Input on selecting the right clutch for me?

[dirtdiggler]

Well the time has come and finally going turbo on the good old E36 M3. I have been looking at all kinds of clutches and just can't decide what one would be best for me. The plan is to build the most reliable street car with around a little over 400 torque to the wheels. I do plan to road race the car a little but more time attack than endurance as I'm sure the car in FI form wouldn't hold up. I have not really set a $$ limit yet so I am open to any ideas, but I'm really just looking for something that can hold tha power and be as nice to drive on the street as it can be.

Any help would be great,

[Butters Stoch]

Simple do you want to spend $1500 or $500 ? Both will handle the power you want. F1 racing grip force stage 3 for like $500 with FW is best for the money. Or spend $1500 on a twin disc that will handle 1000 HP you will never have. 400hp is a great number cause you can have the option of that F1 clutch. Stage 3 ceramic sprung hub and a chromoly FW.

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[milKt]

WHO's twin disc?

[bubbafett]

Butters is right. -But for a car that is primarily a street car or DD you will probably want it to feel stock but just hold the power, organic and maybe kevlar would be better for that application. The gripforce is a tested and proven setup, but allot of people only get around 25K on it. I just went through this choice I forked out $1300 for a south bend clutch stage 3 daily organic, and a solid steel flywheel. My second choice was a cultchmasters FX300 kevlar (on sale for $500) http://www.bimmerworld.com/Clutch-Ma...05-HDTZ-D.html
One of the factors that made me choose south bend is they rebuild their clutches for you if you sent them back in (as many times as the pressure plate/disc allows) for $200, so you pay up front but catch a break a few years down the road.

[milKt]

So, which twin disc?

Aren't there a FEW?

[Butters Stoch]

So, which twin disc?

Aren't there a FEW?

There are, you are well aware of that, and know just as much as the rest of us here. But I see your purpose of the posts so here's your answer that you already know. Keeping in mind I haven't been looking at clutches in a few years so pricing I don't know anymore. Since I got the twin I'm running, I don't see the need to.



Uuc twin; $1600? holds great power, has issues with things falling apart. Not sure exactly what but I think ACT fixes them for $50 ---> uuc then
$250-$500 ---> you (customer)

Clutchmasters
Fx725 ; 7.25" racing clutch.
Around $1400 complete
Holds power , tougher to drive
Clutch pedal throw 3-4". Shifts insanely fast not the most street friendly clutch.

Another clutchmasters
FX850 these are 8.5" discs.
Much more street friendly.
Holds loads of power. Around $1400-1500 as well iirc.

Both the fx725 and fx850 are light clutch kits. So if weight savings is a must, then these are for you. Reports show longevity aren't the greatest, but cab be rebuilt. Clutchmasters unlike uuc does have reports of great customer service. Products are generally all in stock and they get them out the door quick. No waiting for months given the runaround.

Competition Clutch.
Twin ceramic and twin organic.
This clutch appears to be the go to clutch for bog powers. If drag racing the ceramic is for you. Street cars can get away with the organic. Pricing is around $1250-1500 iirc
Great pedal feel, can be rebuilt and great customer service from what I have experienced. Personally I'm running the twin ceramic. I have loads of drag passes on it and street driving. Great clutch.
Only draw back, its heavy. They use a steel FW that weighs more than the FX725 itself. But, it does help load the turbo up and it doesn't bother me. Some want and need to have a light clutch. This one is heavy. But, probably the most drivable and will hold the most power.

There are also some hybrid clutches, Dburt and SM2800 have messed with some tilton stuff and m20 fw's I think. They would need to chime in.

As for single discs.

South bend is a good choice, stage 5 (not advertised) is a segmented ceramic. Pbonsalb runs this with years of abuse on it. Also lots of drag passes. But costly. Can run more than. The twin setups with a new FW.

gripforce FX 3/4 we covered that earlier in the thread.

ClutchNet
MilkT's choice clutch.
Great customer service, seems to be a good bang for the buck. Maybe a red setup with a eBay chromoly FW could be best bang for 600's HP/TQ.

There are probably more. Not sure. Said my $0.02

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[milKt]

I actually didn't know the options,
but a trucking fabulous post, nonelessnessman.

Your memory is sharp ---> knowing exactly which clutch I am running right now
though a perfect time to begin shopping..for me.

[bubbafett]

South bend is a good choice, stage 5 (not advertised) is a segmented ceramic.

You dont need stage 5 unless you make over 500 Ft-lbs torque. http://www.southbendclutch.com/listings.cfm

Also if you are making around 400HP at the wheels dont forget to figure in 18% more at the crank, which is what the clutch sees.

[someguy2800]

To me the clutch is the most important part of a build to get perfect. No matter how much power a car makes it will be miserable to drive if the clutch is all grabby and can't be modulated. I learned that leason the hard way. I would much rather have a $1500 clutch and a $500 turbo than a $500 clutch and a $1500 turbo. Like Butters said the nice thing about people at the 400-500 hp level is there are some economical options that are very nice to drive such as the ebay gripforce or a UUC cerametalic. Once you get in the 600-700 whp range there are still single discs to hold the power but most of them suck to drive. Anything over 700 whp and you pretty much have to plan for a $1500 clutch unless you want to hate it. The southbend stage 5 with sintered iron disc used to be the go to clutch for 600-800 whp but they were like $1000 without a flywheel. Its been a long time since I saw any mention of them.

