Try and ID that cylinder, or you can do a cold compression test to find it. I am thinking that you have a cylinder that the rings are sticking, and they can be freed up by dropping in some upper cylinder cleaner.
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
It's cylinder 2 I believe. When I was cranking the engine by hand after timing it with the valve cover off. I could hear a gurgling sound from the crank case on cylinder 2s compression stroke. There's quite a bit of carbon on the piston head in all 6 I think is a byproduct of the engine running with the timing off. Could be carbon in the ringland... it's going away slowly as the engine racks up hours. I start it every morning and get it up to temp and every day it gets more and more smooth. It probably just needs to be driven and get the cobwebs out of it. I got my tags today so the driving test will be tomorrow I'm driving it to work.
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You can give it the old Italian tune-up too, that should help it to clear out the carbon. Also you can do a water vapor cleaning, just need to get the motor hot and a spray bottle with some water in it. Of course you have to be careful as water doesn't like being compressed, so it doesn't take a lot of spraying to get it clean either.
Well have fun driving the piss out of it, for that is always enjoyable too!
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
I've done the water vapor method on a Chevy SB it works well but like you said I've seen some motors get destroyed that way. I'll just get it some high rpm for a little bit on my way to work tonight and maybe put some seafoam in the gas. I am a true believer in seafom, I usually use it in the crank case bout 1/2 pint to a whole oil fill about 500 miles before an oil change. It'll polish up everything inside that engine. This is my engine at 206k miles I used seafoam on it a year ago. The golden brown layer of varnish was stripped from even the vanos housing.
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Yeah, seafoam does work quite nice, but I like to use ATF. Cheap, easy and you can use it anytime. I have always puts some in the motor before an oil change and it does wonders at keeping my motors clean. This is my wagon at 110k miles:
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
I've also heard that in emergencies the military used diesel fuel in the oil to clean the engine out too. It actually evaporates out of the oil leaving you with a clogged ass filter. What do you think of pulling all the plugs and putting some ATF in the cylinders overnight?
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Today I finally got to put her on the road and my Lord it takes off so much easier than before. It doesn't buck or anything. But I still felt a slight hiccup at 5500 rpm once I got on the highway. And I feel like it could still make some more power but then again I may just be expecting more than what I'll get out of a 2.5. Also once I got to work about 22 miles I noticed the idle still drops low coming out of gear then goes up to about 1000 then to idle not really a problem but I know it shouldn't do that. The engine bogs slightly under electrical load too. But I can't find any electrical problems. It's got a brand new IACV and I know that works right. I think I'll smoke it for vac leaks since I just took it apart.
Update: after driving home from work I feel like my cams are still a bit advanced. The boost of power I used to get at 4k is now 3.5k and it still struggles in the vanos range but now it only struggles at 75% or more throttle. Is it possible the mark on my balancer vs the mark on my front cover are not 100% accurate. Can I set it just to the right of the mark on the cover and square up the cams again? Or am I gonna be playing a brutal game here. Is there any way I can accurately degree the crank?
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Last edited by snow663; 11-19-2017 at 03:50 AM.
I don't think ATF in the cylinder would work very well, like adding it to the oil. Diesel fuel I have not heard of, but kerosene yes. It would be very similar to Diesel, as it would be between Gasoline and Diesel.
As for the timing, you did lock the crankshaft? That should be the only timing mark you would need on the crank IMO.
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
This time I did not lock the crank. Only the cams. Since the vanos was off it was easy to see the timing mark lined up perfectly. Then I verified it with a borescope. I have a motor swapped 318i. Unless the intake is off it's nearly impossible to put the flywheel pin in. Maybe if I put it up in the air and tried from underneath I could get it. I'll put the pin in tomorrow and see where it puts the mark.
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Um, yes, you absolutely put the pin in from underneath. If you don't lock both cranks and cam, you have not set the timing. BMW gave you holes and tools you can lock, instead of marks, and you need to use them. That's the only way that you can rule out the timing being wrong, and proceed to other diagnostic paths.
I'm not saying your timing is wrong, I'm just saying that we need any potential error here ruled out. Then the smoke test, to try to find the idle issue.
It seems that you have "issues" at idle, then issues "in the vanos range", and then issues at ~5500 rpm. That won't be an intake leak, but certainly you need to rule things out, as possible.
Um, the electrical load thing: is the DME properly grounded? Is the engine properly grounded?
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
Okay so the cold start misfire I believe is a leaky injector, my oil is getting dark already and smells like paint thinner (my nose is not very good so i would guess this is actually fuel I'm smelling). It's probably washing the cylinder wall causing the miss I get on cold starts. As for the cam timing, I'm gonna wait a couple weeks, save up some tip money, and buy the more expensive BMW tools, I'm tired of fiddling with it and I'm ruling it out for good. I sat down and wrote down a list of everything and then I went back and pulled up all the info I've gathered working on this thing and the only thing left that I have yet to get real data on is fuel volume, the CKP sensor, and I cant truly rule out mechanical timing. Everything else is ruled out...
Last edited by snow663; 11-22-2017 at 09:45 PM.
If you have the time, it takes about a week for your injectors to get cleaned and returned. I have used these guys in the past for my M-42/44 injectors, and they really did help me find a running issue: https://www.rceng.com/
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
I have a set of injectors I can swap out just need to find out which one it is, it's such a slow leak not even 8 hrs at work is long enough to cause a miss on the next start it cranks right up. It's gotta sit for like 16 hrs before it misses. Is there really any scientific method of checking which ones are leaking at such a slow rate, would I be able to see it by looking into the cylinders with a boroscope?
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Well a leaky injector will tend to have a cleaner intake path, so you can look for that.
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
It was a sticky injector. It slowly got worse over the last few days then last night it dropped a cylinder. I got home pulled the codes, no codes were stored, so I pulled the plugs and Cyl 2 was soaked with fuel. Put it back together and started it. The miss was still there so I pulled the coils one at a time and I got a nice strong pop from each one including Cyl 2, Next I stethed out the injectors. Sure enough no2 wasn't clicking. When I pulled the fuel rail fuel was still dripping from the injector, I swapped it with one from my backup set and it seems my cold start issues have diminished. The engine is now smoothly idling and no longer surges when pulling out of gear.
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Last edited by snow663; 12-03-2017 at 04:42 PM.
I'd have to recommend sending 6 injectors off to RC Engineering for blueprinting; $25 per injector....best bargain in the automotive world !
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
No lights or codes. I have a thread on this issue I just made today: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...r-acceleration
Wow, I've just got to say that you got some really damned stupid answers at that other forum. Some dip$#!+ declaring, outright, that you have a bad flywheel ???? Another stating your "traction control solenoid" is bad? Do yourself a favor, and ignore that BS. You need more information, not idiots.
Do you have access to a scan tool which can watch live data from all the computers? Personally, I'd start with looking at wheel speeds, just to rule out the ABS....I do not think this is your issue though.
As Abel (328Power) indicates, a fuel/air mixture issue is likely to be the cause. A smoke test of the intake system would be a good first step (using a professional smoke machine). If you have access to a good BMW specific scan tool, you might also want to try disconnecting the MAF, then starting and driving the car, to see if the issue changes dramatically. (This will set a code, which you'll need a scan tool to clear.)
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
I had a feeling people didn't thoroughly read the description the first time and jumped to conclusions... to put it nicely. :P
Currently I have only a standalone OBDII code tool and I ordered a Galletto 1260 off eBay to see what I can do with it as far as live data / tuning. This is all learning experience for me, but I can grab and set up whatever tools and software I need to get this figured out. I already downloaded INPA and I'm getting it set up on my spare laptop that has a real serial port.
I'll see where I can get the smoke test done. FWIW I did clean the MAF with actual MAF cleaner I had left over and there was no change.
I just did a compression test on my M52 and I also noticed carbon buildup on my piston heads. I also have noticed what you mentioned a few posts back about intermittent misfiring at startup and then it runs smooth. In my case cylinder 5 came back as low compression but I re-tested it several times and the compression kept increasing... I'm wondering if it's really dirty valves. (232,000 miles should be a clue). There's also a really strong burning oil smell.
I've answered your PM, Aeko.
In fairness to the OP, Snow663, I have to suggest that you start your own thread at this particular forum. You can copy and paste the relevant posts from the other thread, and also my PM, if you like. There are a lot of damned good people at this forum, and you'll get the best responses from them, using your own thread.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
My issue was solved by simply replacing a worn out plastic splicer in the hose that runs from the radiator side tank to the back of the cylinder head and heater core. It was old and had a hairline crack that caused air to enter the cooling system, interestingly enough it wasn't leaking coolant externally until it finally popped, replaced it with a metal one and all my issues went away. Apparently it was causing a fuelling issue and that fuelling issue was causing my startup issue.
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