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Thread: No phone speaker audio after bluetooth upgrade?

  1. #1
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    No phone speaker audio after bluetooth upgrade?

    Anybody run into this before:

    Removed factory phone unit, the black box in the trunk and installed a new Bluetooth TCU (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partxref?q=84106963798).

    It appears to be working: mutes CD player when call comes in, microphone is working... etc. However no sound on the speakers. All volumes are up both on phone and car.

    I used to have that ugly middle center phone what I have replaced to a nice EU armrest. I wonder if you need to do something there too?

    Or just speaker wiring issue? Is the phone audio sent to all speakers or only one? Maybe previous owner replaced a speaker and didnt connect phone audio back or something similar.

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    - - - Updated - - -

    By the way, I have followed Frankie's great DIY: http://www.frankies-bmw.com/7series/..._bluetooth.php

    Many thanks for it!

  2. #2
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    I put an OEM TCU back in 06-07. at the time it was the latest available, generation 9 i believe. worked fine for years. I was even pleasantly surprised when i could press the steering wheel button and use "hey siri" and I could hear navigation directions. I'm not sure when, if it was during an iOS update, or the unit just crapped out, but it was just as you describe. I could "see" on my phone that the BT mic was picking up my voice, but I couldn't hear anything. Just recently I notice that "telephone" was coming and going between lit up or grayed out, and sometimes missing completely, so I think the TCU just crapped the bed all together at this point. Would love to have a electronics tech take a look at it but probably cost more than worth it.
    only one speaker is connected in BT mode. the drivers door i think.

    EDIT: I have/had a ULF, though i'm not sure exactly the difference. Either way same thing. Seemed like it was working but couldn't hear anything.
    Last edited by RIboater; 11-17-2017 at 06:57 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIboater View Post
    I put an OEM TCU back in 06-07. at the time it was the latest available, generation 9 i believe. worked fine for years. I was even pleasantly surprised when i could press the steering wheel button and use "hey siri" and I could hear navigation directions. I'm not sure when, if it was during an iOS update, or the unit just crapped out, but it was just as you describe. I could "see" on my phone that the BT mic was picking up my voice, but I couldn't hear anything. Just recently I notice that "telephone" was coming and going between lit up or grayed out, and sometimes missing completely, so I think the TCU just crapped the bed all together at this point. Would love to have a electronics tech take a look at it but probably cost more than worth it.
    only one speaker is connected in BT mode. the drivers door i think.

    EDIT: I have/had a ULF, though i'm not sure exactly the difference. Either way same thing. Seemed like it was working but couldn't hear anything.
    Interesting, could be the TCU (or ULF), naturally I bought it on Ebay. Maybe I just open up the door and see if all 4 wires connected to speaker, if yes it's likely the TCU. Thanks!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    ...no sound on the speakers. All volumes are up both on phone and car...
    Interesting. This happened to other person I assisted a few months ago. RIboater is correct: sound comes from front speakers only, which I believe are a dual cone type (one for music, one for voice). It's possible the previous owner replaced those speakers and didn't connect the voice signal. Otherwise, I'd suspect the TCU. But I have the exact same TCU in my car (p/n 84106963798) and it works mostly OK (although I have recently run into address book pairing problems).

    I'm interested to know the outcome...

    Frankie
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
    Interesting. This happened to other person I assisted a few months ago. RIboater is correct: sound comes from front speakers only, which I believe are a dual cone type (one for music, one for voice). It's possible the previous owner replaced those speakers and didn't connect the voice signal. Otherwise, I'd suspect the TCU. But I have the exact same TCU in my car (p/n 84106963798) and it works mostly OK (although I have recently run into address book pairing problems).

    I'm interested to know the outcome...
    Thanks again for the great DIY you put together, that's why I've jumped into the upgrade! I probably bought this unit cause you suggested it in your write up

    Removing the door trim today or tomorrow and checking what's there. I'm not finding a proper wiring diagram on the net, not even in my BMW TIS software. The only one I have seen showed a single pair coming from the amplifier and phone unit connecting into the amplifier directly. Anyway, it won't hurt to remove the door trim, doesnt seem too difficult. Will report back if figuring something out.