[testify]

I'd recommend a South Bend Stage 3 Daily clutch. Holds 400ft-lbs and drives like stock. I have used their products and experienced the quality and longevity first-hand.

[pbonsalb]

I have been running the SB Stage 5 since 2010. Its a great clutch. I did fuse the disc to the flywheel at the dragstrip a few years ago, but SB resurfaced my flywheel and gave me a ceramic disk at no cost other than my shipping the parts to them. No issues with the ceramic disk though it is slightly grabbier. If you need to buy a flywheel in addition to the clutch, obviously add that cost in and you might find you are close to the cost of a twin disk that will hold even more power with even better pedal feel. I will go to a twin disk if I decide I want to make more than the probably 700/600 range where I might be now with an EFR9180 at 20 psi on an S52 with CES extreme port +1mm valve head and mild schricks.

[beeasy]

I run the southbend stage 5 and have had great results and not bad to drive. They rebuilt the clutch for cheap. If I recall correctly I think I spent around 250 in total with shipping. If your gonna use your currently flywheel its a great option. If your gonna replace the flywheel I'd go the twin disc route.

[TheJuggernaut]

I ran a single 4 puck clutch based on an E34 M5 clutch and UUC stg 2 wheel. It did fine to about 700whp and it started slipping in the high 700s. I got a feramic UUC twindisc now and it's been perfect. Not heavy, good engagement, no chatter, very surprising for such a grippy material. Tons of dyno pulls at 900whp and several track days and not a hint of giving up. It's going up for sale soon as I'm going with a domestic trans for which I have a 3 disc Tilton.

[dirtdiggler]

Anyone with experience on the south bend stage 3 street vs stage 3 endurance?

[testify]

I have read and heard that Kevlar clutches are prone to glazing over, and a few have experienced that with the south bend Kevlar products. From what I gather, an accidental over slipping of the clutch can quickly cause the issue. Its not very forgiving. Probably better suited for racing than DD.

[pbonsalb]

If you don't drag race, you can get by with less clutch. Get more clutch than you need if you want to drag race.

[mistrin]

I'm looking for very similar power and driving characteristics dirtdiggler. Has anyone had any experience with the UUC segmented kevlar clutch?

[Butters Stoch]

I'm looking for very similar power and driving characteristics dirtdiggler. Has anyone had any experience with the UUC segmented kevlar clutch?

I had one years ago M52 with a 35R. It held 17-18 psi on the street but fused it at the track. Maybe around 475-500whp 425-450tq. Stay off the drag strip with kevlar.

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[Quicker10u]

I love the UUC Twin Disc..I was actually surprised at how light it is compared to other 500hp+ setups I've driven. Yes, it's pricey, but easy to drive and able to live at my power levels. Never buy a clutch rated right at what your engine makes...Nothing worse than your car making great power and all of the sudden the clutch starts slipping in 4th-5th....

[NOTORIOUS VR]

+1 for the UUC twin (organic), it's a fantastic clutch to drive... engagement is great, pedal is light... even in DD/traffic conditions it's never an issue.

Once thing I absolutely hate about it is that is BARKS when you engage it hard either off a stop or between a shift. The sound is horrendous.

[Quicker10u]

Matt actually took a video of the noise before I bought the car to explain it to me that it's normal. I'd say its more of a HONK than a BARK...Either way, I am in full agreement that it is a horrendous sound.

[bmuum3]

I had the competition clutch installed. It was perfect for DD. Smooth engagement and not super heavy.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Matt actually took a video of the noise before I bought the car to explain it to me that it's normal. I'd say its more of a HONK than a BARK...Either way, I am in full agreement that it is a horrendous sound.

I recently had my clutch out due to a failed pilot bearing and my UUC twin after 4 years of use/abuse looked to be in great shape. So while the engagement HONK/BARK might be normal and not a sign of anything wrong it still sounds ugly lol.

[mistrin]

Thanks for all the input. I failed to mention that I went with a UUC ceremetallic clutch 8 years ago when my stock clutch started slipping, thinking I was going to add more power to my car and may as well put in something that could handle my unknown future HP quest. I currently have an old Dinan setup, putting out 290 hp to the rear wheels. I still haven't added the additional 100 hp I want, but just wanted to comment that any noise from the next clutch I purchase is something I want to avoid - the ceremetallic clutch I have makes an ear piercing squeal when I try to take of from a stop in a civil manner. Brings new meaning to the phrase "this car really turns heads when I drive by". If I want to drop the clutch it hooks and goes. My fault, I bought the wrong clutch for what I wanted to do. I'm sure it would be great on the track. So bark or honk takes the UUC twin disc off the list of potentials for me. Any other recommendations for organics that are street friendly and can handle 400 rwhp?

[bubbafett]

Any other recommendations for organics that are street friendly and can handle 400 rwhp?

See post #4

I just went through this choice I forked out $1300 for a south bend clutch stage 3 daily organic (holds 400HP conservative rating) and flywheel.