2.8 Roadster possible intake leak, symptoms?

[LannVouivre]

Is ZA its own specific market *ONLY*, or part of the European region of BMW's market? Realoem doesn't let me view any engine parts if I enter the 2.8L for ZA with 9/98 production month, which is the closest I could get to a '99 year model Z3 Roady.

My dad's '09 Chevy Traverse has a stretched timing chain. Won't throw a DTC or MIL until you get it into just the right conditions (probably fully advanced or retarded timing with the VVT). I don't know about BMW, as my timing chain still isn't worn enough to get into abnormal readings and my cam sensor / circuit isn't damaged. BMW may have different parameters.

You should listen to Randy rf, he knows what he's talking about.

[JKuhn]

First post: That's why I asked initially. You're right, that's where I saw it. The printout said Delphi, if that helps.

Second post: To be honest, I don't know how the adapter plate will look. Mine appears to be like in this thread (I haven't checked now as it's already past 10 at night, but I've done enough in that area):

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-Help-With-Fix

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I didn't see the third post. Anyway, as far as I know it's at least very close to EU. And it is a 9/98 car, so you were actually spot-on.

And the car has 180k km on the clock (hopefully not far off, I don't trust those numbers anyway), so I doubt it will have a bad chain.

[raubritter]

My 2 cents, but that black box on the right side of the intake manifold looks like the DISA valve unit on the M54. Did M52TU have DISA?

Also, it's interesting how things are moved around from the driver-on-the-left-side setup of US cars. Brake reservoir switched sides to the enclosure for the DME (looks like perfect fit, but probably wouldn't want to spill brake fluid in there), washer fluid went from bottom left side of picture to the place where brakes are on US cars, and something (?) is where the washer fluid would be on US cars. Excuse my ignorance but what is that cylindrical thing in the front left of the picture (by strut tower)? Secondary air pump (which is in the DME enclosure on US cars)? Anyway interesting.

[JKuhn]

My 2 cents, but that black box on the right side of the intake manifold looks like the DISA valve unit on the M54. Did M52TU have DISA?

Also, it's interesting how things are moved around from the driver-on-the-left-side setup of US cars. Brake reservoir switched sides to the enclosure for the DME (looks like perfect fit, but probably wouldn't want to spill brake fluid in there), washer fluid went from bottom left side of picture to the place where brakes are on US cars, and something (?) is where the washer fluid would be on US cars. Excuse my ignorance but what is that cylindrical thing in the front left of the picture (by strut tower)? Secondary air pump (which is in the DME enclosure on US cars)? Anyway interesting.

Yep, the TU did get DISA. EDIT: If I'm not mistaken the M52TU had single DISA, and then double on the M54.

So that box is the DME? I started wondering a couple days ago, but I wasn't sure.

I don't know what that thing is either. It is on my list of things to find out, but not urgent.

[rf900rkw]

The physical mounting is not the problem. The MS43 knows nothing about driving a 52TU MDK throttle unit, just as a MS42 knows nothing about driving the M54 EDK. The combination as described will not function at all. There is something really wrong here, and it isn't the scanner's report of the ID.



Yes, both motors have a single disa valve. They appear the same from the outside, though they have different sized flappers.

[JKuhn]

Could you elaborate then? I don't really get what exactly you mean by "will not function at all". What will the implications be, if it is indeed a MS43 with a M52TU throttle body? Keep in mind the car normally has a perfect idle (lately not always though), and while the bottom-end is almost always a problem (along with an overall "lazy" response meaning noticeable lag, rev hang, slow rev), the top-end is almost always great.

I'll also ask the mechanic to check for any intake leaks, since I only replaced those two rubber pipes and more might be problematic.

EDIT: Should I open the DME box tomorrow, and see what's in there?

[rf900rkw]

The two throttle system are electrically incompatible. The MDK is PWM magnetic induction controlled, the EDK is a true stepper motor system. Wiring one to the wrong DME will at a minimum set a bunch of codes and result in no throttle actuation, with a maximum of letting the magic smoke out.

There is a label on the DME that will include programming info, engine. And VIN. It would be worth taking a look at it.

[LannVouivre]

You can plug the last 7 of your VIN number into realoem.com and get your info off there, or plug it into one of the VIN decoders. I'm fairly sure that you at least have dual VANOS, so it can't be a ZA-specific market 2.8 if it is a 2.8.

