E60 550 Sudden Oil loss, Now Bank 2 misfire (borescope revealed no impact to pistons)

[tcdesignguy]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?t=1146129

Please take a look at the thread I have going in the E60 model group... Wanted to open this up to more experts
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This was my latest post over there to a suggestion this points to a cam sensor
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Remember this is all related to oil loss and failure under acceleration... what about that would take out a sensor? Recall also when it failed I was accelerating and head a pop then sounded like I lost my exhaust manifold.. it was loud. Then car shut off.

I wonder if I shouldn't reset knock adaptations etc?

I'm working on getting INPA 6.4.3 working so I can get to engine module and erase shadow error codes etc...

Then I'll figure out where the cam position sensors are and try to switch them......

DME Codes are:
29CC-Combustion misfires, several cylinders
29D1-Misfire Cyl 5
29D4-Misfire Cyl 8
29D2-Misfire Cyl 6
29D3-Misfire Cyl 7
(Misfire codes are in the correct firing order) 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2

A0B4 Engine Start Starter Operation - Due to failed start attempt I'm sure

Using this site to decode DTC Codes from INPA - Works Great!! http://my.obdcloud.com/dtc_codes/bmw/dtcs?search=A0B4

[bmwdirtracer]

To our forum regulars:

I encouraged Steve to post his thread here, after answering a PM from him regarding the issue.

I've weighed in with my best guess, via PM, and I'll copy and post that here.

I know, no one likes to go wade through a thread at a different forum, much less a different site. But I believe there are a number of people on this forum who might have helpful thoughts.

Here's a copy of my PM, so as to keep all responses together:


Hi Steve,
Damn, I just wrote a long reply, while doing lots of switching back and forth between your long thread, and various resources. In switching back and forth, I lost my reply.

So here we go again:
From your initial post, I was pretty sure you'd find a big hole in the block. After all, you were down 5 quarts of oil, there were ugly noises, and the engine shut down by itself.

I found it very difficult to read through that thread, with guys asking whether your engine has more than one cam sensor, or saying they'd find it hard to believe the cam timing went out. (After all, the M62 is infamous for failed timing rails, and the N63 has a timing chain that stretches.)

Of course, the timing being out didn't cause the 5 quarts of oil to suddenly disappear.

The engine is ABSOLUTELY an "interference" engine. I'd hazard a guess that every engine built since 1980's 8 to 1 compression stuff will bang the valves on pistons, given a chance. However, Valvetronic can actually prevent this contact quickly enough to prevent damage....sometimes. The moment the DME sees a timing error, it puts valvetronic into "safe mode", which only opens the valves ~half way.

All that said: Anytime I've ever seen cam/crank correlation codes, the cam timing was out. Not a vanos issue, but a chain issue. (If a tensioner/ rail fails, that'll do it)

As for the INPA codes, I do not read numbers, sorry. I use ISTA, and Autologic, and even my lowly little Launch speaks in words. It seems to me that you have misfires on bank 2, and a cam correlation code for bank 2.

My 1st step would be to find the highest, furthest forward oil-soaked spot, and figure out how all the oil got out of the engine.

Second step would be to thoroughly clean the engine, and re-inspect.

And then I'd put the proper timing tools on it, and check and set physical timing. In my experience, cam sensors set cam sensor codes, valvetronic failures set valvetronic codes, vanos failures set vanos codes, and when you get a correlation code, the physical timing is out. Why? Something broke.

Where did the oil go? This is job 1. Clean the engine and find the hole in it.


I'd suggest that you start a thread on the General Mechanical Forum, let's see what the other pros there might know.
All the best.
Chris

[ptarditi]

The extreme oil loss can cause several faults, that might take several deletes to clear. The alt bracket seal failure pumps out as much oil as leaving the filter off. The vanos units can take a while to bleed out any air pockets from the oil starvation. You might want to pull the plugs and the and the fuel pump and crank the engine for awhile. Does it spin quickly without obscene noises? Compression and timing would be my next step. Inspection of the valve train,especially bank2's tensioner and guides.

[tcdesignguy]

Yes - sorry guys for linking to another thread. It doesn’t make any obscene noises, but it isn’t cranking over super smooth- it’s turning over like the timing is off. It seems like how it cranks changed each of a few times I tried. The first time it barely turned over then just refused to start. Next time it turned over A bit better then started but ran really rough.

[tcdesignguy]

Look at the second paragraph of this write up for the 4.4l...

[bmwdirtracer]

ptarditi will be exceptionally familiar with your engine, and its oil-related failures. I've dealt with some big leaks on the engine, but nothing that let loose all the oil at once.

