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Thread: Mortal electrical issues. 1 year anniverisary. Anyone wish to take it on?

  1. #1
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    Mortal electrical issues. 1 year anniverisary. Anyone wish to take it on?

    I have been fighting with this since Nov 2016. Literally... no progress. I post in different ways to hopefully get new eyes and perhaps a different angle to the problem. I have done everything known to man. New IVM module, even replaced every pin on the IVM harness that looked anywhere close to not 100%. Had battery checked countless times. Recharged battery to full... even added a second battery just to be sure... To no avail.

    When I switch ignition to 2nd position... I hear clicks from the engine compartment. Its the intake butterfly. Two clicks a second. Dash lights are strange. Nav/idrive screen switches on/off. Power warnings everywhere. Trust me, its getting power. Even connected 2nd battery to the jump terminals, no difference. Starter "kicks" when engaged (sounds strong for a split second) but stops. Probably stopped by protection of some sort, or other non-communication. No IBS warnings, ever. Modules under spare tire are perfectly clean. No water infiltration anywhere. Switched 30G relay. About to do that again, just because its easy.

    The codes from ISTA change all the time. Always a laundry list of them. Some appear and reappear. THe module list sometimes appears somewhat complete other times maybe half of them don't respond and don't appear.

    This car used to be completely free of codes with exception to an occasional VVT (2A69) issue and it would go into limp mode. Troubleshooting that with a new IVM turned into this mess. Of course, I put in the old IVM, and problems remain. This is the new normal. Has been for a year now. Car hasn't moved since then.

    After all of this... I got nothin. Absolutely nothin.

    Int.lev.works: E060-05-03-520 Int.lev.(cur.): E060-12-11-500 Int.lev.(tar.): -
    Mileage: 141825 km
    Code Description Mileage Class
    S 0122 No communication possible with: Light module 141825
    S 0180 No communication possible with: Safety module/restraint system 141825
    S 0195 No communication possible with: Telephone control unit 141825
    S 0374 No communication possible with: Aerial tuner 141825
    002A69 DME: Valvetronic, actuator motor: power supply 141816
    002A6A DME: Valvetronic, actuator motor 2: power supply 141816
    002D00 DME: Throttle-valve actuator, spring test of closing spring 141816
    005140 No message, receiver EGS, transmitter DME-DDE 141816
    0051AD No message, receiver EGS, transmitter DSC 141816
    005D61 ARS: Voltage supply, control module, Dynamic Drive 141824
    009CBA Tiefentladungsschutz der Batterie: Abschaltung Standlicht -1
    009CC3 Batterie tiefentladen -1
    009E35 PDC: Wire, ultrasonic sensor, rear center left -1
    00A0B2 CAS: Supply, terminal 30E/30L 141824
    00A179 CCC-GW: Control-module fault or over-/undervoltage 141824
    00A3AD Message (engine data, 0x1D0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE 141824
    00A6A7 MPM: Control-module fault 141824
    00E107 INSTRUMENT CLUSTER: K-CAN communication fault 141824
    00E718 Message (engine heating current, 0x1B6) faulty, receiver IHKA, transmitter DMEDDE
    141824
    00FFF3 MOSTSYS: MOST system analysis: 1 fault found 141825


    I clear the codes, and these reappear:

    S 0122 No communication possible with: Light module 141825
    S 0180 No communication possible with: Safety module/restraint system 141825
    002A69 DME: Valvetronic, actuator motor: power supply 141816
    00A3AD Message (engine data, 0x1D0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE 141824
    00E107 INSTRUMENT CLUSTER: K-CAN communication fault 141824
    00E718 Message (engine heating current, 0x1B6) faulty, receiver IHKA, transmitter DMEDDE
    141824

  2. #2
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    pls provide model, year and history of vehicle you owned it since new or what?
    might help point you in a direction..
    ">'85 Mlite E30, '98 E36, 1998 528i, 5 spd manual, black on black, sold in 2012 and still going past 350Kkms, now MYSTIC Blue 2004 545i, 6 spd Steptr., Adaptive steering and Xenons, Anti dazzle mirrors. Aux+Belt-Chime+Dig speedo+iDrive discl. 2007 TCU+BT Coded+Sure BT Board

  3. #3
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    1) Use socket on center crankshaft pulley bolt to confirm engine turns over. Turn clockwise 2 complete revolutions looking towards rear of car.
    2) Short two large terminals on starter to confirm starter will crank engine.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmyachtie View Post
    pls provide model, year and history of vehicle you owned it since new or what?
    might help point you in a direction..
    2005 E60 545i. Purchased completely clean of codes with 65,000 miles. No signs of water damage in any way. Car was obviously garaged by first owner. Clear history.

