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Thread: Fail: DIY'ing a falling headliner

  1. #26
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    I guess it's a matter of preference... When I had to do my headliner it wasn't even a question, I was doing the suede material. Love it in sand beige -- adds a premium feel to the interior. All pillars, sunroof, and headliner self installed was right with Frankie's quote. Think it was $260.

    Matches very good with the visors and they don't look out of place. I will get some leather or vinyl ones if I find some
    Last edited by racer2086; 10-14-2017 at 09:51 PM.
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
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  2. #27
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    I did my headliner 3 or 4 years ago and it has held on perfectly. I rolled back one side onto the other side and then took a paint roller and used white latex paint and rolled the orange goo up and stripped it from the roller as it built up and when no more goo came off I rolled the liner back on to the paint and did the other side and the paint worked as glue perfectly.
    The World is ruled by Kings and Queens that blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
    When answering my questions please use a qualifier if you are not sure.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillConn View Post
    Having the fabric not match would bother the hell out of me....Did you check the link for www.headlinerexpress.com that posted earlier? They sell OEM BMW headliner fabric that would be a perfect match...
    That's just the thing: it's not OEM matching fabric, contrary to what is claimed.

    I linked to Headliner Express in post #23 as an example of the fabric I chose. It's standard issue stuff, available to all upholsterers and sold as "factory" replacement material. But it's definitely not, because BMW doesn't sell their material to the aftermarket. I checked.

    This isn't my first rodeo. I had my 840 refinished in the very material shown at Headliner Express. I was immediately disappointed. I then had it refinished in suede...which was worse. I then sprang $614 for an OEM replacement headliner.

    It's time to confess, folks: there are NO good options for headliner replacement....unless you want to pay about $1K for all new parts.

    Frankie
    Texas, USA
    frankies-bmw.com

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
    That's just the thing: it's not OEM matching fabric, contrary to what is claimed.

    I linked to Headliner Express in post #23 as an example of the fabric I chose. It's standard issue stuff, available to all upholsterers and sold as "factory" replacement material. But it's definitely not, because BMW doesn't sell their material to the aftermarket. I checked.

    This isn't my first rodeo. I had my 840 refinished in the very material shown at Headliner Express. I was immediately disappointed. I then had it refinished in suede...which was worse. I then sprang $614 for an OEM replacement headliner.

    It's time to confess, folks: there are NO good options for headliner replacement....unless you want to pay about $1K for all new parts.
    Damn! Well that was going to be my plan when my headliner fails.....

  5. #30
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    Enlighten me but, what's so great about BMW original headliners? Sure they match the color of the interiors and stretch well giving a smooth look but other than that it's just a fabric with a foam liner on the back side. All the aftermarket stuff have pretty good colors that match fairly well with newer, thicker foam backing and stretches just as well. My 98 had only 39K on the odometer and was stored mostly indoors when I got it and the stuff still fell off from the ceiling. In my case, I was determined to get rid of the BMW stuff and use something else. Not only that, all the fabrics around the map light covers, sunroof, A, B and C pillars were starting to wrinkle too. Do them all in the same material and you've got a perfectly matching interior.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greygoose82 View Post
    ...what's so great about BMW original headliners?
    Quality of materials.

    Aftermarket fabric is closer in quality to BMW's standard headliner fabric, which can be seen on E36's and E39's. But even in this comparison, it falls short. Although it's difficult to discern from photos, aftermarket fabric has distinct weave patterns on the base material that looks like parallel lines, and can be seen thru the soft fabric. BMW standard materials have none of that, along with a deeper "plush" content.

    BMW's premium fabric, on the other hand, is even better. Reserved for E31's and E38's, it has a finer "plush" factor with an even nicer feel -- almost like velvet. Also, the color looks nicer, especially in beige. The rear speaker box and sun shade deck are covered in it too, leaving another area to deal with.

    Granted, they eventually fall down after the backing material degrades, but so does other material.

    If you don't know the difference I guess it's not that big a deal. But after having BMW's premium stuff, installing aftermarket fabric makes the car look cheaper and is a real downer.

    Frankie
    Texas, USA
    frankies-bmw.com

  7. #32
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    After having sat in a few of my buddies 740s and 750s with chromeline and premium factory options, the materials all look and feel very nice. I give them plenty of compliments for it. Getting back in my car at the end of the day though, I don't miss a thing. The difference is negligible when comparing something that is newer, works well, easy to obtain vs. something older, premium in quality, but too much effort to obtain.

