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Thread: 2017 US GP @ Circuit of the Americas

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldUlysses View Post
    It's entirely possible to agree with the fact that Max exceeded track limits and that the penalty was justified AND to be supremely disappointed that he couldn't make the pass stick.

    Sympathy for the RBR driver after an absolutely brilliant drive =/= justification of his maneuver on Kimi.
    I agree.

    Verstappen had a great GP otherwise but then made a mistake, pure and simple. He might've been able to pass Kimi without going over track limits. Hopefully another lesson learned and he'll use skill next time, he seems to have a lot of that.
    Last edited by MagneZium; 10-23-2017 at 02:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagneZium View Post
    I agree.

    Verstappen had a great GP otherwise but then made a mistake, pure and simple. He might've been able to pass Kimi without going over track limits. Hopefully another lesson learned and he'll use skill next time, he seems to have a lot of that.
    Kimi’s tires were going off so badly that if there was another lap or two, Max certainly would’ve passed him anyway. It’s a shame he exceeded track limits on his pass, but that’s racing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan M3 View Post
    Crime is crime. So what if I have a badge, gun, taser, pepper spray, and a propensity for violating individual's rights?
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    Hartley to return for Mexico, taking Kyvat's seat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burninator View Post
    Hartley to return for Mexico, taking Kyvat's seat.
    Nice!

    Seems most of the teams got tire wear calculations wrong for US GP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RidgeBack View Post
    Nice!

    Seems most of the teams got tire wear calculations wrong for US GP.
    SF included

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    Quote Originally Posted by RidgeBack View Post
    If the race was longer Max would have been told to give the position back because of illegal overtake. They couldn't do that hence the 5 seconds.

    I was an illegal overtake - 4 wheels off the inside of a corner = cutting corner (ignoring track limits) to gain an advantage. He went 4 wheels off track and he gained an advantage.

    I don't see the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by burninator View Post
    Watching so called F1 "fans" bellyaching all over social media about Max being rightfully served a penalty for a very obvious rule violation is pretty hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine 318is View Post
    I think the big thing in the wording of the rule is “exceeding track limits to gain an advantage”. If Ocon in his lonely mid drive pulls all 4 wheels off and does nothing, well then who cares. Verstappen cutting the corner to take a podium 3 corners from the finish line well that’s something totally different
    Agreed with all of the above. I don't see how this could be any clearer. He went 4 wheels off to make the pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by badmonkey View Post
    Track limits were not enforced all weekend, until the last pass for podium on the last corner? The penalty is a bit disingenuous, and contrary to the preseason edict.

    Lauda agrees...

    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...t-ever-seen-f1
    Does anyone actually listen to him? Once in a while he'll make a good point I suppose, but most of the time it's just nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by burninator View Post
    Hartley to return for Mexico, taking Kyvat's seat.
    Saw that. Kind of surprising since Kvyat did so well in Austin, aside from his last lap slide-off which happened right in front of where I was sitting. Doesn't really seem justified to me but I guess that's just the way F1 can be.


    Last edited by roarf; 10-24-2017 at 10:15 AM.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrkoupe View Post
    Ricciardo just has so much fun in the car. He’s great to watch and easy to root for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan M3 View Post
    Crime is crime. So what if I have a badge, gun, taser, pepper spray, and a propensity for violating individual's rights?
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    As someone said above I think its a good point that there shouldn't be enough tarmac on the inside of a corner that you can place a car totally outside the track limits and not be hitting grass or something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m3fuz View Post
    Bernie isn't going anywhere any time soon. Until he's dead, anyway.
    so very true

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    No one was maintaining track limits. Robbed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxxxxxx View Post
    No one was maintaining track limits. Robbed.
    No one made a pass with 4 wheels off track except Max. Fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roarf View Post
    No one made a pass with 4 wheels off track except Max. Fact.
    Don't want drivers pushing the track limits, then correct it immediately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxxxxxx View Post
    Don't want drivers pushing the track limits, then correct it immediately.
    Reading comprehension: you need to work on it.

    Why the hell do you and so many want racing to become some kind of popularity contest instead of a competition of skill...on a racetrack? Seriously, why the hell do so many people want to let a guy drive off the track and CUT A CORNER to pass for the podium? Doesn't racing mean ANYTHING to anyone?

    It's clear that the hordes are fixated on 'liking' Max more because of his image or whatever makes Kardashians, Bieber and other douches celebrities, and then all racing and truth are flushed down the toilet just because they have to satisfy their fantasy infatuation BS.

    Media after media keep writing articles siding with Max just because they're playing the numbers, it's the side that'll get more income for them. Noting that Kimi drove an awesome race and would've come in second place without giving the spot voluntarily to Vettel is something to enjoy too, not everything (including the very fundaments of racing: sticking to the track and not cutting corners!) has to be sacrificed for your hormonal cravings or fantasies to be fulfilled. I used to hear 'may the best man win', now it's just 'I want XXXX to win'...
    Last edited by MagneZium; 10-25-2017 at 03:40 PM.
    BMWs are fun in the snow too...


