New fuel injectors needed Mustang, new Bosch or rebuilt

[86 shark]

I have had trouble with my 86 635 99,000 miles ,stock, NA model passing smog, have tried all the usual stuff, CTS, adjusting AFM, new O2 sensor,etc .Finally good mechanic put a borescope on it and discovered fuel injectors that are dripping even when car was off.I have done a fair amt of internet research on and off this board and actually haven't seen anything really recent on what to do.
Choices seem to be:
1.New Bosch injectors, way too pricey and I'm not sure if the technology is up to date.
2.Rebuilt injectors, several advertisers say they have rebuilt ones that they have tested and the price is 1/3 the price of new Bosch.
3.Mustang ( Ford ) injectors have been mentioned but I need a part number.

Has anybody changed theirs lately and what were the results.
Thanks,
Jim

[Dash01]

I put junkyard Mustang/Bosch injectors in both my Shark and my E34 535i, got about 10% better fuel economy, throttle response, and idle. Cleaned them first with the syringe/battery/spray carb cleaner trick per youtube. Total cost ~$5/injector.

Pretty much any Ford Crown Vic, Mustang, Lincoln, etc. has these aplenty at a junkyard near you.

[86 shark]

That I've heard but the time spent pulling and finding the injectors is a factor to me plus cleaning time plus chance of still failing smog.
If I had a year on the Mustang injectors to use I would probably buy new.

[Dschart]

I have been using these rebuilt 22 lb Bosch injectors in my 85 635csi with a M30 b35 since Jan 2016. They work great, better response and overall performance. I have a wide band o2 in the exhaust and the mixture is right on. It's a stock ECM and uses a stock o2 for mixture, but I do have a free flowing exhaust - Billy Boat, and no Cat.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/22LB-Bosch-Fu...404?nav=SEARCH

When I got them they were $65, now I see they are $75.

Can also use a Bosch 0-280-150-556 which is 20 lb, or a Bosch 0-280-150-944 which is stock flow of 18.25 lb @ 43.5 psi.

I think any of them will work for a stock application as the Bosch ECM is very good at controlling lambda.

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[Dschart]

Would like to add: definitely go with the 4 hole injectors. I've also bought rebuilt injectors from five-o-performance on Ebay, and have never had an issue.

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[86 shark]

Dschart, thanks for the info, this is a confusing business, I'm glad to see that these are 4 hole injectors.
Bosch rebuilt may be the way to go!

[FernandoBunster]

I just installed 4-hole Bosch Gen III injectors from five-o-performance. Work great and reasonably priced.

Refurbished injectors don't address possible problems with the injector coil.

BTW although the injectors came from five-o-performance, I purchased them through Amazon for additional savings.

[Dschart]

Here is a great link for fuel injector details: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm#BOSCH

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[bkats]

I have the Lucas injectors from five-o. They work without issue.

[86 shark]

Thanks guys, did order some 4 hole injectors

[86 shark]

Ouch, just found out that the injectors I ordered do not have the grooves in the top that secure it to the fuel rail.
Is this a deal breaker, will these still fit, can I cut a groove in them with a dremel tool?

[Sprocket]

It's a little late, but I sent my injectors from the E34 M5 off for refurb/cleaning to RC Fuel Injection

https://www.rceng.com/Fuel-Injector-Cleaning-P43C0.aspx and it was a good deal.

[Dschart]

Do not install injectors that do not have the grooves and can't use the factory clips. There is a chance fuel pressure will push the injector down, and will spray a hot engine with fuel.

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[Dschart]

The Bosch EV1's are 4 hole and also have the required grooves for the clips.

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[Dash01]

The Bosch EV1's are 4 hole and also have the required grooves for the clips.

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Note that still other injectors are available with 6 holes, presumably including some with the correct impedance, flow/pressure rating, and clip grooves, etc. With more holes, these may be somewhat better atomizing the fuel mixture. I hadn't known much about injectors(and still don't) but when researching replacements for my Porsche's ancient single pintle, low impedance injectors, found that Delphi made 6 hole units for GM which reportedly plug and play in the Porsche with similar impedance, flow, etc.

[ArtGriggs]

I have had trouble with my 86 635 99,000 miles ,stock, NA model passing smog, have tried all the usual stuff, CTS, adjusting AFM, new O2 sensor,etc .Finally good mechanic put a borescope on it and discovered fuel injectors that are dripping even when car was off.I have done a fair amt of internet research on and off this board and actually haven't seen anything really recent on what to do.
Choices seem to be:
1.New Bosch injectors, way too pricey and I'm not sure if the technology is up to date.
2.Rebuilt injectors, several advertisers say they have rebuilt ones that they have tested and the price is 1/3 the price of new Bosch.
3.Mustang ( Ford ) injectors have been mentioned but I need a part number.

