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Thread: Drive-train rubbing noise?

  1. #1
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    Drive-train rubbing noise?

    I have an issue on my M-Roady with approx. 100K miles where when I let go off the gas, there is almost a rubbing noise coming from the rear-side of the car, almost as if the brakes would be sticking...

    I know it's not brake related because they were just redone and if I tap on the brake the noise goes away.

    My mechanic thinks it's something around the differential shaft, so he took it apart and found this on the flex disk.

    Question - would this ring a bell with anybody as a possible cause?

    Separately - if we're in there I assume we'd want to do the support bearing as well? It can't be in much better shape?

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  2. #2
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    Wow... that one was very much ready to be replaced..

    but I'm pretty sure it's not your rubbing noise in the back..

    can you say more about applying the brakes and the noise goes away?? ... are you familiar with a differential starting to get old and the gear noise that one develops with age/miles? Though that would be more of a moaning sound. ... did your mechanic check the center support bearing? how about the u-joints? likewise the CVs on the half-shafts? ... the closest that I can think of - other than something really has come loose and is rubbing... that might sound like rubbing: would be a rear wheel bearing.. ??

  3. #3
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    We are checking the center support bearing and probably replacing it as well - while we're in there...

    To describe the noise further, the car pulls away normally but when letting go of the gas, there is a rubbing/grinding noise - the closest I would say is when you have a car with really old brakes where the brake guide indicator is now making noise telling you the pads need to be replaced.

    With the brakes being redone recently and the fact that if you do tap the brakes and/or release them it does not correlate with the rubbing, it leads me to believe it's something else - like this disk, the support bearing, or?...

    I think he has or will check the u-joints, and we'll look at the half shafts if this doesn't solve it.

    Any other thoughts please advise! Thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ...also does the group have a recommendation for which parts to get for the Center support bearing especially?

    I noticed aftermarket are in the $50 range and BMW in the $250 range ....BMW also sells the bearing by itself for around $40, plus a few more parts that are part of the center bearing+mount...is it worth just pressing out the old bearing or are these parts even rebuildable?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantm View Post
    We are checking the center support bearing and probably replacing it as well - while we're in there...

    To describe the noise further, the car pulls away normally but when letting go of the gas, there is a rubbing/grinding noise - the closest I would say is when you have a car with really old brakes where the brake guide indicator is now making noise telling you the pads need to be replaced.

    With the brakes being redone recently and the fact that if you do tap the brakes and/or release them it does not correlate with the rubbing, it leads me to believe it's something else - like this disk, the support bearing, or?...

    I think he has or will check the u-joints, and we'll look at the half shafts if this doesn't solve it.

    Any other thoughts please advise! Thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ...also does the group have a recommendation for which parts to get for the Center support bearing especially?

    I noticed aftermarket are in the $50 range and BMW in the $250 range ....BMW also sells the bearing by itself for around $40, plus a few more parts that are part of the center bearing+mount...is it worth just pressing out the old bearing or are these parts even rebuildable?
    I have a '99 2.5L 5sp with 210k miles on it, ie, not an ///M... but in general I can find bimmer parts on eBay for half or less than half of the dealer price... beyond that I'll go with major name replacements instead of the bimmer parts... Centric brake pads, AC/Delco rotors, SKF wheel bearings, KYB shocks and struts; Rouge RSM; my flex disc is a OEM clone - has gone 70k miles... I think in general if you shop around you can get high quality parts, for way less than dealer prices.

    But also, to save money: I like to find a problem, before throwing parts at it... so, until you find a cause, I wouldn't buy anything.

  5. #5
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    I know it's not brake related because they were just redone and if I tap on the brake the noise goes away.
    With the brakes being redone recently and the fact that if you do tap the brakes and/or release them it does not correlate with the rubbing,

    Pick one or the other.


    /.randy

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    Pick one or the other.
    I'm sorry Randy it was mis-spoken.

    If the car is coasting at speed on a flat surface and the noise is present, using the brakes will slow the car down and change the characteristics of the noise/make it go away...but in my opinion this is not as good of a test.

    If the car is coasting and out of gear the noise is not present and tapping the brakes and/or releasing them *quietly* slows down the car.

    Hence my comment that it must be driveline related rather than brakes.

    Sorry once again.

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    Gotcha. I was thinking brake backing plate touching the rotor. But this sounds like it is related to torque on the drivetrain. As bad as it is, I doubt that giubo is making the noise. If it is reverse torque related, the center support is a prime suspect.


    /.randy

  8. #8
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    The center-support bearing if your hand is on the shifter, will be more or less under your elbow; there is also a u-joing about there. Everything else mentioned is behind your butt by a couple feet. That might help decide what to look at most carefully. Also, rear wheel bearings are at the extremes of the car, left and right. The differential is centered. The CVs are just inside the wheel bearings, or right next to the diff. ... quite often good listening will narrow down what you need to more carefully inspect - especially in that some of these by looking or given the force you can apply with a hand, won't be obviously broken.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmushial View Post
    Wow... that one was very much ready to be replaced...
    Nah, plenty of life left in that sucker...



    My first thought was to the handbrake not adjusted correctly__a test is to lightly apply it** while coasting slowly up to a stop__and then the backplate, but Randy W. already had that covered too.

    Differential and/or wheel bearings develop more of a cyclic whine to them, and the CVJs click.




    ** Your owner's manual recommends doing just that periodically, to keep the inside contact surface of the rear rotors & shoes clean and free of corrosion and debris.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    Nah, plenty of life left in that sucker...



    My first thought was to the handbrake not adjusted correctly__a test is to lightly apply it** while coasting slowly up to a stop__and then the backplate, but Randy W. already had that covered too.

    Differential and/or wheel bearings develop more of a cyclic whine to them, and the CVJs click.

