M62TUB44 Swap or not???

[KVF]

Please forgive me for not doing more pre searching before asking the following questions, but my home computer is down, so I've been doing everything via the not so smart phone and what I've come up with in searches has been limited.

The details: I have a 95 530i 5speed with 165k essentially trouble free miles. I daily the car in fair weather without issue.

A mechanic friend of a friend dropped in my lap for 500 bucks, a 120k well running M62TUB44 originally out of a I believe a 2000 740i. However, the engine was last running in a 95 840i (has had the cam gear weld stuff done). I've been in the 840i with the motor and it ran well. It comes complete with headers, flywheel, tuned ecu and has all of the wiring harnesses attached.

The questions... Does the above information essentially make this a drop in swap or will I still need to wrestle with obd1 vs obd2 conversion problems? I'd obviously refresh trans and motor mounts along with upgrading the clutch, but would the driveshaft hold up to the added power? I ultimately want a LSD so any suggestions about good ratios are appreciated.

I've only done same engine replacement swaps in the past, so I just want to be certain about how involved of a project I'd be undertaking. I'm hoping that I'll just be able to refresh the timing chain guides and various gaskets/seals and drop this in. Worth the effort? Are there any significant factors I've overlooked?

Thanks for reading and any insight is most appreciated.

[M60B40Bimmer]

While I cannot answer your question about it being a drop in swap as i've only owned a e34 540i, I may be able to answer other questions.

Driveshaft: You shouldn't need to worry about your driveshaft until you're much higher in HP/Torque. Probably around the 550+ mark. (as long as the driveshaft is a similar design to the m5 and 535i).

Diff Ratio: I'd recommend a 2.93 or 3.15. Something in that area should be fun.

Worth it: Yes, i think it would be a very worthwhile swap. Fun and moderately reliable with great highway mileage for the power.

Overlooked Factors: You'd want a Getrag 420g 6 speed from a manual 540/840. Stronger transmission with an additional gear.

cheers

[AHenry014]

Overlooked Factors: You'd want a Getrag 420g 6 speed from a manual 540/840. Stronger transmission with an additional gear.

I would be apprehensive claiming this. You are correct in claiming that the 420g is a strong transmission. I have read that it is very similar to the 6spd found behind the 2JZ in the Supra. Lots of power put through those without issue. On the other hand, the 5spd found behind the 3L in the 530I is a ZF trans, very similar to that found in the e36 m3, the 91-92 m50 e34, z3, etc etc. This transmission is known to be a great deal stronger than its getrag counterpart.

IMO, you have a manual trans that fits behind a v8 already. You would be hard pressed to overpower the transmission you have. The first 5 gears of the 6spd closely match that of the 5spd. If you can live without the overdrive, then keep what you have. Your car has a medium case diff. I ran a 3.23 LSD medium case diff in my m60/6spd car and it was perfect. That diff can be found in the 91-93 525i cars, which offered the LSD as an option.

The driveshaft should be fine. Plenty of people putting oodles of power through the factory shaft. I ran a frankenstein 525i shaft in my m60/6spd swap in my touring and was not friendly to it. Worked great.

Is a e31 95 car obd2? Our e34's were certainly still obd1. If obd1 converted already, then it should be basically plug and play, using the harness from your b30.

[KVF]

Thank you both for the replies.

I'm glad to hear the driveshaft shouldn't be an issue, and AHenry pretty much sums up my feelings on the transmission. I'll refresh anything that should be refreshed, but I don't want to spend coin on another transmission for marginal gains. I'm actually only doing this swap because it basically fell in my lap. Beyond the tune and exhaust, I'm not going to be chasing any additional hp.

AHenry, yes the 840 was OBD1, but I was nervous that there still may be some model differences that would cause me concern. Good to hear that merely using my current harness should mitigate issues.

Thanks again and if there are any items you think I should be refreshing that I've missed, please feel free to make note.

[AHenry014]

There may or may not be differences in the headers (take a trip over to realoem.com and compare part numbers), to which you should find some factory e34 b40 headers. the b30 headers are smaller in diameter IIRC. There may be other e31 to e34 differences, but since you have a v8 car already, it should be as simple as swapping you b30 stuff over (i would be curious about the motor mount arms, but again, check out realoem).

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oh and if that flywheel was for a 6spd car, you cant use it with the 5spd trans. You will have to use your e34 flywheel or upgrade to a TTV or the like. Inspect/Replace clutch while in there. Seeing as how it was a vanos m60, it is smart to go in there and do the timing chains/guides.

