Fail: DIY'ing a falling headliner

[Frankie]

In short: don't try it.

Since I read about people repairing a falling headliner using spray glue, I thought I would give it a try. How hard could it be? I started with the pillar covers as a test, since they are easily removed.

Pulling off the fabric reveals the messy orange goo. About 30% sticks to the fabric. Using an old paint scraper, I go through about 10,000 paper towels scraping it off the covers, while it sticks to everything I touch. Chemical solvents help keep my hands clean, eventually resulting in nausea.

Next, in order to re-use the original fabric, I try to remove the orange goo from the fabric as best I can while going through another 10,000 paper towels.

Next it's time for the spray glue.

Keeping the covers downwind, I spray on the glue. But no matter how it's done, some glue always gets on your clothes and skin -- and up your nose -- because the wind shifts. Time for more chemical solvents, and more nausea.

Applying the fabric to the covers isn't too bad, just getting it to align as before is a bit challenging. Let it dry overnight. In the morning, I sample the results, but something's not right. The glue isn't holding. I can peel the fabric off the cover with minimal effort. What a joke.

I'm sorry, but I really don't know what world people live in when they talk about using glue...for anything. I've come to hate glue. Glue is for children to play with. I would've had better results using bird crap instead, because that won't come off after it dries. Spray glue has the holding power of dried chewing gum.

No more fooling around. I'm off to seek the services of a professional auto upholsterer.

[ancho]

Reusing the fabric is a fool's errand. The reason headliners fall is that the foam backing deteriorates - that's the goo - and once it's lost it's bond to the fabric, the fabric has very little ability to adhere to any surface, regardless of what adhesive you use.

[aom7]

Oh my, reusing the fabric would create additional issues indeed! It causes you to have to take extra unnecessary care. I would have instead replaced it with a foam-backed suede, like I did. If you review my mini restomod thread, it gave some input. Yes, it's time-consuming (but not overly complicated). I used latex gloves and also a scraper to remove the yellow goop. Took a couple of hours, but then left me with a clean backing for the 3M Spray on glue. It's been about 2 years and it's still holding on tight.

EDIT: Post #26 addresses the headliner work I did: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...stoMod-kind-of

[racer2086]

I feel your pain, but your post was a great read

It's not worth the effort, though, as an auto upholsterer won't cost all that much to have the pieces done. I took all mine out of the car, so the only labor was them cleaning stuff and applying the new material. I went with the suede material. The material isn't all that expensive. Most of the cost is the labor.

[Bill837]

Yeah, reusing the fabric is a severe no-go.

[Frankie]

Regardless of fabric used, there's still the issue of the glue. It simply is a joke (3M "Super 77" for fabric yadda yadda). I tested it separately on some clean fabric and cardboard. Chewing gum would've worked better.

I've used ABS cement (on ABS plastic), metal epoxy (on metal), wood glue (on wood), and Liquid Nails on light-duty household jobs. None of it holds up. In fact, I've used Elmer's glue to secure small areas of sagging fabric and it holds better than this spray stuff. I'm convinced now more than ever, there simply isn't a glue sold at retail stores worth a crap.

[testify]

It sounds like you were working outside. Did you leave it outside to dry? What was the temperature like? Temps and humidity will affect drying time.

The 3M spray adhesive definitely works very well so there must be another variable.

[ancho]

DId you let both surfaces get tacky then bond them together? It won't work well at all if you join the surfaces while the adhesive is wet.

[dannyzabolotny]

Yeah, don't bother reusing the fabric, it's garbage. Remove the headliner and take it to an upholstery shop, it really shouldn't be much money since you've done the labor of actually removing the headliner. And you may as well upgrade to an alcantara/suede, it feels a lot more premium and looks really nice in these cars.

[mslevin]

Yeah, don't bother reusing the fabric, it's garbage. Remove the headliner and take it to an upholstery shop, it really shouldn't be much money since you've done the labor of actually removing the headliner. And you may as well upgrade to an alcantara/suede, it feels a lot more premium and looks really nice in these cars.

This seems to be the best way to do it, but I don't think I have a car big enough to carry my E38's headliner. Unless you can somehow fit it in the car behind the front seats?

[Aitch]

I've previously used 3M 77 on headliners and it does the job fairly well. As others have said, you have to put it on both surfaces and let it dry to tacky first (and not use TOO much or it will be too wet). And any remaining glue on the headliner material is going to interfere with the 77's ability to bond - and it's unlikely you could really properly remove the old adhesive even if you've gotten most of the orange stuff off.... there's still chemical residue there.

Having said all that, I came to prefer 3M 76 instead. I found it came out in more of a dry webbing - a cross between silly string and what you'd imagine Spiderman's webbing to be like - instead of the more atomized spray of the 77. Again, spray both surfaces and then let it dry until tack, then press them together.

