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Thread: M50 Intake Compatible with Centrifugal S/C

  1. #1
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    M50 Intake Compatible with Centrifugal S/C

    I was curious if the M50 intake is compatible with centrifugal supercharges designed for S52 engines. I read that this intake provides a small bump in performance, however I want to make sure S52 supercharges will work with this intake. My goal is to get the M-Roadster boosted by spring. Let me know if you guys are unsure so I can contact the s/c manufactures.

    Thanks
    Last edited by BimmerBreaker; 11-19-2017 at 12:40 PM. Reason: clarity and searchability

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    You must be speaking of the M50 manifold. It provides a very mild (<5%) power gain at red line at the cost of a large hit on power (~15%) in the RPM band you actually drive the car. Yes, it will work with a supercharger, though some modifications may be necessary. The results will be the same.


    /.randy

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    Yes ment to say the M50 manifold. I didn't see any actual numbers on this mod. All I recall seeing is that you lose some low end torque with a top end power gain. It seemed like this was a popular Z3 mod which sparked my curiosity.

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    Replacing the well engineered factory airbox with a length of pipe and a cheapo cone air filter that sucks right off the radiator outflow is also a very popular mod. Doesn't mean it's a good one.


    /.randy

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    The difference between supercharging and normal aspiration is night and day--100 hp. You don't need to pursue other modifications like a manifold swap if you're going to supercharge it. I recommend rebuilding the VANOS before supercharging to get a true sense of the car's potential and of the but dyno gains you realize. When considering which supercharger kit to get, look at future modifiability as a consideration--i.e. is there a stage 2, or stage 3, available. Also read up on the tunes that come with the kits, they are not all created equal. There is an FI sub-forum here, and I recommend reading up on their posts before selecting a kit as well--there's a lot of knowledge there. You will also want to consider adding oil cooling if you go FI. Oh, and, of course, reinforcing the rear subframe/truck floor/differential mount.
    Last edited by Mr Bingley; 11-18-2017 at 05:20 PM.

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    Thanks Mr Bingley. I have been doing research and taking notes on the different options. In the next week I'll make a post seeking some advice. I grasped some of the necessary supporting mods but probably not all of them.

    One more question pertaining to the topic. Wouldn't the M50 be ideal for FI, obviously less air restriction?

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    But the M52 intake provides a shorter path for the air to travel to reach the cylinders

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    It's common to look at a supercharger as "cramming" more air in. That's not how FI works. The base engine does not change. It is an air pump of 3.15 liter. Flow through the engine is still controlled by the bore stroke valve timing, etc, identical to the NA setup. It still draws the air in by volume. The only thing the blower does is change the density of the air being drawn in. From the blower to the exhaust valve, the volume dynamics do not change. Either side of that, where the transition to/from standard density is affected, but not the intake track. Thus bigger MAFs and exhaust will help. But bigger in the middle is of no use.

    Look around the FI forum. Note the size of the charge pipes the guys are using for their 1000whp builds. Note that it is the same size as they use for the 500 and 300whp builds. This is because the base 3L engine dynamics doesn't change, only the density of the charge air.

    Look at Nick G's site at the stage 1 tunes for the S52. Nick is one of the best tuners there was for these cars. http://techniquetuning.com/e36m3scsw.php This is the man's advertising. IF an M50 would have helped pump the numbers, surely he would have used one. Yet all tunes including the 325whp Stage 1+ are with a stock manifold.




    This is my car. The red line is with the S52 manifold. The green line is with an M50 manifold. Nothing else changed. The runs were 6 months apart in very different temps; I don't trust the SAE correction to be accurate with FI, so don't look at the raw numbers so much. But do look at the shape of the M50 torque curve and the big honking flat spot from 4K to 5.5K. This is identical to the NA flat spot.


    /.randy

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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    You must be speaking of the M50 manifold. It provides a very mild (<5%) power gain at red line at the cost of a large hit on power (~15%) in the RPM band you actually drive the car. Yes, it will work with a supercharger, though some modifications may be necessary. The results will be the same.
    Sorry to be again bit rude but... Not really true, it is a bit like that but not that much when doing only manifold and no other modifications. Saying that you loose 15% is not the case, yes maybe you loose that from small few 100 rpm peak. And from elsewhere very little if anything, and tables are turned at over 4000rpm.

    BUT It is not at all true with proper cams, header and ecu dyno tuning which are must for this engine. And at 250hp levels M50 actually limits top end to unfortunally, after 6000 rpm it limits a lot compared to right ITB's with proper running lenght. Where M50 shines over M52/S52 manifold is 5000-6000rpm, very narrow band but for my use it is more rewarding band than about 2500-3500rpm where M52/S52 manifold peaks. Both are actually quite rubbish 25 and 20 year old designs.

    Cliff notes: Stock cams are too small for M50 manifold to work in both engines, With proper cams and Vanos tuning and everything else there are lot more to the engine, then it works with both M52 and M50 manifold but M50 should peak little later with more top end and M52 rises earlier to peak. Both start to limit at the high revs, only M52 does it bit faster.
    Last edited by Remotion; 11-19-2017 at 01:14 PM.

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    Thanks -rf900rkw

    Off topic, doesn't Randy Forbes have a website or do you have to call him?

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    Randy Forbes can be summoned by dragging a torn diff mount across pavement and then hitting your steering wheel three times

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    I was only hoping to say his name three times like BeetleJuice, without having parts destroyed.

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    Randy's website is spcarsplus.com, and you can email him at Erandyforbes@aol.com. His phone number is listed on his site.

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