  8. #33
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    are slow
    If desperate, use self tapping screws with covers.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greygoose82 View Post
    Enlighten me but, what's so great about BMW original headliners? Sure they match the color of the interiors and stretch well giving a smooth look but other than that it's just a fabric with a foam liner on the back side. All the aftermarket stuff have pretty good colors that match fairly well with newer, thicker foam backing and stretches just as well. My 98 had only 39K on the odometer and was stored mostly indoors when I got it and the stuff still fell off from the ceiling. In my case, I was determined to get rid of the BMW stuff and use something else. Not only that, all the fabrics around the map light covers, sunroof, A, B and C pillars were starting to wrinkle too. Do them all in the same material and you've got a perfectly matching interior.
    I agree. My black micro fiber suede looks great and is holding fine.
    ---- Processing Individual ----
    Z1XX Upholstery
    Seats front and back in Epingle / leather englishgruen,
    As Schl.Nr. B9EG.
    Front seat backrest in Montana Englishgruen (No. 8 174 861)
    Other interior equipment as for Volleder Nappa englischgruen,
    Schl.Nr. P5EG

  10. #35
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    It begins:

    headliner_start.jpg

    Frankie
    Texas, USA
    frankies-bmw.com

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
    Is it necessary to remove the sunroof and passenger seat?! Oh fudge me...
    Current: 2007 Z4 M Coupe (blue/black)
    Previous: 2001 740iL Sport (black/black), 2000 528i Sport (black/tan), 1995 318is (black/black), 1991 318is (white/black)

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruskii View Post
    Is it necessary to remove the sunroof and passenger seat?!
    Yes. (Sunroof has to come out to remove the liner. You might get by without removing the FR seat, but it sure makes things easier.)

    Frankie
    Texas, USA
    frankies-bmw.com

  13. #38
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    Some notes so far:

    • Don't let an upholsterer perform the removal/installation work. Not only will you save about $300 doing it yourself, there are simply too many details involved in re-installation...details which will certainly be overlooked by a third party.

    • Self removal/installation affords you the opportunity to clean the interior and related parts. Orange goo will be everywhere, and it is especially important that it be cleaned from the channels of the door surround trim, in which the new headliner/trim will rest. No one else would do this.

    • Installation will take 2-3 times as long as removal. Plan for 2 days. This is due to the numerous details mentioned above, such as trim alignments, cleaning, fixing, and especially: sunroof installation (which, I guarantee, no one else would do right).

    • There will be plenty of bending, stooping, and contorting of your body. You'll need to rest.


    There are 10 pieces to be covered:

    (1) headliner
    (1) sliding ceiling liner (sunroof panel trim can stay [on steel roofs])
    (1) switch panel (for sunroof switch, UGDO, etc)
    (1) motion sensor cover
    (2) A-pillar covers
    (2) B-pillar covers
    (2) C-pillar covers

    Optional:
    Rear speaker box cover,
    Sun shade deck

    Sun visors will not be covered (at least that's what my upholsterer said).
    Last edited by Frankie; 10-24-2017 at 09:29 AM. Reason: additional info

    Frankie
    Texas, USA
    frankies-bmw.com

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruskii View Post
    Is it necessary to remove the sunroof and passenger seat?! Oh fudge me...

    No it is not necessary to remove either to remove headliner.
    The World is ruled by Kings and Queens that blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
    When answering my questions please use a qualifier if you are not sure.
    The more I work on this car the less I respect German engineering.
    When you speak in Absolutes you are always wrong!

    Semper Fi


  15. #40
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    If you don't remove the sunroof glass, you can't get to the rear screws holding the headliner in. Some write ups say to manually crank the glass back to get at them. Some write ups say just pull the headliner out of the clips, but I'm sure that would rip the clips off the board backing. It is 6 screws to get the glass out. It is not that hard. Plus, then you can take out the retractable shade to have redone.

    Agree with Frankie that there are a lot of details that others would overlook, which is why I do the removal/install myself. It helps to have a 2nd person.

    It can be done in a couple hours. After you do it once it is a lot easier. The hard parts (for me) are to get all the rear tabs clipped up in the metal track above the rear window and to get the front lined up. Make sure none of the wiring or plugs up front are in the way! I struggled for 20 minutes trying to figure out why things weren't lining up until I found out that the sunroof switch and plug were caught up under the headliner. After that it was smooth sailing.

    The most important thing to do to make everything fit perfectly is to pull the top half of the fuzzy door trim off the metal track of all 4 doors! Get the headliner and panels back on and reinstall the fuzzy trim, which fits over all the paneling to make for a seamless fit. It is essential to have a smooth plastic trim panel tool to slide along to make sure nothing is caught up or wrinkled as you put the fuzzy weatherstrip back -- all pillars, headliner, and especially the lower half of the b-pillars.
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hueristic View Post
    No it is not necessary to remove either to remove headliner.
    +1

    Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

  17. #42
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    It's done.

    The results? It definitely looks good (my wife likes it). But it's not OEM material:

    ceiling_liner_2.jpg

    The difference is almost impossible to convey in amateur photos. Nevertheless, since the sun visors were not covered, a comparison between color and texture may be seen here:

    sunvisor_comparison.jpg

    To my eye, the material is puffy and pillowy, due to the extra thickness of the backing pad. This is especially noticeable around pillar covers:

    a_pillar.jpg

    In the image above, notice the grid pattern of the underlying fabric, which is not visible (or barely visible) on OEM stuff. The material also looks like it may be subject to "pilling" if handled too much.