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    Quote Originally Posted by MagneZium View Post
    Media after media keep writing articles siding with Max just because they're playing the numbers, it's the side that'll get more income for them.
    Uhm, all the media outlets I've seen agree 100% with the stewards' decision and the penalty---while expressing admiration for Max's drive from P16 to P4.

    Where are the pundits saying he shouldn't have been penalized?
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldUlysses View Post
    Uhm, all the media outlets I've seen agree 100% with the stewards' decision and the penalty---while expressing admiration for Max's drive from P16 to P4.

    Where are the pundits saying he shouldn't have been penalized?
    On the same media outlets.

    What’s the difference between a following driver running wide to carry more speed, higher exit speed and ultimately a higher top speed at the end of the next straight to make a pass vs what Verstappen did? Both leave the track to gain an advantage. Same could be said in qualifying, running wide might be the difference between making Q2. Again, driver gains an advantage by driving outside the track boundaries. If running wide wasn’t an advantage, it wouldn’t be done. Having spent more than my fair share of time on race tracks, keeping all four wheels on the track surface proper is slower than exploiting the fringes.

    No question Verstappen jumped the inside curb with all four wheels. The issue for me is the inconsistency, singling out one off course excursion vs dozens if not hundreds of others.


    Watched this in person, if you got the balls to take it there, you win the place...

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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagneZium View Post
    Reading comprehension: you need to work on it.

    Why the hell do you and so many want racing to become some kind of popularity contest instead of a competition of skill...on a racetrack? Seriously, why the hell do so many people want to let a guy drive off the track and CUT A CORNER to pass for the podium? Doesn't racing mean ANYTHING to anyone?

    It's clear that the hordes are fixated on 'liking' Max more because of his image or whatever makes Kardashians, Bieber and other douches celebrities, and then all racing and truth are flushed down the toilet just because they have to satisfy their fantasy infatuation BS.

    Media after media keep writing articles siding with Max just because they're playing the numbers, it's the side that'll get more income for them. Noting that Kimi drove an awesome race and would've come in second place without giving the spot voluntarily to Vettel is something to enjoy too, not everything (including the very fundaments of racing: sticking to the track and not cutting corners!) has to be sacrificed for your hormonal cravings or fantasies to be fulfilled. I used to hear 'may the best man win', now it's just 'I want XXXX to win'...
    TL;DR

    lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by badmonkey View Post
    No question Verstappen jumped the inside curb with all four wheels. The issue for me is the inconsistency, singling out one off course excursion vs dozens if not hundreds of others.
    .

  19. #69
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    There has been no inconsistency at all. As has been written here as well, FIA has been very clear from the start as to why they allowed going over track limits on the certain corner exits that were regularly crossed during the weekend. Not the inside lines on any corner, let alone the one Max cut. Also the subject was lap times, not passing people.

    Anyone with any kind of IQ should be able to understand that the two issues are completely separate, and that Verstappen (and his team and some others) is just dishonestly doing what he can to maximise his own advantage. There's no question about it: the issue of going over the line on several certain corner exits was raised, investigated, and the decision was made to allow it DUE TO EVIDENCE that it gave no advantage. Everyone knows that issue was about certain few corner exits and no other place, and despite the transparent lies just because they feel they have to try to defend theirselves, that was a question which was clarified. There was no inconsistency.
    BMWs are fun in the snow too...


  20. #70
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    Track limits has been a peeve of mine for many years. I also thought (and still do but I'll go into that after this) that the rules/limits were inconsistent.

    But.... I've learned that in the drivers' briefings they discuss track limits quite heavily. They get the input from all the drivers and they then... redefine... track limits. Yep, for every GP they redefine the track limits. non-existent example: everyone agrees that the curbs at turn 11 are not gaining an advantage. Therefore the stewards and Charlie and the drivers agree that it's okay to put 4 wheels off the track at turn 11 on the exit.

    Now my issue with this: They don't tell us viewers. And if you watch the FP sessions sometimes they'll talk about it but sometimes not. Sometimes they'll talk about it in quali etc but not always. So it really does appear to be arbitrary and inconsistent. But it's really not.

    The issue is that they don't inform the fans about these new "rules".

    But watching quali at least you get to pickup which corners etc have been allowed by just watching the lines the drivers take and see if they are penalized or not. It's not a good system, especially if you're new to F1 (like a lot of Max fans), it can be very difficult to pick up on the intricacies.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by badmonkey View Post
    No question Verstappen jumped the inside curb with all four wheels. The issue for me is the inconsistency, singling out one off course excursion vs dozens if not hundreds of others.
    The way I see it, the issue is that in Max's case, it was 4 wheels off track to complete a pass for podium position. Inconsistent, maybe, but the other off track excursions didn't have such an immediate and big impact on the race result.
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