks everywhere. Most of that will apply 100% to that motor, except as mentioned for intake manifolds and cooling systems which have to be a little different for the B chassis car. There's also a "3B" motor which is a previous 20V I5 motor and kinda sorta is same thing but with less sophisticated engine management so you'll see 3B builds on there on S2's etc.
• Many / most of the big turbo big power I5's run an aftermarket ECU called "VEMS". Stock ECU is fine for up to mid-300's wheel but if you want to go beyond then you prob want standalone so you can flash it easily (factory ECU is a chip-removal type deal)

Websites... some of these will also have B5 2.7T threads and info but some won't, there'd be other places to go if that's (yuck) the direction you go...

S2forums - https://www.s2forum.com/
Project Pad - http://theprojectpad.com/index.php
Motorgeek - http://www.motorgeek.com/
Quattroworld UrS forum - http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/

Some parts suppliers for I5... as above, many of these will have 2.7T related stuff too...

Iroz - http://irozmotorsport.com/
Apikol - http://www.apikol.com/
034 - https://store.034motorsport.com/
EFIexpress - http://www.efiexpress.com/

If you want to use the V6, then I'm not nearly interested, but there would be other B5-chassis S4 websites / forums for info on that motor. There's a million of those things running around here chipped and modded and abused (tho' not as abused as that RS2 looks!)

Here's one link for info on the 2.7T - it runs ME7.1, a lot of that ECU has been 'figured out' but its complicated and ugly being a factory ECU

Nefmoto - http://www.nefmoto.com/forum/

[geargrinder]

By the way Dov - with all your cars... I gotta say.

If your gas is as bad as you say, and as bad as I'm guessing it is... ALL THESE ENGINES (M62, ADU, 2.7T) are going to suffer badly and keep dying on you.

You need to either:
1. lower your power expectations / mod aggressiveness,
or,
2. make lower compression a very very first mod before cranking up the boost, and,
3. be really really cautious / conservative with your timing and mixtures.

Hell some buddies of mine in the Audi community have blown up AAN's and 2.7T's by getting too aggressive and not sensible enough, and hell we have EXCELLENT fuel where I live (one guy has blown up his motor 3 or 4 times... I think he tends to street race for money and gets a little crazy w/ the in-car-tuning in the heat of the moment...). Now both those motors are incredibly robust inside right from the factory but that doesn't mean you can't kill them with a quickness if you throw crappy detonating low octane gas in and then kick up the boost and add too much timing.

If you want reliable power, you either need to lower that boost, or, get some low-comp pistons or rods for all your motors... or start importing race fuel...

[tptrsn]

Wow dude, some comprehensive info there!! I couldn't care much less about anything than I do about Audi I-5s (or even more V-6es), and I still read it all.

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Dov, we need more pics of your 540!

[geargrinder]

I couldn't care much less about anything than I do about Audi I-5s (or even more V-6es), and I still read it all.

Brother if you got into it you'd love that motor, it's right up your alley. It makes an amazingly great noise when built and thrashed. Nice fat turbo powerband, easy to mod relatively. Like the BMW I6's its super well / overbuilt in the bottom end from the factory...

[dovlet]

Wauuuuu. Deamn, i thought that i will buy it for selling and making money, but after reading all above i started to be in love with it. Tomorrow i am going to trip to 700km to have a look on that car properly. Owner wants 1000$ additional money for i5 audi porsche engine. It has excellent manual gear with button 100% lsd on rear wheels and other interesting things. GG, i am thinking to rebuild its own engine and lets see what will be in future. By the way, i have vin#waczzz8cztz000177 of that car. Appreciate if you can check it in community.

Tqvm.

[dovlet]

Wow dude, some comprehensive info there!! I couldn't care much less about anything than I do about Audi I-5s (or even more V-6es), and I still read it all.

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Dov, we need more pics of your 540!

Bro, which kind of pics you want? I am just driving it with no fire in my hard. Many problems i was facing with my 540i SC and looks like never end due to our gasoline. Even my current problem no body can solve. Some mystery is happening with my car. Even no body giving suggestion(((

[tptrsn]

Brother if you got into it you'd love that motor, it's right up your alley. It makes an amazingly great noise when built and thrashed. Nice fat turbo powerband, easy to mod relatively. Like the BMW I6's its super well / overbuilt in the bottom end from the factory...

I have no doubt that if they were readily available cheaply, and bolted to a reasonable selection of transmissions without too much trouble you're probably right that I would be into it. I do really love me some bimmer slant 6es so far.

Bro, which kind of pics you want? I am just driving it with no fire in my hard. Many problems i was facing with my 540i SC and looks like never end due to our gasoline. Even my current problem no body can solve. Some mystery is happening with my car. Even no body giving suggestion(((

Just anything. Car looks nice in the pics you put up, but we can't really see much of it.

As for being able to drive your car hard and like it, I think they only way that is going to happen is if you install a good stand alone, and get into tuning it yourself. The tuning requires some learning, but it is very rewarding and fun, and allows you to do anything you want to do. It has made me feel completely different about my 540.

Believe me, I understand your lack of love for the car with the DME impeding the fun. I was in that exact spot not very long ago.

[dovlet]

GG, what is the price with this condition for that rs2?SmartSelectImage_2017-12-13-15-41-26.jpg

[geargrinder]

I have to pass on price - haven't been paying attention... my friend Don was selling his in Canada years ago but then he decided to keep it... wonder if he ever sold it after all... Anyway, it should be on the very cheap side due to condition for sure, as well as due to location (no offense, its just that a collector will pay more for a car located, say in Germany or Switzerland than one in Ashgabat where there would be many more risks to him..)

Any "REAL CONFIRMED" RS2 will be worth a fortune in the future, kinda like an original E30 M3 etc. so even if it needs all kinds of stuff as long as the chassis and VIN are legit, it will still have value if it can be brought back to decent shape... Here's ones for sale in the UK 30-60k in lbs sterling, so, what 40-80,000 USD.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/108/rs2/

Those are collector cars all sorted and working and proper bits etc. obviously, but it shows that as long as the VIN & chassis are real, basically a wrecked shell is even gonna be worth a bunch as long as someone can restore it.

VIN wise.... That number looks goofy at first take, but according to this post, it sounds like it could absolutely be legit.

http://www.vask.org.nz/index.php/top...html#msg130170

The bumper will be EXTREMELY hard to source, although there may be replicas available since every guy w/ an Audi 80 / 90 wants one typically...

[geargrinder]

I have no doubt that if they were readily available cheaply, and bolted to a reasonable selection of transmissions without too much trouble you're probably right that I would be into it. I do really love me some bimmer slant 6es so far. .

Tell me this stuff isn't right up your street...

When winter comes i always wonder WTF I don't have a big power turbo quattro anymore...

[tptrsn]

That second video is pretty damn sweet!

[geargrinder]

That second video is pretty damn sweet!

Heh heh thought youd likey.

The first one is good for the Blow-off / Wastegate sounds, AND, the fact he just randomly drives off into a rec field in a spot where there's clearly no road....

The 2nd one is obv great for the real high speed sideways 4-wheels-spinning sideways drift action.

When i was a dyed-in-the-wool-quattrochik I used to know the where & when of the ice-driving events, but all dropped out of that scene these days.

The guys who buy the new Audi S & RS cars are not real hotrod-cars-are-for-thrashin-'em-sideways car guys so much anyway... Seems like its lots of shiny-show-car garage-queen bragging, or, looks-not-function slamtards these days....

#threadjackapalooza

[tptrsn]

5-cylinder noizes..... Mmmmm: