New starter spins but won't engage the flywheel

[HighandFast]

Just installed a brand new Valeo starter in my '04 e46 M3 and all it does is spin. I didn't bench test it or try pulling the gears to see if they extend before I installed it. Could it be something else?

Wow, I do not want to have to f**k with those starter bolts ever again, but, unless I learn of some trick or something, it looks like I'll have to.

(Chris, if you're out there, long time no see. Maybe next year.)

Thanks.

[bmwdirtracer]

Hi my friend!
Yeah, I missed the last event; couldn't afford the tires, brakes, lodging, fuel, missing a day off work, etc., etc. I'll be there in spring!

You need to crawl under the car with a good flashlight, and see whether the starter is flush with the bellhousing; likely the dowel has cocked the starter sideways.

On the other hand, I really don't recall seeing a Valeo starter before; thought they were all Bosch? (That's what realoem shows, too....and ECS, and FCP. I can't think how a starter would bolt up, but not work, but....where did you buy that thing?

[HighandFast]

Hi my friend!
....where did you buy that thing?

I think RM, but could have been AutohausAZ. I could see it from the top when I installed it and it was flush. I'm going to remove the intake manifold again and remove it to bench test it. God! What a pain.

I'll post a picture. Valeo makes most of the newly man'd starters and alternators. Remember, I said this was for my e46, not the yellow track car.

[bmwdirtracer]

Oops, sorry, yes, I looked up the E36, sorry. I see both Valeo and Bosch for the E46 M3.

Before you go to all the work of removing the starter, try turning the engine a little with a wrench on the crank pulley.

If the starter spins, but does not engage the flywheel, and the flywheel teeth are okay, and the starter is flush with the bellhousing, then, yeah, the starter is bad. But it's so much damned work, and the exchange such a problem, that, well, everything should be triplechecked. Hell, maybe even whack that starter just once when it's spinning, just in case.....

[HighandFast]

Too funny. I just got in. While I was out I thought to myself, "Hey, give the thing a whack and see what happens." LOL.

Oh, and, I got it from RM. They didn't even offer a choice...it was Valeo or nothin'.

Also, when I searched the forum before posting, I saw the post where the guy's starter was not flush. I have a hard time imagining how you could not notice that. Also, I think his didn't even turn right. It was sluggish or something.

[bmwdirtracer]

When you do the starter from below, and tighten the bolts with a 3 foot extension, it's quite possible to not notice when one side goes flush and the other side doesn't. In fact, I've seen a starter broken this way. Nonetheless, I do my starters from below, because it saves removing the manifold, and so turns a 3 hour job into a one hour job. I cannot swear this is possible on an S54 though.

[HighandFast]

Thanks, Chris. I did it from above and have an excellent view of three corners of the starter (the two bolts and dowel). My problem now is finding the time to check it. Pretty soon though, not having a car is going to push everything else to the side and you can bet...I will have the time!! Haha.

[bmwdirtracer]

Even brand new parts are bad, on occasion. When it's such a difficult item to reach, that's really terrible.

Just to try one other possibility, either check the main engine ground, or hook a battery jumper cable from frame ground to motor. There's a remote possibility that a poor ground is causing the starter bendix to fail to fully extend. Again, this is very remote, I'm not even sure it's possible....but the starter is a long way away - might as well check....

You have my phone numbers and email, in case you need a quick answer to something?

[HighandFast]

So, a follow up on the starter issue. Bench testing it, actually, just researching how to bench test it, revealed my problem...and it was me. I had the wiring wrong. It was that simple.

A side note: Those two bolts holding the starter in place are such a pain in the ass that I am considering replacing the starter on my e36 when I do the transmission swap. I'm pretty close to considering the cost of a new starter a reasonable price for the insurance it provides. It's around $150 when all is said and done.

[shadowpuck]

was yours the threaded or nut/bolt type?

[bmwdirtracer]

Can't wait to see you in the spring, my friend ! (By the way, shadowpuck instructs, too!)

If you've got a threaded starter, leave it alone, unless it misbehaves.
The nut bolt type really sucks., especially if it's got the forward mounting.

[HighandFast]

Cripes, I'm getting no notifications of pm's and posts to threads I'm subscribed to.

Anyway, thanks for the input. It's the threaded type. But the car is 20 years old with 170,000 mi. It was a one-owner car when I got it and it came with some prodigious repair records (and a couple with diagnoses that were clearly purposely left out...grrr), that if I could only find them I might see that it was replaced during it's first 136,000 miles. I'll keep digging. But the replacement transmission is going in when it gets warm enough, so I need to make my mind up. I'm inclined to take your recommendation, and I will never let you forget it if then the starter goes bad. :-)

LOL. I was just going to hit 'post reply' when I thought to myself, wtf does 'shadowpuck' mean. Then saw the previous post. I needed a good laugh. Now I can hit 'post.'

[HighandFast]

was yours the threaded or nut/bolt type?

Did they make anything other than the threaded type for the e46? God that sucked. It actually would not be nearly as bad with the e36 since I've torn out all the sound and heat material when I did the clutch that it's a clear shot to the bolts from the underside. When I did the clutch, I had to remove the intake manifold to pry loose the starter to get the transmission off. I filed the dowel pin pretty well before reinstallation, so at least I know it'll come off easily once the bolts are out.

[bmwdirtracer]

Cripes, I'm getting no notifications of pm's and posts to threads I'm subscribed to.

Anyway, thanks for the input. It's the threaded type. But the car is 20 years old with 170,000 mi. It was a one-owner car when I got it and it came with some prodigious repair records (and a couple with diagnoses that were clearly purposely left out...grrr), that if I could only find them I might see that it was replaced during it's first 136,000 miles. I'll keep digging. But the replacement transmission is going in when it gets warm enough, so I need to make my mind up. I'm inclined to take your recommendation, and I will never let you forget it if then the starter goes bad. :-)

LOL. I was just going to hit 'post reply' when I thought to myself, wtf does 'shadowpuck' mean. Then saw the previous post. I needed a good laugh. Now I can hit 'post.'

Oh, hell no you don't ! NOW you need a new starter!

[shadowpuck]

Oh, hell no you don't ! NOW you need a new starter!

lol!! i now totally agree with chris - it's a new starter or the earth will spin backwards!

i debated the same thing a while back when I did my transmission conversion on my now track car. i decided not to replace it at that time - but, that decision was mostly budget based. it's a tough call, a new part can fail too, as we all know.

on e46 - i think all of them used bolts. i had to replace the starter on my 03 330 and it wasn't too bad once i had the right combination of extensions, etc....