  5. #5
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    Issues occur without an attempt to start. All of the clicking and craziness is happening at 2nd ignition position. This vehicle has a key. Its not a pushbutton. In S1 (accessory position) there is no clicking. It happens in S2 (Ignition on). I wont even try to start the car until I get the crazy stuff fixed. Not much point in it. I dont want to crank it either until I know that things are not all out of whack. I dont want the vvt to go full one way or another and cause some actual mechanical damage... or who knows... if that can even happen, i dont know.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinav View Post
    2005 E60 545i. Purchased completely clean of codes with 65,000 miles. No signs of water damage in any way. Car was obviously garaged by first owner. Clear history.
    How long did you drive it without this problem? Did you buy it a year ago?
    ">'85 Mlite E30, '98 E36, 1998 528i, 5 spd manual, black on black, sold in 2012 and still going past 350Kkms, now MYSTIC Blue 2004 545i, 6 spd Steptr., Adaptive steering and Xenons, Anti dazzle mirrors. Aux+Belt-Chime+Dig speedo+iDrive discl. 2007 TCU+BT Coded+Sure BT Board

  7. #7
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    You stated earlier:
    This car used to be completely free of codes with exception to an occasional VVT (2A69) issue and it would go into limp mode. Troubleshooting that with a new IVM turned into this mess. Of course, I put in the old IVM, and problems remain. This is the new normal. Has been for a year now. Car hasn't moved since then.

    plus you get VVT power faults now, suspect either your VVT is main culprit have you tried to start car with VVT connectors pulled? (Disconnected) If not suggest you do,that .
    ">'85 Mlite E30, '98 E36, 1998 528i, 5 spd manual, black on black, sold in 2012 and still going past 350Kkms, now MYSTIC Blue 2004 545i, 6 spd Steptr., Adaptive steering and Xenons, Anti dazzle mirrors. Aux+Belt-Chime+Dig speedo+iDrive discl. 2007 TCU+BT Coded+Sure BT Board

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmyachtie View Post
    You stated earlier:
    This car used to be completely free of codes with exception to an occasional VVT (2A69) issue and it would go into limp mode. Troubleshooting that with a new IVM turned into this mess. Of course, I put in the old IVM, and problems remain. This is the new normal. Has been for a year now. Car hasn't moved since then.

    plus you get VVT power faults now, suspect either your VVT is main culprit have you tried to start car with VVT connectors pulled? (Disconnected) If not suggest you do,that .
    I drove the car for about 8 months before any trouble appeared. The car had start issues. I got a used IVM off ebay, and replaced it. Cleared up the trouble with that. A few months later, I got the VVT problem. I got a NEW IVM from FCP, and things went haywire when I replaced it. But, the car set for several weeks. I don't know if something happened in that long sit time, or if something happened when I swapped the IVM again.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinav View Post
    ......... I dont want to crank it either until I know that things are not all out of whack. I dont want the vvt to go full one way or another and cause some actual mechanical damage... or who knows... if that can even happen, i dont know.
    Socket on crankshaft can't possible cause any more damage than has already occurred.
    VVT error can't cause mechanical damage and they won't prevent engine from cranking....may prevent starting but not cranking.
    Starter is trying to crank engine. You should check for a frozen engine, bad starter or high resistance connection in 12v supply or engine ground wire limiting current to starter and therefore no crank.
    The tests I suggested rule out frozen engine or bad starter.
    Last edited by pshovest; 11-10-2017 at 05:56 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
    Socket on crankshaft can't possible cause any more damage than has already occurred.
    VVT error can't cause mechanical damage and they won't prevent engine from cranking....may prevent starting but not cranking.
    Starter is trying to crank engine. You should check for a frozen engine, bad starter or high resistance connection in 12v supply or engine ground wire limiting current to starter and therefore no crank.
    The tests I suggested rule out frozen engine or bad starter.
    Clicks in video are occurring just with ignition switch on (Position S2). Nothing to do with cranking engine. I'm trouble shooting an electrical issue. I cant think about cranking the engine until all of the electronics come online. Over half the models dont even report in. I'll get to cranking later. I have to address the electronics first.

