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Thread: Looking at an M3, Opinions?

  1. #1
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    Question Looking at an M3, Opinions?

    Hello everyone,
    I am currently looking at an E46 M3 at my local car dealership.
    I wanted to look for some opinions before I move forward at getting approved for a loan for the car.
    The M3 is a 2004 with 150,230 miles on it, I test drove the car today for a little while and it had plenty of power.....plenty of it.
    The car is in rough shape, there is a slight dent in the driver side door, faded emblems, worn out rear window seals, kinda jacked up front bumper, missing the sunroof control module etc.
    But mechanically the car seems to be pretty sound, I looked under the car very thoroughly and did not find any real issues, I did find residual oil under the rear diff but when questioned the salesman stated that it was a previous oil leak before the carrier bearing in the rear diff was replaced, when I asked to talk to the tech that did the work, he seemed to know his stuff.
    I have worked as a mechanic for the past 5 years, so I know my way around cars, including German made ones.

    So here are my basic questions.

    1. The car seems to have a slight tick when running, which seems to me to be normal for BMW straight 6's, thoughts on that? with 150k is this a disaster waiting to happen? I have asked around and everyone has assured me that the M3 motor is a really reliable and stout motor as long as it is maintained. the transmission shifts very good, and the clutch seems to be in good health.
    2. When driving the car I noticed a shimmy at around 68 - 70 MPH, When tire pressures were checked, it was low, filled them up and test drove again and the shimmy was very much improved, when I checked tie rods they were tight and no other suspension components were loose or damaged, the guy is having the wheels balanced tomorrow. thoughts?
    3. While the car was parked and I was talking to the sales man, I noticed that the fans were running all the time but no were near high speed, but the car never overheated, is this normal to keep to the engine cool during parked conditions?
    4. When I arrived from test driving another car, the M3 battery was dead, which seems to be very common for a lot of BMW's I have worked on if you dont drive them for a couple short days, is it a short possibly, known issue?
    5. Overall is this a good investment to put my time and effort into? the car seems to have some very good potential but this is my first encounter with an M3, from the research I have done it seems to be a good deal but I am uncertain and would like a second look.

    The car seems to be unmolested, the only mods it has is wiring for Subs, aftermarket "smart" radio (looks like an android tablet, but very clean looking), and an exhaust. but the look of it is obviously in rough shape, its a 15 footer car.
    Driving the car today was very intoxifying, and I loved every second of it, but I understand that if I need to walk away I will, this is just my first encounter with an M3, it was not listed on craigslist or anything, just a local dealer that I called and when I showed up he just happened to have an M3 on the lot.
    The salesman was honestly very cool and after working at a car dealership for 2 years he is definitely not one of the shady ones, we had a couple laughs and good conversation (both military) and he seems to know his stuff about cars as well.
    He offering the car for 10,500 but after a long conversation I was able to talk him down to around high 9's, I believe that he purchased the car for around 8,500 (from my experience dealing with auction cars) I have some pictures to include if that would help, like I said I am just looking for other people thoughts on this car.

    Sorry for the lengthy questions, I appreciate any input anyone can add to the conversation, just looking for a nice project car I can work on and enjoy after work.
    Last edited by ven0m; 11-18-2017 at 11:42 PM.

  2. #2
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    I have been looking around at E46 M3's in my area. From your description, I would keep looking. I've seen far better examples for right around that price or just slightly more. It's awesome that you are enthusiastic about that model M3, but just keep in mind it doesn't have to be THAT one.

  3. #3
    MauiM3Mania's Avatar
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    I moved your post to the E46 M3 sub-forum, you're likely to get more input here.

    +1 on what Deus had to say. I'd suggest a PPI (pre purchase inspection) even though you are a tech. Get a PPI by someone who is familiar with BMW, a euro shop at a minimum. A few bucks now can save you many dollars later.

    The ticking is likely the lifters (solid). Typical. Is there any paperwork, past maintenance history? Lifters need checking and adjustment every 25K or so miles.

    The shimmy could be a number of issues as with any car. Ask for that to be looked at when the PPI happens.

    Fans usually run after a drive, particularly if the a/c is on. The S54 is a performance engine and tends to run hot, which is fine so long as the cooling system is up to snuff.

    A dead battery points to some issue and it's not typical for BMWs. I was off island for close to a month. My 04 fired up like it was last run that morning.

    The words investment and used M-cars shouldn't be used in the same sentence. :-) A PPI will give you a better idea. What wheels are on the car? The black trim/wheels look on a light colored car is for some, not so much for me.