To look for a throttle cable without removing any components, I think you can look under your steering wheel at the top of the accelerator pedal. Assuming all M52tu vehicles still have a throttle cable as well as a form of drive by wire (the technical info Randy gave me suggests BMW didn't fully trust it, as it says the throttle cable is a backup for if the MDK failsafe mode). At the top of the accelerator pedal, my '00 2.8L (tu) has a sort of Z- or C-shaped ferrule at the end of the cable that hooks it into the accelerator pedal assembly. The M54 will have no cable there at all, just electrical connections and a spring.

[JKuhn]

I had a look, but it seems I'll have to disconnect the DME before I can pull it out and check it. What's the correct procedure for this, considering that this is a sensitive computer, and how critical it is for the car to run?

I did have to break the screws loose, which is odd. Unless the printout was for some reason wrong?


And I checked at the pedal as well, it is indeed an old cable system.

[JKuhn]

Oh, and I forgot to add this, but I did a VIN checkup before I bought the car.

Manufacturer:	BMW Germany
Brand:	BMW
Model:	Z3 E36 Z3 2.8
Engine:	M52
Region/Plant:	ECE
Year:	1998

Maker	BMW
Name	Z3 2.8
Body color	ATLANTABLAU METALLIC (306)
Market	E
Production Date	28.09.1998
Body Style	родстер
Steering	Right
Description	Z3 E36
Doors	2
Transmission	Manual
Series code	Z3
Engine	M52 (2800CC / 142kW)
Vehicle ID	(removed)
Type	CH32
Drive	RWD
Interior color	LEDER OREGON/SCHWARZ (Q2SW)

[deni2s]

European market car.

[deni2s]

Excuse my ignorance but what is that cylindrical thing in the front left of the picture (by strut tower)? Secondary air pump (which is in the DME enclosure on US cars)? Anyway interesting.

Secondary air pump.

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The physical mounting is not the problem. The MS43 knows nothing about driving a 52TU MDK throttle unit, just as a MS42 knows nothing about driving the M54 EDK. The combination as described will not function at all. There is something really wrong here, and it isn't the scanner's report of the ID.

For e46 it's a common practice to swap wire throttle to cable throttle...

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I had a look, but it seems I'll have to disconnect the DME before I can pull it out and check it. What's the correct procedure for this, considering that this is a sensitive computer, and how critical it is for the car to run?

Turn off the ignition, and good to go. Disconnection is straightforward - you have to pull some lever on connector to disconnect. Car will not run without ECU, so quite critical

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Second post: To be honest, I don't know how the adapter plate will look.

Additional probably non-oem looking metal plate between throttle body and intake manifold around 10-20mm thin. It's adaptor for different bolt holes patterns on throttle body and intake manifold. You can see shiny aluminium adapter plate here: https://a.d-cd.net/e1e1872s-960.jpg

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Unless the printout was for some reason wrong?

I tend to think so and that you have m52tu.

[JKuhn]

So no need to disconnect the battery, and no need to pull a specific plug first?

EDIT: I can't get the plugs out, and I don't want to mess with the wires too much (in case they decide to break off). I'll just leave it for now, and find out when the car goes in. It shouldn't cost much to just check the sticker on the DME...

[deni2s]

So no need to disconnect the battery, and no need to pull a specific plug first?

EDIT: I can't get the plugs out, and I don't want to mess with the wires too much (in case they decide to break off). I'll just leave it for now, and find out when the car goes in. It shouldn't cost much to just check the sticker on the DME...

For disconnecting ECU - no. You can disconnect the battery if you want for peace of mind.

[328 Power 04]

For e46 it's a common practice to swap wire throttle to cable throttle...

Ya, but to a purely mechanical throttle, not the m52tu dbw throttle. (It is very much a dbw in m52tu). And then you'd still have a ton of errors in the dme sending a lot of the routines in limp mode.


BTW Not sure if there are any more benefits to changing from dbw throttle to mechanical throttle... For normal cars you lose cruise control and dsc, and gain limp mode unless very well tuned.

[rf900rkw]

Five connectors have to be unplugged. Do them in the order the harnesses lay out. Three have push tabs and pull out. Two have levers locked closed by a push tab. You can disconnect the battery if it will make you feel better, I never bother.

[JKuhn]

UPDATE: I got the car back. There was a loose vacuum pipe, and the VANOS is now also done. It still doesn't run right, but the VANOS was on my list (now I know it's right), and the vacuum leak had to be done either way. So I guess the next step is to check the base (feel free to tell me if there's a better way to put it) cam timing.

I also found out that the car does have the correct MS42, so that's the end of that mystery.

[JKuhn]

I hoped this matter wouldn't go on this long, but it seems it did. Anyway, I'll create a troubleshooting thread for this matter, and link back here for reference. That way the thred title can be more appropriate, and I'll also sum it all up in the OP.