Ms3 vs VEMS vs Link g4

[Boostedhoopty]

I posted this over in the tuning section also, but I figure maybe more people here will be able to answer my questions. I'm finally ready to buy a standalone for my car and I wanted some opinions before I pull the trigger. I'm leaning towards the new ms3 pnp because of all the features that it comes with standard, but is it worth the $300 more than VEMS and $500 more than link? My goals for the very near future are 700whp on e85 out of my obd1 m52. I would really like to have the flex fuel sensor and I will be drag racing it. I do plan on doing the tuning myself, but if I ever wanted a professional tune in my area or even just help, I would be much more likely to find somebody that has experience with megasqurt based stuff so that is another mark for the ms3


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[e36ShawnnyD]

I'm looking to go standalone too on my m52 turbo obd2, I'm also in need of opinions/advice!

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[wazzu70]

They all work well. It really depends on what options you need to support what you want to do. If Plug and Play is required for some reason that will limit your options. Wiring it up yourself is not difficult at all though.

There are people here who can help set up either system.

[TheJuggernaut]

I would be much more likely to find somebody that has experience with megasqurt based stuff so that is another mark for the ms3

Unless an ECU has a feature that the others don't which you MUST have, and/or you are an expert in installing, configuring and tuning it, the above is all that matters.

[Boostedhoopty]

Unless an ECU has a feature that the others don't which you MUST have, and/or you are an expert in installing, configuring and tuning it, the above is all that matters.

I wouldn't consider myself an expert by any means, but definitely capable of installing and tuning. It would still be nice to know that I had that help if I needed anything though. It seems to me that for all my purposes the features are very similar

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[TheJuggernaut]

I'm sure all of these ECUs will suit your needs. I personally use VEMS and I'm happy with it but as my needs become more advanced, it is still meeting my needs but barely and the means are becoming hacky. For instance, I want to set up a safety based on fuel pressure differential (so not just fuel pressure but fuel pressure normalized by the MAP, so actual injector pressure differential). Serious ECUs will have a menu called safety, and a sub menu for fuel pressure differential and the relevant setting including the input sources and action. With VEMS, they have some internal FP diff calculation internally but it's hardcoded so you can't adjust it or set any kind of filtering. It has "any trim" menus where they're not really ANY but you can set 5 trims where there are certain things which can be added or subtracted based on a condition (just one per trim). So my dad built me a circuit to calculate a filtered pressure differential using the FP and MAP signals, that goes into an analog input and after looking at logs and seeing the voltage which is normal, I set a trim for the redline to subtract 5000 from the rev limit below 2.8 volts... it works but even reading the description it's super gimpy.

But that's not to say the others are going to be better, I just know that higher end ECUs I've seen like Motec and Adaptronic have dedicated and powerful/flexible configurations for these sorts of things.

Another reservation I have about VEMS is that it feels like it's in sustaining mode. They recently released a huge FW update with cool things (like the anytrims above). But the features are coming way slower now than they used to, and the hardware is becoming extremely dated and there don't seem to be any talks about anything new. Maybe they're just all busy on a major hardware revision but right now it feels like a dying platform, as good as it may be for what it is.

But again, all of that to me would be distantly secondary if there was a platform for which you could get much better and easier support locally.

[someguy2800]

I know alot about megasquirt, and a little about vems. I have no opinion on Link. I think Vems has very capable hardware but the software is pretty dated the last time I looked. Megasquirt is growing rapidly in software capability and I don't see Vems catching up anytime soon. Megasquirt allows you to implement pretty complex control strategies integrating launch controls, boost control, traction control, and failsafes on top of each other. For example you can set up launch boost targets that automatically switch to boost by speed after launch, and you can have the traction control lower the boost target progressively with wheel slip so it all works together rather than having control strategies fighting each other.

Of course Adam will read this and laugh at us all with his Motec which he can use to control his DVR via blutooth.

[PEI330Ci]

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the options mentioned here...

Keep in mind that the control strategies I wanted to implement with a stand-alone ECU in 2006, became available in 2014....so sometimes you won't get everything you want....but you will be much better off than flashing a DME.

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Of course Adam will read this and laugh at us all with his Motec which he can use to control his DVR via blutooth.

...actually...I use it to hack other ECUs via Wifi and steal their tunes. Just driving by a car....like a Geely...and I've got their tune. For some reason my car runs worse now though....