  6. #6
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    This is what Bentey has on Front Left Speaker, doesnt seem to me that anything coming directly from phone unit:

    Scanned Documents (1).jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by georgebest; 11-18-2017 at 06:21 PM.

  7. #7
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    Removed door trim, speaker installation looks factory default, one input connector from door harness and two smaller ones going to the smaller speakers. Could be the PCB in the door defective, wouldnt surprise me too much, since it's kind of a moving part. Ordered a new TCU, and will check what happens with it. Picture below of speaker panel, nothing exciting to see there:

    Speaker.jpg

  8. #8
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    Both of those connections are used on my door - one goes to the + and - mid range driver, while the other goes to the tweeter.

    I'm not sure if t
    he OEM Bluetooth module still uses the car phone's factory dual-voice coil thing, which would be prudent to know, but if worse comes to worst, I'd get a GROM and call it a day. It's not like losing a trunk mounted CD player is a huge loss these days. You can still call and stream music while saving tons of money in the meantime.
    E38 M Sport 6 Speed MANUAL

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanecarmaster1 View Post
    Both of those connections are used on my door - one goes to the + and - mid range driver, while the other goes to the tweeter.

    I'm not sure if t
    he OEM Bluetooth module still uses the car phone's factory dual-voice coil thing, which would be prudent to know, but if worse comes to worst, I'd get a GROM and call it a day. It's not like losing a trunk mounted CD player is a huge loss these days. You can still call and stream music while saving tons of money in the meantime.
    I'd rather not want a system where the radio has to be on to receive a call, also not sure how to use the factory mic with Grom. Gnom is a decent solution and I might end up doing it, but would much prefer the factory TCU. They are selling these days for $50 on Ebay, cheaper than Grom. Worth for me a few more hours of trial and error.

  10. #10
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    some e38's such as mine did not come with the dual voice coil setup.mine being 01.and after bimmernav blutooth upgrade it worked fine although i had to add the elk 800 amp for proper volume.

  11. #11
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    Hi,

    I've read about such issues and trouble when using OEM BT modules with symptoms like this. I'm a bit vague on the exact issue, but below is a gist of what's going on;

    In other BMW's (usually the E39) for phone calls audio, the front speakers (only the door woofers) have a dual voice coil and when a call comes in, the music audio is muted and the phone call audio is put through on the other voice coil. If you don't have those specific speakers, then the symptom is no phone call audio.

    I remember an M5 owner near to where I live having this issue and posting about it over on bmw5.co.uk some years back.

    What you must also remember is that as newer handsets come out, there's a higher chance it won't work fully with an older OEM BT module. With the new BT version 5 just out recently, next years top end mobile phones will use that standard and it 'might' just mean they won't work at all with older BMW BT modules or, only just work. The later oem BT modules might have better compatibility or might not. Currently, iPhones have the best chance of full compatibility and Android can and is a bit more hit and miss. Someone else with the exact same handset as you and on the same version of Android as you will find their unit works with OEM BT but yours doesn't. This is because there's different BT software between different mobile phone manufacturers.

    The best best would be to get a unit like the GROM which will have newer internal hardware and continue development as time moves on (assuming of course they remain in business long(er) term!)

    Cheers, Dennis!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCooper View Post
    Hi,

    I've read about such issues and trouble when using OEM BT modules with symptoms like this. I'm a bit vague on the exact issue, but below is a gist of what's going on;

    In other BMW's (usually the E39) for phone calls audio, the front speakers (only the door woofers) have a dual voice coil and when a call comes in, the music audio is muted and the phone call audio is put through on the other voice coil. If you don't have those specific speakers, then the symptom is no phone call audio.

    I remember an M5 owner near to where I live having this issue and posting about it over on bmw5.co.uk some years back.

    What you must also remember is that as newer handsets come out, there's a higher chance it won't work fully with an older OEM BT module. With the new BT version 5 just out recently, next years top end mobile phones will use that standard and it 'might' just mean they won't work at all with older BMW BT modules or, only just work. The later oem BT modules might have better compatibility or might not. Currently, iPhones have the best chance of full compatibility and Android can and is a bit more hit and miss. Someone else with the exact same handset as you and on the same version of Android as you will find their unit works with OEM BT but yours doesn't. This is because there's different BT software between different mobile phone manufacturers.