    Hopefully, dworthy will join in with his input.
    04M3 TiAg 69k slick-top 3 pedal
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  4. #4
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    Thanks for moving it, i didn't notice that there was a separate M3 thread.
    I told the dealer to bring the car in for a balance and have them look over the car, in my area there is no BMW or euro specialized shops.
    From what I have seen there is no paperwork for the car, but it seems to have been taken care of from the mechanical stand point, the car fax from the car was pretty uneventful, a purchase from Cali, moved to Texas with 34K and then no info until it was purchased from the dealer that currently has the car now.
    Shimmy or shake, we will find out tomorrow what the issue is, I have confidence that it is just a wheel balancing issue, but that is TBD.
    I assumed that the fans were on for that reason and i just wanted to make sure, it makes much more sense now, thank you for that info.
    The battery is old, and I have no problem replacing that and checking for draw, I didnt notice any electrical problems, so maybe it just needs a new battery, alternator is charging.
    I understand what you mean and maybe investment wasn't really the right word haha, more of a moral investment if you will, something that will put a smile on my face and not rods on the ground instead, i understand that some of these models had rod bearing recalls\Service advisement and I will try and call some sort of BMW in state to see if they have anything on that and or service history.
    I appreciate the input but im also wondering what you guys would recommend as a decent price point, i have been searching for hours now and i cant seem to find a steady price for its condition. somewhere around 8,500? lower? higher?

    Thanks again for your advice.
    Last edited by ven0m; 11-19-2017 at 01:11 AM.

  5. #5
    MauiM3Mania's Avatar
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    A quality PPI will have a major effect on the value. I can't stress a PPI enough even more so with zero service history. There is SO many spendy things that could be lurking, ready to ruin your day.

    FWIW, the rod bearing issue was the early years, 2001-2002 as I recall.
    04M3 TiAg 69k slick-top 3 pedal
    99M3 Cosmos 61k S50B32 euro 6Spd

    88M3 AW 43k miles Project FS


    WTB: 3.5" Eurosport/Conforti CAI

  6. #6
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    +1

    Any M car needs to have a PPI, more so since you have no maintenance records.

    If it isn't a salvage title, and it is rough as you state, then $8500 would be a good price for that mileage. The valve are adjustable on these cars, but you need a shim kit. It needs to be checked at every Inspection, which should be every 25k-30k. I just hit 98k and completed the second Inspection-II on the car and all were good except 1 which was a tad too tight.

    Now at that mileage I would be looking at a 3rd Inspection-II which is in the range of 1.5k-2k at a dealership. So it is worthwhile to use that as a bargaining chip. Also both airbags are under RECALL, so if you do get the car have it check out (see below links)

    These cars can empty your wallet very fast, so I would expect that 4-5k would be needed to bring this car up to acceptable in my book.

    There are several websites that can be very helpful:
    www.realoem.com
    www.bmwvin.com
    www.drvanos.com
    www.germanautosolutions.com
    www.bmwusa.com/safety-recalls.html

    Not sure if you have seen any of this stuff, but it's free:
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Darin
    Current:
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    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
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  7. #7
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    Okay, thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it.I honestly do believe that alot of issues with this car seem to be cosmetic. But I am going to take another look at the car and dig a little deeper and list everything that wrong with it so I can get a better idea on whats going on. What would you say would be the biggest turn off for this car? when you say spendy things could be lurking, what are you referring to; Bad Vanos, diff, trans, suspension components? And do you think the car is worth it if I get it for the right price and there are no "major" issues? I know that no one can make a decision for me, but like I said I would rather ask people that have more experience with this car then I do...
    Last edited by ven0m; 11-19-2017 at 09:40 AM.

  8. #8
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    Sorry for another post so quick, its not letting me edit my previous post's.
    In addition to what was said before, the only thing im really worried about is the mileage, but every one keeps telling me that its a stout built car, and as long as you put the money and effort into it, it will last a while longer.
    I'm just thinking in terms of loans and such, I would hate to buy the car for 9500 and then have 7000k in repairs then be upside down in the car, but like i said it feels mechanically sound, I just obviusly have no first had experience with how mileage effects the M3.

    I just want to thank you again for all your time, it means alot.

  9. #9
    dworthy's Avatar
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    From what I have seen, most E-46's M cars over 150k tend to be in rough condition. However there is always that 10% that will shine because there are owners that keep the car's value up.

    That is why it is so important to get a PPI, if they project that the repairs would be that high, just walk away and find another. It took me 6 months to find mine, it had everything I wanted and was a good deal for me.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
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  10. #10
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    So an update, I went to go look at the car again today..