[mboor]

You can (and should) use your b30 exhaust manifolds, they are the same part# as the B40 manifolds (check realoem). The rest of the B30 exhaust is smaller in diameter so you should think about using an E34 540 exhaust or making a custom exhaust. The M62 exhaust manifolds from the E38 and E39 will not fit the E34 chassis without modification. i've heard of people converting a non vanos M62 to obd1, but never with an M62tu. The B30 5sp and driveshaft will hold up just fine. The stock clutch should hold the power also, but its a good time to upgrade. I doubt your B30 harness is of any value with this swap, and since the M62 engine comes complete with harness, i'd just use that. I'm pretty familiar with the nuts and bolts of this swap, it's relatively straight forward, but idk much about converting the OBD2 engine to OBD1. Definitely interested to see how it was done.

[Smoky540i]

There's a good condition M60B40 740i in my local yard if you need any small bits I could probably grab them.

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[M60B40Bimmer]

I would be apprehensive claiming this. You are correct in claiming that the 420g is a strong transmission. I have read that it is very similar to the 6spd found behind the 2JZ in the Supra. Lots of power put through those without issue. On the other hand, the 5spd found behind the 3L in the 530I is a ZF trans, very similar to that found in the e36 m3, the 91-92 m50 e34, z3, etc etc. This transmission is known to be a great deal stronger than its getrag counterpart.


IMO, you have a manual trans that fits behind a v8 already. You would be hard pressed to overpower the transmission you have. The first 5 gears of the 6spd closely match that of the 5spd. If you can live without the overdrive, then keep what you have. Your car has a medium case diff. I ran a 3.23 LSD medium case diff in my m60/6spd car and it was perfect. That diff can be found in the 91-93 525i cars, which offered the LSD as an option.

The driveshaft should be fine. Plenty of people putting oodles of power through the factory shaft. I ran a frankenstein 525i shaft in my m60/6spd swap in my touring and was not friendly to it. Worked great.

Is a e31 95 car obd2? Our e34's were certainly still obd1. If obd1 converted already, then it should be basically plug and play, using the harness from your b30.

Correction on my previous statement, "the 420g is also a strong transmission compared to the strong zf5 but with an additional gear. The zf5 would be just fine also." Sorry for the rushed, general response.

[moroza]

With a non-overdrive 5-speed like the one in your 530, that thing will be screaming on the highway with any diff ratio above 3.

Not sure about the trans, but the rest of the driveline should take the B44 no problem.

Hard to say whether it'll drop right in without knowing exactly what's been done to it. If the VANOS was welded shut and a crank sensor bracket attached to the timing cover, then it should be ready to accept OBD1 M60 wiring (as it would have in that E31) and be plug-n-play physicallyy, albeit with different fuel and ignition maps.

See here, post 6.

[KVF]

Thanks again for all of the replies! I'm always impressed with the wealth of information and willingness to share around this place.

I spoke to the mechanic who had this in his E31 and he confirmed it was all set up to run OBD1. He warned me, not to play around with the vanos as it had been welded and a sensor bracket was indeed attached to the timing case cover. He also said I'll need to use my B30 timing case cover on the other side, to incorporate the oil filter and housing. Beyond that he felt it should be a pretty simple swap.

I will look into the motor mount and arm differences on real oem and I'll certainly read the thread moroza linked.

I'll do some more research tonight to try and find a medium case LSD in the 2.93 range.

Seeing that I get so much from this forum and don't give much back, once I start this process I'll update the thread with pics, part numbers etc... Hopefully I can detail what I've done well enough to help someone else.

Thanks again and please feel free to keep suggestions flowing. It's much appreciated!

[mboor]

With a non-overdrive 5-speed like the one in your 530, that thing will be screaming on the highway with any diff ratio above 3.

Not sure about the trans, but the rest of the driveline should take the B44 no problem.

Hard to say whether it'll drop right in without knowing exactly what's been done to it. If the VANOS was welded shut and a crank sensor bracket attached to the timing cover, then it should be ready to accept OBD1 M60 wiring (as it would have in that E31) and be plug-n-play physicallyy, albeit with different fuel and ignition maps.

See here, post 6.

My M60B44 with the same 5sp trans and driveshaft out of my 530i and a 3.64 rear diff sings to the tune of about 4k rpms at 70mph. yeah, it screams, but its fun and it keeps me from speeding too much. A 3.15 would be much more livable for most people, im contemplating a diff swap since i spend about 45mins every day on the highway. The 5sp is basically the same trans as in the E36 M3's, just with a different belhousing bolt pattern for the V8. They hold 600=whp on turbo M3's so i don't think it will be an issue.