    Just to review ignition switch positions:

    S0=Ignition off
    S1=Accessory Mode
    S2=Ignition on
    S3=Engage Start

    Clicks occur in S2. Not in S1 and obviously not in S0.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by martinav; 11-10-2017 at 06:09 PM.

  11. #11
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    Low voltage explains most of the symptoms you report. All you have to do is sort out your power distribution problems.
    What is battery voltage with ignition off? ditto in S2?
    Suggest you start by checking voltages at modules that don't report or don't keep running. Use wiring diagrams to check voltages back to power source.
    Check for corrosion on battery terminals, starter connections and engine ground wire.
    http://www.bmw-planet.net/diagrams

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinav View Post
    .......... Nav/idrive screen switches on/off. Power warnings everywhere. Trust me, its getting power.............

    00A6A7 MPM: Control-module fault 141824..........................
    Power cycling CCC-MASK is a clue. CCC-MASK is fed from F34 via MPM. MPM will remove power from F34/35/36/38&40 to conserve battery power.

    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...adunit/tZ1vVIN
    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...module/iy5pvuE

    MPM might be defective or it may be sensing low voltage somewhere and unloading F34/35/36/38&40.

    Run the ISTA test plan for the 00A6A7 MPM code
    Last edited by pshovest; 11-10-2017 at 09:28 PM.

  13. #13
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    Is there any chance it's something really simple like the negative battery cable or was the IBS only on later cars? I think there was a recall.

    Sounds very frustrating. People are wary of old 545/550 but I thought it was more for engine issues than electrical. I am a big DIYer but after 8 months probably would have gotten professional help.

  14. #14
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    Unless you’re 100% sure it was not involved in a flood I would not rule that out and if so she maybe beyond rescue.
    ">'85 Mlite E30, '98 E36, 1998 528i, 5 spd manual, black on black, sold in 2012 and still going past 350Kkms, now MYSTIC Blue 2004 545i, 6 spd Steptr., Adaptive steering and Xenons, Anti dazzle mirrors. Aux+Belt-Chime+Dig speedo+iDrive discl. 2007 TCU+BT Coded+Sure BT Board

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmyachtie View Post
    Unless you’re 100% sure it was not involved in a flood I would not rule that out and if so she maybe beyond rescue.
    That was a concern. However, I see absolutely no other evidence of water damage. Electrical in the lower parts of the vehicle are completely clean. THe corrosion on the connectors on the IVM module were very localized. I really do not see how any of that would have been due to water damage. I would have expected a lot of other signs. Especially in the truck fuse block, and the modules under the spare tire. Those are very clean.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Is there any chance it's something really simple like the negative battery cable or was the IBS only on later cars? I think there was a recall.

    Sounds very frustrating. People are wary of old 545/550 but I thought it was more for engine issues than electrical. I am a big DIYer but after 8 months probably would have gotten professional help.
    Good thought. I have been through all of the easy things. IBS not-excluding. Its good.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinav View Post
    That was a concern. However, I see absolutely no other evidence of water damage. Electrical in the lower parts of the vehicle are completely clean. THe corrosion on the connectors on the IVM module were very localized. I really do not see how any of that would have been due to water damage. I would have expected a lot of other signs. Especially in the truck fuse block, and the modules under the spare tire. Those are very clean.
    Then I am back to my very first suggested solution assuming you haven’t addressed it and that is to get a cooperative dealer with a knowledgeable SW Tech to reload software ........
    ">'85 Mlite E30, '98 E36, 1998 528i, 5 spd manual, black on black, sold in 2012 and still going past 350Kkms, now MYSTIC Blue 2004 545i, 6 spd Steptr., Adaptive steering and Xenons, Anti dazzle mirrors. Aux+Belt-Chime+Dig speedo+iDrive discl. 2007 TCU+BT Coded+Sure BT Board

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmyachtie View Post
    Then I am back to my very first suggested solution assuming you haven’t addressed it and that is to get a cooperative dealer with a knowledgeable SW Tech to reload software ........
    Its a nice thought, but unlikely. I think Id rather sent it off somewhere to get it checked/flashed, outside the car. I assume thats all in the DME.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I took a video of what it was doing with ignition on. Please have a look.