    So to answer my original questions, I have some videos for opinions and I was able to look at the car a little more biased today because I wasn't so giddy at the sight of the car lol.
    So starting with number 1

    1. I got a video of the car running at all angles around the engine bay, https://youtu.be/30aPD75VX4E <--- Straight motor noise, and under the car noise. https://youtu.be/nSOtuBjKh6E <---- Revving the car whilst in it, sorry for the bad shot, the only real time I had to get a revving shot.
    Im sorry about the darkness, but I was only really worried about sound, the car revs nice and doesn't break up, thoughts?
    2. After the car was taken to the tire shop, the shimmy is almost completely gone, I think the rest has to do with the old tires.
    3. The fan question was already answered and I have no problems with it.
    4. The past few days the guy has said he has started the car with no issues, I believe it just to be a weak battery, and fault of the dealer not fully closing the doors and leaving the lights on.

    So after taking about an hour with a fine toothed comb, I took a flashlight to every corner and here is what I found.
    Mechanically Speaking:
    The car drives nice, has plenty of power, and shifts smooth.
    After checking EVERYWHERE I wasn't able to find any leaks on the car, the engine was completely dry and clean, the only oil I found anywhere in the engine bay was a slightly wet power steering hose under the reservoir and a wet but not dripping rear diff, which will be looked at tomorrow by me and a tech on a lift ( the work is under warranty and if it is bad will be fixed by the tech.) Can be seen here at the beginning of the video here, I know its not much but its something. https://youtu.be/DjENGPBy9S8

    Exterior Cosmetics:
    The car is honestly pretty good after second look, the front bumper is kinda tweaked, as well as the rear, it will need fog lights, corner lights, emblems, and a small dent taken out of the driver side door. the rims were confirmed to be stock base model 335I or something of the sort. everything else is pretty straight. and i will show more pictures at the end. It will need tires.
    I also looked at the sub frame where the reported cracking is and found no issues, no rust and its really clean.

    Interior Cosmetics:
    The interior is honestly really clean, nice leather seats with not rips, clean carpets, and no cracks in the dash or plastic, the only real wear to the plastic is on the passenger side center console where i believe the sun was hitting it and pealing that soft touch rubber on top of everything that BMW coats lol.
    The car will need, New rear view mirror, not cracked but has that weird brownish tint that looks like liquid that i have heard about before, don't remember how.
    Sun roof controller ( removed at the auction ) Rear overhead light cover, and a shift knob.

    The sound system works very well, and the car feels really good overall, like I said, i know its not perfect and i know you cant make a decision for me, but input is very much appreciated. The car seems good but i need input if the motor sounds healthy to anyone else here and what you think about the car overall now that I have more info on it. ( I did call the dealer and give the VIN he said that the cars info stopped at around 60k miles where it had an inspection and a clutch change. he said everything before then was done about on time, and that's all the info he had for me) Thanks Everyone for the info, and i hope these pics will help a bit more lol

    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...0027902344.jpg
    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...9989682344.jpg
    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...0027590344.jpg
    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...0120566344.jpg
    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...0158318344.jpg
    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...0193106344.jpg
    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...0193730344.jpg
    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...0194198344.jpg
    http://imagescdn.dealercarsearch.com...0194510344.jpg

  11. #11
    MauiM3Mania's Avatar
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    Your description is of a car that has been through some sort of ordeal and is still rough. Clutch at 60K? That says a lot about how the car was driven. Both bumpers being 'tweaked' indicates accidents, perhaps minor, and poor workmanship. I'd have to wonder, why the 335 wheels? No service history for the past 90K and the status of the VANOS and the oodles of bushings are unknowns.

    Your examination covered a lot of territory, a PPI by a euro shop is what will answer the questions that should be asked. The answers will set your mind at ease as well as used to bargain the price.
    04M3 TiAg 69k slick-top 3 pedal
    99M3 Cosmos 61k S50B32 euro 6Spd

    88M3 AW 43k miles Project FS


    WTB: 3.5" Eurosport/Conforti CAI

  12. #12
    MauiM3Mania's Avatar
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    BTW, a couple of your posts were withheld from public view by the forum software. This happens on occasion to new members before they get ten messages and is to prevent robo-spam situations.

    So keep posting, this issue will go away.
    04M3 TiAg 69k slick-top 3 pedal
    99M3 Cosmos 61k S50B32 euro 6Spd

    88M3 AW 43k miles Project FS


    WTB: 3.5" Eurosport/Conforti CAI

  13. #13
    dworthy's Avatar
    dworthy is offline Wagon meister :) BMW Tech Expert
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    I too would be worried about the VANOS. There are two tabs that can break-off on the exhaust hub, and when this happens, the motor has a 75% of getting toasted. These guys have a nice fix for that: http://drvanos.com/index.php/e46-m3-vanos

    Have you ran a carfax on the M3 yet? How many previous owners does this car have? I like to draw the line at 2 previous owners, for after that, a car tends to be just treated badly IMO.

    Here is a great place to fix that problem with the rearview mirror: http://www.radar-mirror.com/Mirror_Repair.html
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

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