Have you conclusively found and corrected the leak?

[tcdesignguy]

Tonight I'm going to try and get the bottom of the motor all cleaned.. It was documented at the dealer that I had a ALT bracket leak, plus timing cover leak and was going to take care of all that this winter.

I just didn't want to put tons of hours in fixing alt bracket oring if I had broken rod, busted valves etc. Seems my motor is ok, just out of timing bank 2, so it's worth digging in further///

[328 Power 04]

Watching and learning intently here. This is one of the more unusual ones.
Like a rare illness, everyone wants to watch and learn from the case study.

[tcdesignguy]

Sorry busy with kids sports and work so I can’t touch until tomorrow. I’ll keep this thread going until a conclusion is reached and post all learnings for others.

[tcdesignguy]

Ok 8 cans of brake cleaner later entire bottom of engine/acc/etc is spotless.

tonight I plan on compression test, and inspect for new oil spots below.

happy car is from California and never seen winter - it looks new.

can I simply unplug fuel rail while doing compression test?

[bmwdirtracer]

Having looked at your wiring diagrams, the easiest way to shut off fuel is to unplug fuse number 30 (20 amps), under right side of dash.

Second choice: pull up on the rear seat bottom and remove. Unbolt the cover plate under the rubberized mat. Sorry, I forget which side on an E60 has the electric pump; (I think driver's side) make sure you unplug something with a white wire with blue stripe.

[tcdesignguy]

Unplugged Fuse 30 - Ran compression tests on Cyl 2, 5,6,7

Engine Cold / Bosch FIX 7828 Compression Tester New In Package
Cyl 2 - 188
Cyl 5 - 212
Cyl 6 - 211
Cyl 7 - 210

I just went over to check Cyl 3 Bank 1 and got 60.. wonder if I have cyl wash down as the motor turned over different. I still smelt gas during the compression tests although I do not hear fuel pump running... with fuse 30 unplugged. I am not having any issues with Bank 1.

When I pulled my brand new spark plugs and read them, all plugs from bank 2 were pristine white at the end, while all bank 1 plugs had evidence of firing , (black, brown marks on porcelain)

This is a brand new out of the package nice compression tester.. How in the world am I getting over 200 psi in each cyl? I expected ~160-180

Also - I checked under the car (since the floor and the underneath was cleaned thoroughly - after cranking during the compression tests I have ~10oz of oil on the floor basically under the car (close proximity to the alternator)

- - - Updated - - -

Also I am an idiot and forgot to open the throttle during any of the compression testing.

[tcdesignguy]

If I'm doing my math right 212psi/14.7 = 14.42:1 compression Bank 2 and 188/14.7=12.8:1 WHAT THE HECK - Spec says 10.5:1 my math must be off.

Good News is sure doesn't look like I bent a valve?>?

[bmwdirtracer]

Don't do math; it doesn't work for this. The important thing is the comparison.

Certainly, the 60 psi thing is very worrying. Squirt half a teaspoon of oil in that hole and try again.

The DME might not let you open the throttle anyway, don't worry about it. I'd test every cylinder though. And especially retest #3.

Where did the oil come from, exactly? That's crucial......

[tcdesignguy]

Ok, before heading to work I threw a little oil in Cyl 3 - 190psi - I had fuel wash due to residual pressure in system even with fuel pump unplugged.

you are correct bmwdirtracer - DME won’t allow throttle opening as far as I can tell.

I'll have to pull alternator to verify 100% but I cannot see the oil leak, I’m 99.9% sure it’s alt bracket- if I pull the alternator and have someone else crank the car I should be able to positively confirm leak location? Not other marks on the floor after sitting overnight.

[tcdesignguy]

Update:

1. ISTA Functioning
2. Alternator Out
3. Front power steering bolt / nut out
3a. Front wheel and most fender liner fasteners out, stopped because I don't think this will by me a lot of access.
4. Removed Motor Mount Nut - engine won't budge.
5. Found the 6mm Allan hidden behind PS Pump
6. Need to remove PS line in order to access hidden bolt - So that's next

[tcdesignguy]

Alternator Bracket / Bank 2 Misfire UPDATE - PROGRESS FINALLY

1. Got the Alternator Bracket out! - Not bad actually once I had time to get to it, PLUS the awesome tech write-ups.
2. I can confirm the oring in the alt bracket was split. (See pics)
3. This was the cause of the massive leak.
4. Before tearing down the bracket I started car and was getting bank 2 misires 5,6,7,8 -

Now that we know the cause of leak, and compression is 192 bank 1 & 212 Bank 2 does anyone think the misfire is either

a. air in vanos from oil starvation
b. broken tensioner
c. jumped tooth

Any input is helpful! My next step is the R&R the gasket and put the bottom end of motor back together....