    I still think there is someone out there who has seen this, and can identify.
    Last edited by martinav; 11-12-2017 at 12:05 PM.

  18. #18
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    Curious if this was ever resolved but I think I know what happened here. If engine is not froze I would run the ISTA starter test module. The starter relay wire on N62 can go bad and general corrosion on starter/battery terminals/wires compounds the problem into a no crank situation. I had to replace the relay wire on my 07 550i which fixed the no crank issue. Be cognisant of CAS/DME security key alignment which could get thrown off during troubleshooting the no crank and confuse things for you.

    On those other issues, I can see why many think its a flood issue but did you consider this.....Is it possible that some cleaner or liquid seeped into the DME and VVT module when you were cleaning corrosion from the connectors when trying to repair IVM/starter issue? The DME connectors/pins are not water proof so if you sprayed cleaner in them it will seep into the module. Or perhaps the ebox was left open when car was sitting up as you indicated and condensation or rain made its way in. Liquid ingress into DME connector will often smoke the unit but could impair the unit to cause extremely crazy and random issues you are experiencing...Same goes for VVT module. Im not sure why they insist on facing the connectors upward.

    Also consider water ingress into the ebox can occur via the ground cable at the front of the ebox on the e60 but since the issues started when the repair started its probably not the culprit. However, slow water ingress wont leave a visible trace as with a flooded car for example so detection is harder. The only way to identify is opening the module to see if corroded/wet. You can easily open the old IVM to see if that has heavy corrosion exist to give you some insight before breaking open your DME/VVT modules.

  19. #19
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    Then again...Many of the codes look power related and could simply be from allowing power to drop while troubleshooting. The crazy throutlebody clicking behavior I believe is also caused by low power. You need to be sure and keep power supply on while troubleshooting especially on the e60 or you will easily get mislead down an ever changing path. If power get below 11.7v or so the codes start flying.

    I would suggest to just focus on getting the starter to turn and start the engine and forget the rest. Getting to the starter is extremely hard on the e60 v8 so easy to get discouraged but this is number 1 on hit list.

    Something to consider, just because you tried 2 batteries does not eliminated low power as no crank culperated. I did the same test on mine to no avail. Also I dont think its a safety shut off you are experiencing when you try to start. The e60 has the most complex security mechanism BMW ever implemented which involves a message from CAS module being verified by DME, which then informs IVM module to send power to starter relay wire. Since your car is attempting to start that means this security process is in order and issue is simply a power issue or bad starter. The starter on N62 is not prone to failure which is why BMW will point you to the wiring issue as likely cause (after IVM of course). If the relay wire is the culprit you will need to run a new wire from IVM to starter as the solution. You need to thoroughly clean entire start supply line of all corrosion (including the jump start point plate) and treat with dielectric grease. Same goes for all grounds.

    It would be great to get a status update whatever that maybe. Best of luck!

  20. #20
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    I took this to Dallas Precision Imports in Plano, TX. They were amazing. This issue ended up being the DME. They procured a new (used) one, got it flashed, and brought this back to life! They were amazing, reasonable, and a dream to work with . I recommend them HIGHLY!

    http://dallasprecisionimports.com/

  21. #21
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    Congratulations and thanks for the followup.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
    Congratulations and thanks for the followup.
    +1!!!
    ">'85 Mlite E30, '98 E36, 1998 528i, 5 spd manual, black on black, sold in 2012 and still going past 350Kkms, now MYSTIC Blue 2004 545i, 6 spd Steptr., Adaptive steering and Xenons, Anti dazzle mirrors. Aux+Belt-Chime+Dig speedo+iDrive discl. 2007 TCU+BT Coded+Sure BT Board

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