    The best best would be to get a unit like the GROM which will have newer internal hardware and continue development as time moves on (assuming of course they remain in business long(er) term!)

    Cheers, Dennis!
    I have to have the dual coil speaker cause the car has/had the integrated phone, it had to send the audio somewhere previously from the old, central device. That ugly one in the armrest. My guess it's either TCU issue or the fact that I had unplugged the old unit causing the issue. Like it's sending the audio first to the now missing armrest unit where there is now an unplugged cable. I might need to build a bypass to the front speaker from there. If only I had a wiring diagram for the phone unit...
    Anyway, swapping TCU soon for a new one and will see what happens. BT audio is backwards compatible, there shouldnt be any issue with early BT devices. Thanks!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    BT audio is backwards compatible, there shouldnt be any issue with early BT devices.
    This is my understanding too. So new phones shouldn't have trouble communicating with "old" factory TCUs.

    ----------------------

    A thought:

    Did you code the TCU using NavCoder? If not, there's a possibility it's not talking to the amp...which still thinks you're running the old TCU.

    RE: dual voice coils: as lad740 said, it appears 1995-1998 models had the dual coil set-up, or at least a separate phone signal going to the front speakers. See Bentley pg ELE-270 vs ELE 471 for 1999-on. My guess is, for '99-on, the amp takes care of switching off the mid and high speakers automagically. So the TCU has to talk to the amp for '99-on.

    Frankie
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    frankies-bmw.com

  14. #14
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    If you have not already figured this out; there is a connector in the armrest that needs two wire jumped.there is a lot of info on the net about it or you can go to Bimmernav.com and read their instructions on TCU upgrades.

    Anyways, I did not read the entire thread, so forgive me if your question was already answered.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris33 View Post
    ...there is a connector in the armrest that needs two wire jumped...
    I believe this applies to ULF installations, not TCU (and only 2000-2001 models). And the connection is located in the trunk, where the SES voice recognition module is located. Essentially, ULF's take over as the voice recognition device, whereas TCUs can be configured to work with SES modules by turning OFF voice recognition (VR).

    Then the question becomes: was the TCU configured thru NavCoder?

    Frankie
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    I have to have the dual coil speaker cause the car has/had the integrated phone, it had to send the audio somewhere previously from the old, central device. That ugly one in the armrest. My guess it's either TCU issue or the fact that I had unplugged the old unit causing the issue. Like it's sending the audio first to the now missing armrest unit where there is now an unplugged cable. I might need to build a bypass to the front speaker from there. If only I had a wiring diagram for the phone unit...
    Anyway, swapping TCU soon for a new one and will see what happens. BT audio is backwards compatible, there shouldnt be any issue with early BT devices. Thanks!
    [QUOTE=Frankie;29888003]This is my understanding too. So new phones shouldn't have trouble communicating with "old" factory TCUs.

    Hi,

    Although there 'shouldn't' be an issue in theory, in practice if you look over all the BMW forums, there's many threads where owners upgrade their mobile phones and find compatibility is reduced and/or in some cases non existent. The recommended route is then to try some of the later 'revisions' of the BT module to see if compatibility is any better. iPhones have the best chances of 'full' compatibility currently and I mentioned above, Android can be and often is hit and miss.

    There are members who have much more knowledge for the OEM setups and various aspects to try and test etc, the above is a report back of what many other BMW owners post up about for BT compatibility. Next year, as the top end handsets begin to adopt and use BT V5 chipsets etc, it 'might' be that compatibility with older BT modules may reduce.

    Cheers, Dennis!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
    This is my understanding too. So new phones shouldn't have trouble communicating with "old" factory TCUs.

    ----------------------

    A thought:

    Did you code the TCU using NavCoder? If not, there's a possibility it's not talking to the amp...which still thinks you're running the old TCU.