Has anybody changed theirs lately and what were the results.Jim -

Thanks,
Jim

Jim -

Re: Your '86 635csi

How did your fuel injector quest turn out? I too have a 1986 635csi.

- Art

[86 shark]

Art
I did get some 4 hole ones, don't remember where.
They did not help my " running rich" problem so I'm still trying after a few mechanics to figure out what's wrong.
Do not have a part # for the Mustang ones that seem to be recommended.

[DesktopDave]

I'm pretty sure the Mustang injectors I used were PN 0-280-150-556. I've since upgraded them again to Volvo injectors, PN 0-280-155-746. I'll verify them & get some pics up later on.

If I had your problem I might be tempted by an adjustable FPR...

[86 shark]

Thanks for the input, what I'm thinking is that I have a system that is running open loop, that is .9 Lambda instead of .5 or so.
Also wondering if all this running rich has killed my Cat converter and all I have to do is replace it.

This is what I've done so far, car still fails smog by a factor of 10:

So far I have:
1.Replaced wires and distributor cap. Fine
2.Replaced coolant temp sensor, old one ohms out same as new one at different temps. Fine
3.Ohmed out cabin temp sensor.Fine
4.Lubed and checked idle control valve, vibrates at idle, opens and closes fine.
5.Plugged cold start sensor at fuel rail .
6.Have different AFM's, one I use as a base is out of friend's 86 635 ( never been opened ) his 635 runs fine.Have "mapped " one spare to correct voltages by adjusting potentiometer sweep arm to new carbon track and slightly adjusting sweep arm to read lower voltages.This has helped slightly.
7.Plugged in friend's ECU, no change.
8.Smoke test and seafoam treatment doesn't show any leaks.
9.Installed new correct sprk plugs, they go black and fluffy in minutes just like when I clean the old ones.
10.Installed new FPR, no change from old one.
11.Reference sensor and speed sensor ohm out correctly, if I switch them car doesn't start, so they seem to be working.
12.Have contact cleaned every connection found and have wire bushed all ground connections.

Introducing small air leak at manifold ( disco cabin temp sensor hose ) makes it idle higher 1100 and smoother.

TPS is a problem , linear voltage readings and ohm readings go in the wrong direction .My friends 635 is a manual and he lives 70 miles away.May have to trip up there.
Ohm test:
Idle ohms should be 2.0 actual is 4.2
Floored ohms should be 10 actual is .62

Voltage test
Idle volts should be .7 increasing to about 5.0 when floored.
Idle actual is 4.52 decreasing to .9 when floored.

Tests done on 2 different DMM's give same readings.

Really stuck on why I'm running rich.

[Dschart]

Just a thought, sorry if you are way past this, but have you checked the voltage output from the O2 sensor? I put an 2nd sensor on my 6er, actually a wideband, so I know exactly what the lambda is at all times. If the O2 starts to flake out, ECM will definitely be in open loop.

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[Dschart]

Pin 24 on the Motronic. 14.7 to 1 is Lambda of 1, and the O2 should generate 0.45 vdc between pin 24 and ground. Also, make sure the O2 heater wires are getting 12 vdc when the key is in start or run.

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[DesktopDave]

TPS is a problem , linear voltage readings and ohm readings go in the wrong direction .My friends 635 is a manual and he lives 70 miles away.May have to trip up there.
Ohm test:
Idle ohms should be 2.0 actual is 4.2
Floored ohms should be 10 actual is .62

Voltage test
Idle volts should be .7 increasing to about 5.0 when floored.
Idle actual is 4.52 decreasing to .9 when floored.

Tests done on 2 different DMM's give same readings.

Really stuck on why I'm running rich.

Wait, is this a manual or auto? If it's a manual, are you sure you have an M30 TPS? IIRC an M20 TPS version looks exactly the same but rotates in the opposite direction. I'm sure some mechanics and parts vendors don't know the difference... I have a spare TB that I could send if you needed something to test against.

l'll double-check my parts if you think I'm right. Looks like the M30 uses part# 13631273265 (M30 TB diagram here.)
M20 uses part# 13631710559 (TB diagram here).

[86 shark]

All,
Thanks for the input, it is a stock 635 NA auto.

Back in better weather I was able to read O2 sensor output and it was still high at .8 or so no matter what I did to adjust AFM.

Contacted Brucey on Big Coupe group and he said TPS just controls whether ICV is working but does not really have anything to do with engine management.

O2 sensor is fine, I've tried a couple, thanks to Dschart for pointing out that it is pin 24.I may need a nice day to measure voltage at O2 sensor then connect it and read voltage at ECM to see if ECM is getting the same.
Trying to eliminate whether I have a break in O2 sensor wiring that is causing rich ( open loop ) message going to ECM.

[Dschart]

Correction on my post above: The M30 injectors are high impedance (not low).

The M30B34 OEM is Bosch 280-150-203, and it flows 19.28 lbs/hr (202.6 cc) @ 3 bar.



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