    ** Your owner's manual recommends doing just that periodically, to keep the inside contact surface of the rear rotors & shoes clean and free of corrosion and debris.

    I have the cyclic whine no clicking whatsoever.


    Thanks.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantm View Post
    I have the cyclic whine no clicking whatsoever.


    Thanks.
    Find someone__a shop or individual__with an electronic chassis ear and have them clip the microphone/transmitters at various points under the car, and you can pinpoint the origin of the noise.










  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantm View Post
    I have the cyclic whine no clicking whatsoever.


    Thanks.
    Then the question becomes: towards the extreme of the car (left or right); or in the center [this is assuming the source is behind you] ... Left or Right: wheel bearing :-( ; center: diff = just ignore it until you can't stand it anymore ... I replaced my diff at 170k+, after listening to it for some 40k mi.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmushial View Post
    Then the question becomes: towards the extreme of the car (left or right); or in the center [this is assuming the source is behind you] ... Left or Right: wheel bearing :-( ; center: diff = just ignore it until you can't stand it anymore ... I replaced my diff at 170k+, after listening to it for some 40k mi.
    Will pay more attention to it but definitely center rear of the car or center under the car, hence my point of the center shaft, and -- now that you mention it -- the differential as well?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantm View Post
    Will pay more attention to it but definitely center rear of the car or center under the car, hence my point of the center shaft, and -- now that you mention it -- the differential as well?
    Has the diff gone dry, either currently or in the past... could be one of three big bearings there that you're hearing... ?? But the diffs in our cars get loose over time - basically wear in the pinion and carrier bearings, and between the ring and pinion themselves: where the gear lash becomes excessive... the first place you tend to hear a moaning noise is on deceleration or engine braking... and the fact that you're sitting essentially on top of it, it can appear to be quite loud - but in fact it really isn't... but hitting the brakes will tend to stop it in that you're nolonger driving torque through the system backwards anymore. ... if it is one of the diff bearing which has gone dry and is going away: you'll probably have to replace it in a year type timeframe; if it's just wear adding to the lash, then, given you have 100k miles in 17 years... maybe around the next presidential elections you'll have to do something. ... if it's a CV, then you'll be replacing a half-shaft in a months timeframe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    Find someone__a shop or individual__with an electronic chassis ear and have them clip the microphone/transmitters at various points under the car, and you can pinpoint the origin of the noise.


    Diagnoses before replacing random expensive parts?



    NAH.


    /.randy

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmushial View Post
    Has the diff gone dry, either currently or in the past... could be one of three big bearings there that you're hearing... ?? But the diffs in our cars get loose over time - basically wear in the pinion and carrier bearings, and between the ring and pinion themselves: where the gear lash becomes excessive... the first place you tend to hear a moaning noise is on deceleration or engine braking... and the fact that you're sitting essentially on top of it, it can appear to be quite loud - but in fact it really isn't... but hitting the brakes will tend to stop it in that you're nolonger driving torque through the system backwards anymore. ... if it is one of the diff bearing which has gone dry and is going away: you'll probably have to replace it in a year type timeframe; if it's just wear adding to the lash, then, given you have 100k miles in 17 years... maybe around the next presidential elections you'll have to do something. ... if it's a CV, then you'll be replacing a half-shaft in a months timeframe.
    Resurrecting this thread a bit.

    We changed the center support bearing to be safe (we were in there anyway) and the flex disk and I don't think this addressed any of the issues.

    What's really strange is that:

    (a) I definitely hear the grinding noise coming from the back of the car (as I've described it is almost like the brakes were sticking but they are NOT sticking);

    (b) When stopped with the car in neutral the noise is there;

    (c) When stopped with the car in neutral and the clutch DOWN, the noise is gone?

    Based on (c) I would have expected it to be a clutch issue but why would I hear that in the back of the car where the differential is?

    My only other hunch would be -- as has been correctly mentioned in these forums -- that it could be a differential bearing or something else inside the differential in the back. I don't think it's the drive shafts - they were inspected so unless it's something that cannot be seen?

  17. #17
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    B and C

    Stopped, the back half of the trans is connected to the driveshaft and is not turning. With the clutch out, the front half is turning, push the clutch down and the front half coasts to a stop. The noise is either a failed transmission bearing, or you have a light single mass flywheel causing gear roll-over chatter. Probably the latter.


    /.randy

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    Find someone__a shop or individual__with an electronic chassis ear and have them clip the microphone/transmitters at various points under the car, and you can pinpoint the origin of the noise.

    That's some fancy equipment, what happened to someone driving around while you hang out of the window trying to find the noise? I miss the good ol days!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf900rkw View Post
    B and C

    Stopped, the back half of the trans is connected to the driveshaft and is not turning. With the clutch out, the front half is turning, push the clutch down and the front half coasts to a stop. The noise is either a failed transmission bearing, or you have a light single mass flywheel causing gear roll-over chatter. Probably the latter.
    Very interesting -- I checked what's in the car and this is for clutch/flywheel:

    Gripforce, Inc.
    This complete clutch kit includes: FX Racing Heavy-Duty Pressure Plate FX Racing Stage 2 Steel Back Carbon Kevlar Sprung Disc (9-1/2" , 10 spline) Release Bearing Pilot Bearing Alignment Tool Installation Guide FX Racing Lightweight Chromoly Flywheel

    Do you suspect the above flywheel could be the issue?

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    I recommend dropping the transmission and actually having a look, but Randy rf will inform you that I can't resist taking things apart regardless of necessity.

  21. #21
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    That will be your stopped noise for sure. But not the coasting noise. If you want, you can quiet the noise some by replacing the trans fluid with some mollasas; say Amsoil MTL. The cost will be in cold shift quality


    /.randy

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