    Some final notes:

    * Dimples in the fabric are the inevitable result of handling during installation, as can be seen here (especially in front of the motion sensor):

    ceiling_liner.jpg

    I'm told these dimples will work themselves out over time, but I'm not so sure.

    * The extra thickness of the material will make the sliding ceiling liner difficult to move. This presents a problem mainly for those with steel roofs. You will not be able to slide the liner into its full forward "lock" position after installation...without this clever little trick: don a pair latex (dish) gloves to provide extra gripping power. Now palm the liner and slide it forward. Ha! (I credit my wife for this idea.)

    I stand by my original time estimate for re-installation: 2 days. This applies to conscientious owners performing this task for the first time, and especially when performing clean-up duties during and after the work. You'll also want to ventilate your car for several days afterwards to release the smell of fabric glue. Finally, do NOT let an upholstery shop do the installation work. There are simply too many details owners will want to consider.

    In end, if you're not aware of the difference between OEM premium fabric and aftermarket, this repair will leave you pleased. However, in the eye of OEM purists, it's a definite downgrade.

    Frankie
    Texas, USA
    frankies-bmw.com

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    If you don't remove the sunroof glass, you can't get to the rear screws holding the headliner in. Some write ups say to manually crank the glass back to get at them. Some write ups say just pull the headliner out of the clips, but I'm sure that would rip the clips off the board backing. It is 6 screws to get the glass out. It is not that hard. Plus, then you can take out the retractable shade to have redone.

    Agree with Frankie that there are a lot of details that others would overlook, which is why I do the removal/install myself. It helps to have a 2nd person.

    It can be done in a couple hours. After you do it once it is a lot easier. The hard parts (for me) are to get all the rear tabs clipped up in the metal track above the rear window and to get the front lined up. Make sure none of the wiring or plugs up front are in the way! I struggled for 20 minutes trying to figure out why things weren't lining up until I found out that the sunroof switch and plug were caught up under the headliner. After that it was smooth sailing.

    The most important thing to do to make everything fit perfectly is to pull the top half of the fuzzy door trim off the metal track of all 4 doors! Get the headliner and panels back on and reinstall the fuzzy trim, which fits over all the paneling to make for a seamless fit. It is essential to have a smooth plastic trim panel tool to slide along to make sure nothing is caught up or wrinkled as you put the fuzzy weatherstrip back -- all pillars, headliner, and especially the lower half of the b-pillars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post

    * The extra thickness of the material will make the sliding ceiling liner difficult to move. This presents a problem mainly for those with steel roofs. You will not be able to slide the liner into its full forward "lock" position after installation...without this clever little trick: don a pair latex (dish) gloves to provide extra gripping power. Now palm the liner and slide it forward. Ha! (I credit my wife for this idea.)

    I stand by my original time estimate for re-installation: 2 days. This applies to conscientious owners performing this task for the first time, and especially when performing clean-up duties during and after the work. You'll also want to ventilate your car for several days afterwards to release the smell of fabric glue. Finally, do NOT let an upholstery shop do the installation work. There are simply too many details owners will want to consider.
    I am planning to completely re-do my a/b/c pillars, sun roof cover and headliner with black cloth. Do you guys have any other tips and tricks?


    And I just noticed this: where is the grab handle for the sun roof cover?!
    ceiling_liner.jpg
    Last edited by Ruskii; 11-29-2017 at 08:27 PM. Reason: missing grab handle on sun roof cover
    Current: 2007 Z4 M Coupe (blue/black)
    Previous: 2001 740iL Sport (black/black), 2000 528i Sport (black/tan), 1995 318is (black/black), 1991 318is (white/black)

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruskii View Post
    I am planning to completely re-do my a/b/c pillars, sun roof cover and headliner with black cloth. Do you guys have any other tips and tricks?


    And I just noticed this: where is the grab handle for the sun roof cover?!
    ceiling_liner.jpg
    Late in production they started throwing parts they had extras of on cars - steel sunroofs, dual pane shorty glass, etc. This looks like a steel sunroof recipient.
    See my E38 parts for sale on eBay: click here!
    PM me here for a 5% discount on any of them!

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruskii View Post
    ...where is the grab handle for the sun roof cover?!
    I have a steel roof, not a glass roof. Steel roof liners are completely automated, thus no handle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruskii View Post
    Do you guys have any other tips and tricks?
    Yes.

    I have just concluded: Standard material is just not suitable for sunroof liner covers. It is simply too thick. The result is that, when the roof is tilted (and the liner retracts about 1/3), the material is pressed against the sunroof opening. When closed, indentations are left in the material. You can see contours of the opening across the rear 1/3 of the liner fabric....not very attractive. This is difficult to convey in photos, but take my word for it: it looks bad.

    My advice: do not recover the sliding liner.

    Secondly, dimples left in the material from handling during installation do NOT go away, contrary to what upholsterers say. Ask me how I know. I think the only way to prevent dimples is to allow the fabric glue to dry completely before installation. That's about 2 weeks, judging by the time required for the stinky glue smell to dissipate from inside my car.

    Good luck. You'll need it.

    Frankie
    Texas, USA
    frankies-bmw.com

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