[AHenry014]

a 3.15 is only offered in a large case, which would be a far more involved swap than tossing a medium case LSD in place of the open diff medium case thats in there. 3.23 would be a great ratio for that. It wouldnt be too much of a jump from the factory 3.07 you have in there.

http://www.vinesauto.com/diffratio.htm

[mboor]

i wasn't aware that 3.15 was a large case diff, admittedly, im not up to snuff on my BMW diff knowledge. 3.23 would be a good choice as well.

Please correct me if im wrong, i thought there were 3 bmw diff's, small, med, and large case. wouldn't an E36 M3 diff be a direct bolt into a 530i, since they are both med case, with the exception on maybe axle/diff flanges?

[Smoky540i]

I think there are indeed 3 sizes of diff cases. The E36 M3 I believe also uses the medium case (188mm) diff but the mounting points are not at all the same as an E34. In theory I think you could swap the internals to the E34 case but that's a process...

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[mboor]

that makes sense, i guess i wasn't really thinking it through.

[AHenry014]

Smoky is right, the diff housing itself is different and not direct swap into an e34. The 188mm diff fits in the e34 case, but as stated, is a bit more work than necessary, knowing that a 3.23 is generally readily available. FWIW, my 92 525i had a 3.23 LSD in it. When i got my 94 530i touring, it was a direct bolt in. No input or output flange swap necessary.

[KVF]

FWIW, my 92 525i had a 3.23 LSD in it. When i got my 94 530i touring, it was a direct bolt in. No input or output flange swap necessary.

That ends that. The search for a 3.23 LSD begins.

Once again, great information guys. It's most appreciated.

[moroza]

A 5-speed with a 2.65 diff will have about the same top gear as a 6-speed with a 3.15. And I thought my 3.15 with a 6-speed was on the steep side. These motors make a metric buttload of low-mid torque and there is no need to wind them out if you're just cruising (and if you're not, that's what downshifting is for). To each their own.

You can't use the B30 upper timing cover with the B44 lower timing cover. They're designed for different gaskets and the B30's upper wants to bolt to the lower, but the B44's doesn't have the threaded holes for that. Oilfilter housing will either be a contraption or just attached by one bolt (been working for me since '09).

[AHenry014]

If the engine comes with the remote setup, i would entertain finding a way to mount that over swapping timing covers.

[mboor]

A 5-speed with a 2.65 diff will have about the same top gear as a 6-speed with a 3.15. And I thought my 3.15 with a 6-speed was on the steep side. These motors make a metric buttload of low-mid torque and there is no need to wind them out if you're just cruising (and if you're not, that's what downshifting is for). To each their own.

You can't use the B30 upper timing cover with the B44 lower timing cover. They're designed for different gaskets and the B30's upper wants to bolt to the lower, but the B44's doesn't have the threaded holes for that. Oilfilter housing will either be a contraption or just attached by one bolt (been working for me since '09).

This is correct, if you swap the B30 timing cover, you will have to swap the lower and both upper covers. i used all the B30 timing covers and oil filter housing and everything bolted right up to the B44. i don't think you can mismatch parts here, either use all B30/B40 parts or use the B44 stuff.

The 3.64 diff was in the car when i got it years ago. It's been my winter car so i never got around to swapping it, but i agree it is a little obnoxious with the 1 to 1 5 speed. A 3.23 should keep highway cruising around 3k-3.5K rpms. Still a little high. A 2.56 ratio would be great on the highway, but i think after driving with the 3.64 for so long i wouldn't be happy with the acceleration. That's quite a big difference.

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Thanks for clearing up my confusion with the dff's guys

[KVF]

Great info about the diff and timing case covers. I want the set-up to look as close to stock as possible, so I'll likely go the 1 bolt route. I imagine converting to both B30 upper and lower covers is a major undertaking. Additionally, I'd like to set up the B44 as completely as possible before pulling out the B30.

I read someplace else that the B44 intake manifold needs to be swapped out for a B40 unit, but I just don't see why that would be the case. I'm assuming my source was just inadvertently quoting from some sort of Frankenstein set-up...

Thanks again for the help guys; most appreciated!

[AHenry014]

the vanos intake manifold has smaller runners than the b40 or non vanos b44 manifolds. The vanos manifold is actually quite similar to the b30 manifold you have.

[KVF]

the vanos intake manifold has smaller runners than the b40 or non vanos b44 manifolds. The vanos manifold is actually quite similar to the b30 manifold you have.

Ah, so that's a performance issue, not a function issue, correct? If so, I'll check the yards for a B40 intake, but I won't lose sleep if I don't find one.

[AHenry014]

right, performance only.

[moroza]

...And you can't swap lower timing covers without also swapping the entire timing chain system - the timing idler gear on an M60 requires different baffles on the back of the timing cover than the B44's U-guide - which will also involve swapping the heads and building an M60B44.