    RE: dual voice coils: as lad740 said, it appears 1995-1998 models had the dual coil set-up, or at least a separate phone signal going to the front speakers. See Bentley pg ELE-270 vs ELE 471 for 1999-on. My guess is, for '99-on, the amp takes care of switching off the mid and high speakers automagically. So the TCU has to talk to the amp for '99-on.
    That's an interesting thought! No, havent coded it. I dont think the module comes up in NCS Expert (probably cause not part of the original VO), but can do with BMW Scanner or probably WINKfp. Never really considered that it needed coding, but now that you are saying it makes sense. Will try and report back. Thanks a lot again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    That's an interesting thought! No, havent coded it. I dont think the module comes up in NCS Expert (probably cause not part of the original VO), but can do with BMW Scanner or probably WINKfp. Never really considered that it needed coding, but now that you are saying it makes sense. Will try and report back. Thanks a lot again!
    No luck, coded it with proper VIN but had no effect. BMW Scanner (P.A. Soft) can do a lot of things with the module, changing pairing keys, restarting, renaming etc, what an impressive little software!

  19. #19
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    Anybody has a list of compatible TCUs?
    Found this list but not sure if all compatible with E38: https://drive.google.com/open?id=15t...CHZtIpNYXgrb5l

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    This is the list that I used.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris33 View Post
    This is the list that I used.
    I guess any with I-Bus should work, plenty to choose from on Ebay. Will try my luck with a new one.

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    I think it is simpler than all of this. If your car is wired for the SES voice module, you either HAVE to have that present or the SES jumper in place to hear anything. The audio goes through that wiring harness and without the module or the jumper in place, the audio doesn't make it through to the radio. My SES module died the other day, so everything works as it did, but I can't hear anything. If I put the jumper in, everything is fine and I can hear the caller. Look up SES jumper. Most cars pre-wired for phone have this blue plug wrapped up in the back.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    I think it is simpler than all of this...
    My feelings too.

    George: when you coded your TCU, I assume you unchecked "Enable voice recognition", since you have an SES voice module in your 2001 E38? See:

    tcu_settings.jpg

    After that, you pressed the voice recognition button on your steering wheel and spoke "volume up", and confirmed volume was increased by witnessing the words VOLUME UP on your cluster message center? Finally, is your phone volume set to max?

    Are you saying that, even with your car stationary (no road noise), you cannot hear anything from your phone?

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
    My feelings too.

    George: when you coded your TCU, I assume you unchecked "Enable voice recognition", since you have an SES voice module in your 2001 E38? See:

    tcu_settings.jpg

    After that, you pressed the voice recognition button on your steering wheel and spoke "volume up", and confirmed volume was increased by witnessing the words VOLUME UP on your cluster message center? Finally, is your phone volume set to max?

    Are you saying that, even with your car stationary (no road noise), you cannot hear anything from your phone?
    I dont think I had that option in BMW Scanner but already sent back the module to seller and ordered a new one. Can't check it right now, sorry.
    Are you sure that I should have an SES module? I have this car now for 3 months, probably been missing a Bayern Siri all along?? Though I don't think I have one, see pictures attached. I assume that blue, terminated cable should go to the non-existent SES module.

    DSC06552.jpg

    DSC06551.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    I think it is simpler than all of this. If your car is wired for the SES voice module, you either HAVE to have that present or the SES jumper in place to hear anything. The audio goes through that wiring harness and without the module or the jumper in place, the audio doesn't make it through to the radio. My SES module died the other day, so everything works as it did, but I can't hear anything. If I put the jumper in, everything is fine and I can hear the caller. Look up SES jumper. Most cars pre-wired for phone have this blue plug wrapped up in the back.
    Racer, thanks. I think I have that SES jumper installed by default. Should be something else.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    Are you sure that I should have an SES module?...I think I have that SES jumper installed by default.
    It looks like you are correct: no SES module in your car. What's your build date? It must be an early '01 model to not have SES.

    In this case, you would check "Enable voice recognition" during TCU programming. Then, your TCU will act like Siri, controlling phone voice inputs (but no nav or notebook control). Be sure you get voice responses from your new TCU, since the only way to control system volume is by voice command, as opposed to phone volume. I found radio volume does nothing during a call.

    Do you have DSP sound?

    Frankie
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