[bmwdirtracer]

As ptarditi pointed out, in post 3, oil starvation can cause bunches of issues. Perhaps the vanos starved on bank 2. Or, maybe a tensioner broke, or maybe the ISM Module/relay for bank 2 failed (do the injectors of bank 2 have power on the red/blue wire with ignition on?)

Considering the amount of work and expenses of tearing open the front of the engine, looking for a broken part, I think that, personally, I'd fix the oil leak, and put it back together, clear the codes and adaptations, and go from there. Just my 2 cents.

[tcdesignguy]

Ok,

Seems like I'll just fix this leak and put it back together. I pulled the fuel pump fuse to run comp checks. Hoping that's enough to prime the oil system.

It should be mentioned again, when this failed i was 1/3-1/2 throttle accelerating and it made a loud noise and shut off. I had described it as it sounded like i momentarily had a leak in the exhaust manifold. Could the Valvetronic going into safe mode make this noise if it happened under load.

Want to note again that i installed new plugs prior to starting the car before taking alt bracket off

I test fired the car with 8qts fresh oil - Results from memory as follows

Attempt 1 car didn't start
Attempt 2 car started after several rotations ran rough shut off less than 10sec
Attempt 3 car started quicker and ran rough shut off less 10 sec
Noticed fresh oil puddle under car.

Bank 1 plugs already had brown marks from firing on the center porcelain.
Bank 2 plugs had NO marks from firing. Plugs looked perfectly clean like i never fired.

Also throughout this process I have never seen a low oil pressure light or code.
Would the DME not fire injectors if timing is off or Valvetronic went into safe mode?? I'll figure out how to check voltage that's a good idea too

Thanks!
Steve

[bmwdirtracer]

Hmmmm, thanks for the recap, I lose the details on these extended threads.

....Like the "loud noise and shut off".

That's certainly not good.....and I guess, in view of that, you should at least remove the valvecover on the driver's side, and see what you can see.

Unfortunately, the valvecover on this engine is quite a PITA to put back on: watch out for the little tabs at the bottom, which will fight you. Note bolt lengths.

[tcdesignguy]

UPDATE!!

Car is put back together completely.
Used ISTA to clear fault codes
Used ISTA to reset all engine adaptations

Car started ran really rough and died. Tried 4x same result

Misfire Bank 2 (5,6,7,8) but now getting both ignition coil AND combustion misfire codes. See attached

Uggh. - On a positive note engine is spotless, leak is fixed. even replaced alternator due to codes of over voltage spikes.

Im at a loss here - Any ideas???

[tcdesignguy]

Ignore the non-DME codes. Was refilling power steering fluid and it was a little low, plus still up on jack stands so adaptive steering freaks out.

[bmwdirtracer]

With ignition on, do you have power at the green wire at each coil on the driver's side bank? Do your injectors on that bank have power?

The screen shot you just posted shows as ISTA. Do you have an actual ISTA/D, which can follow though the test plan for these codes?

Please advise the year of the car; I'm trying to use a valid wiring diagram, but not sure I know the year.

Chris

[tcdesignguy]

dirtacer - my install of ISTA does have test plans etc.. when it sees combustion misfires it asked if I had ignition codes. I replied yes and went to the attached screen. I never had ignition misfires codes prior to clearing adaptations, just combustion misfires..

Car is 2008 550i Engine: N62B48

I am hoping my DME didn't go haywire. ISTA says DME is communicating properly - and all modules are green except LD (due to PDC sensors damaged when I got rear ended)

The DME cuts fuel to the cyl after detection of continuous misfires. I suppose its an attempt to save the CATs.

Confirmed - 12VDC to Green Wire on Coil Cyl 5 & 6 as a quick check
Leak Down test Cyl 5 as best as I can determine TDC (Engine Stone Cold) 50 PSI in ---> Holding 42 PSI Nothing out exhaust or Intake - Removed oil filler cap and can hear air there, but nowhere else
Cyl 5 is 210psi Compression - FYI
Leak Down Tester - MATCO CLT200

Seems the only thing left to do is take VC off and verify timing is off... Must have jumped a tooth

[bmwdirtracer]

Hmmm, you'll note that the test plan's wanting you to check electrical connections. Since we've just confirmed that the + is being delivered from the Integrated Supply module, the next thing to do would be to check the two grounds at that valvecover (64563 and 64564 if I'm reading that diagram correctly).

I don't see any reference to timing issues, cam/crank correlation, vanos, or valvetronic. Given the codes you're seeing, I think you've got ignition issues.