[Boostedhoopty]

Sounds like I may be better off just spending the little bit of extra money and going with megasquirt. I can't imagine ever needing to upgrade from that! Crazy to think I had close to the same money in buying my miller war setup 2 years ago haha

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[dburt86]

I’ve heard people love the link stuff. I’ve poked around with vems and link but not enough to truly form an opinion because you really need some time with something to get used to it.

i really like the ms3 stuff. I’ve dont a ton of it. A nice thing about it is they listen to feature request

[C3Ferrari]

I've had great success with Megasquirt versions 2, 3, and MS3Pro, on M20's M30's, and the M73. I've also worked with Haltech Marelli, and Electromotive ECUs, and the MS3Pro is as good as anything else I've seen. I highly recommend it. As others have mentioned, they are continuously improving their software, which is very user-friendly.

[wazzu70]

...actually...I use it to hack other ECUs via Wifi and steal their tunes. Just driving by a car....like a Geely...and I've got their tune. For some reason my car runs worse now though....

The problem is you got the standard tune. The Geely sport tune is really good. If you can source the works team tune then you can go plaid when you hit the accelerator!!!

[wazzu70]

Juggernauts assessment of VEMS is pretty spot on. Way back in the day VEMS was a clear winner as far as hardware is concerned. Now MS seems to have caught up and is developing improvements constantly.

With the MS PnP available now for OBD1 and OBD2 soon, there will be a lot of community knowledge on that platform. Thats something that would weigh on my decision if it were me.

[NY98M3]

i really like the ms3 stuff. I’ve dont a ton of it. A nice thing about it is they listen to feature request

Derek - have you talked to them about what we would want/need for our platforms? What do you expect them to add to the PnP version?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

MS3/Pro hardware has a clear victory presently over VEMS hardware... it's just newer.

That said, VEMS ecu is still very capable and has the ability to do just about everything the MS does... possibly even more even currently if you're creative with the hardware and software (anytrim). All that while not having to use TunerStudio software which is IMO the biggest issue with any MS box (other than the older MS boxes just being to DIY/crappy). VEMS hardware is basically maxed out and while there are rumors of new hardware to come eventually it's currently just a rumor to most.

Officially VEMS doesn't have Flex fuel and doesn't have CAN. You CAN make both work but it's not an elegant/easy way like most other mainstream ECU's.

Otherwise the VEMS ECU will do everything just as well as any other ECU and for the price very, very hard to beat considering what you do get:

2x VERY good on-board WB controllers (LSU 4.2/4.9)
2x EGT
2x full windowed knock control
PWM cooling fan and fuel pump control
2 wheel speed traction control
all motorsport functions (lunch, ALS, flat-shift, etc)
native AIM datastream (can be put into CAN bus w/ adapter)
DBW control
up to 4x cam control (out of the box control for S54 - also control for S65 TB/IDLE & 4x CAM's via CAN stream)
VERY good PID boost control system
much better tuning suite than MS
plus much more...

plus they make a pnp system as well... so the platform/hardware is aged but very capable.

[dburt86]

Derek - have you talked to them about what we would want/need for our platforms? What do you expect them to add to the PnP version?

I assume they obd2 version will be very similar to the obd1 units, but you guys will 100% need atleast 1 extra vr input so you can easily hook up a abs front wheel speed for traction

your rear speed will come digital already from the cluster so any input that can take some frequency will work for that.

a robust output like the main board injector Driver found on the ms3x would be really helpful for driving meth pumps and what not, but that’s not a trully needed.

i wouldn’t be surprised if they had trouble getting the odb2 cam sensor to work, because that sensor sounds like a shit show.

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But no, I haven’t talked to them about it lol, not since the conception of the odb1 versions

[daytona M3]

what about Maxxecu?Andreas(PPF) is using it for years now,

http://www.maxxecu.com/

[Matt Cramer]

I assume they obd2 version will be very similar to the obd1 units, but you guys will 100% need atleast 1 extra vr input so you can easily hook up a abs front wheel speed for traction

We built them with 2 extra VR inputs so you could use both front wheel speed sensors if you want.

Right now the main thing holding up the OBD2 group buy is that we had a couple other MSPNPs we were trying to get finished and out the door so we could give this our undivided attention.