Another tip with headliners is to let them dry at least overnight in a warm, dry location before you put them back in the car. This lets the whole thing dry and cure without gravity trying to pull the material back away from the headliner backing material.

[samsonevickis]

I'm in the same boat, went the DIY route on my 840, but learned my lesson and will have it done professionally on the 750, I would be curious to see what it ends up costing you.

Are you going to do a suede/alacantra or regular cloth?

[racer2086]

This seems to be the best way to do it, but I don't think I have a car big enough to carry my E38's headliner. Unless you can somehow fit it in the car behind the front seats?

I removed mine in the parking lot of the place. Then reinstalled in the parking lot. Not the easiest thing to do, but once you remove the sunroof glass a couple times, it becomes super easy.

[Greygoose82]

Sorry to hear you went through such hell. Like others already mentioned, reusing the old fabric was a no go. Headliner Magic for instance is a good supplier to use along with headliner spray glue that's made for high temps. Sprays like a web pattern, allow it to dry briefly to tackiness and slowly apply pressure to follow the contours. Work section by section from center outwards.
I've never done one previously, but I spent one day to remove and clean everything. One day to prep and apply the new liner and one overnight for everything to dry. this included the sunroof cover too. Reinstalled on the third day and came out good as new. Yes, I do live on planet earth as this is very possible to do if you take your time with the right materials.

[Frankie]

...went the DIY route on my 840, but learned my lesson...Are you going to do a suede/alacantra or regular cloth?

A lesson indeed. Never again.

The reason I tried to retain the original fabric is because I don't like aftermarket choices: none are as nice as OEM. And definitely not suede. I had suede installed in my 840 and regretted it...made the car look ghetto-fabulous.

I hate dealing with issues like this: a lot of work for not-as-good-as-original results.

[xboss]

My 750 headliner and pillars wrapped right up with $20 a can 3m stuff. I used three cans and let both sides tack up. Used weights on the recesses and stuff and it came out like factory.

[Ruskii]

Hey Frankie, sorry to hear about your failed repair. I feel your pain! I tried to fix the sagging headliner in the rear: used proper headliner glue and paint rollers to make even pressure (no finger indents!). Looked great... for 1 day! The next day the old fabric separated again.

For those who have replaced the fabric (headliner and/or pillars) = did you use similar color of the new fabric as the original stuff? Curious only because of the plastic pieces like map lights, handlebars, etc.

[aom7]

For mine, I used the black alcantara with foam backing. For the handles, bezels, etc. I just used black interior trim paint (I forget the brand at the moment, but it was mentioned here before). It's been about 3 years, the black painted pieces are holding up well (no peeling, etc) and everything looks factory.

EDIT: and I used a black fabric spray paint to paint the sun visors (and actually, the rear decklid since I had that removed too and it was a little faded).

[Ruskii]

Perfect, thank you! I may have to duplicate your car

[clarkitect]

Here's an option too. Mine isn't falling down yet but I guess it's just a matter of time.

https://www.headlinerexpress.com/imp...e38-p-794.html

[aom7]

Perfect, thank you! I may have to duplicate your car

I think if you're going to put all that work in, going for an "upgrade" rather than the stock look makes the most sense. Also, my E39 M5 had a black alcantara headliner, so I feel that it's in keeping with BMW design (and brings back fond memories of that car for me!).

[xboss]

You can get black parts like visor lights and visors and stuff from x5 and 5 series parts.

[Frankie]

Just got a quote for $250 for headliner + sunroof panel + pillars. (Self-removal/installation.)

They won't do sun visors, as I suspected, since it's not a part covered with fabric, but instead is a part with integrated fabric (or something like that).

The material will be the standard issue "sand beige", which is a downgrade from OEM and slightly lighter in color...but there are no other good choices.

Not looking forward to it, but I will pull the trigger next week.

[BillConn]

Just got a quote for $250 for headliner + sunroof panel + pillars. (Self-removal/installation.)

They won't do sun visors, as I suspected, since it's not a part covered with fabric, but instead is a part with integrated fabric (or something like that).

The material will be the standard issue "sand beige", which is a downgrade from OEM and slightly lighter in color...but there are no other good choices.

Not looking forward to it, but I will pull the trigger next week.

Having the fabric not match would bother the hell out of me. I also don't like the look of Alcantara/Suede either. Did you check the link for www.headlinerexpress.com that posted earlier? They sell OEM BMW headliner fabric that would be a perfect match.
My headliner is still intact but I know it's just a matter of time. I try always park in the garage at home and use are parking garage at work to keep it out of the heat as much as possible....

[cazal740i]

Having the fabric not match would bother the hell out of me. I also don't like the look of Alcantara/Suede either. Did you check the link for www.headlinerexpress.com that posted earlier? They sell OEM BMW headliner fabric that would be a perfect match.
My headliner is still intact but I know it's just a matter of time. I try always park in the garage at home and use are parking garage at work to keep it out of the heat as much as possible....

nice find...