Value/rarity of 1993 e34 525ix touring 5 speed manual

[nickjd]

Hello! I have a very fascinating car. I love it. I bought it for very cheap because of the rust problems and I've had it for 3 years and have barely driven it (mostly because it's retardedly expensive to have two cars taxed/insured in Sweden, and it's not going to be a reliable car due to the AWD system!)

It's a 1993 e34 525ix touring 5 speed manual. It's the last year they made it with the "Computer Controlled" rear LSD and center transfer case.

I'm conflicted if I should sell it or not or if I should keep it and restore it as a collectors car. I currently live in Sweden with my wife and baby, but we will move back to the US in the next year or two. Since the car is made in 1993, it's eligible for import soon when it is 25 years old.

I did a search of the largest used car site in europe (autoscout24). They have sites for every country and you can search for the whole EU. There's only one e34 525ix touring with a manual for sale on the entire continent on that site and it's the later model which doesn't have a rear limited slip diff or limited slip transfer case (it uses the brakes like some modern AWD systems do to limit slip).

I read they made about 12,000 of the e34 M5 and 9,000 of the 525ix and the M5 is worth quite a lot in good condition, not that this will ever reach that level. Only from 1991 to 1993 did they use the better AWD system. Only 10% were touring, so it's one of 900. Then only 20% were manual. Assuming the same proportion of tourings were manuals, it's one of 180 ever made. And because of the limited years the car was made with the better AWD system makes it one of less than 100 cars like it!



That makes it extremely rare. I'm very conflicted now! It is an absolute BEAST in the snow. The most intuitive driving experience I've ever had doing four wheel drifts on ice roads and hard packed snow. Even with the worn bushings and ball joints, it makes you feel like an expert driver.

I'm curious what people think about this car. Would this be worth anything in the US to the right buyer once restored? Or is it likely only going to have a personal value?
_MG_5574.jpg

[ross1]

It would be desirable in the US but given the cost to transport and the lack of parts to service here you probably wouldn't be able to recover the cost of a restoration.

[nickjd]

True, it would be expensive. Shipping from port to port is surprisingly only about $1500, but a lot of time and money would be consumed in even doing enough to get it in presentable condition. However, it would be a personal project that I'd keep for a while.

I'm wondering if this would potentially ever be a collectible car like many of the M models are, or would it only be of interest to a very few enthusiasts? It's impossible to know for sure, but I'd be curious if people have any opinions on this car.

[Kannackas]

I'm wondering if this would potentially ever be a collectible car like many of the M models are, or would it only be of interest to a very few enthusiasts? It's impossible to know for sure, but I'd be curious if people have any opinions on this car.

It will never be a collectors car, that I can promise. Do it if its worth it to you, don't do it as an investment. I'm pretty sure the only e34 collectible will be m5T and euro 95' models.

[moroza]

What is this "collectibility" nonsense? Who cares what it's worth to Adam Smith's invisible hand; what's it worth to you? Cars are meant to be driven. If the car drives as well as you describe - and I believe it - then that is its value: high. As someone who's worked on the idiotic three-open-diffs X-drive system, I'd second that the earlier, (mostly) mechanical system of this one makes it more valuable. By all means import it over here. If the body's rusty, swap the body; I bet the unique front subframe and other pieces will bolt right on to a bare RWD E34 shell.

(I happen to have such a shell... sort of)

$1500? Is that RORO? I was living in Norway for a while and looking into shipping my car over, and was seeing quotes of about three times that for a half-container to Bremerhaven.

[nickjd]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate knowing what people think about this car.

I suppose the collectibility thing is sort of nonsense in a way. I just figure that if I had a 1993 Corolla that somehow had sentimental value, it wouldn't make sense to take it across the world because it's hardly even worth its weight in scrap metal. So I want to make sure that I bring something over that's actually worth something.

I also figure that this is the first and last car ever made that is a touring, manual, straight six, all with a superb AWD system. The only thing you could compare it to is some of the Audis, but they all look so boring and lame even if they may have been fairly nice for the time. The e34 is brilliantly styled. I mean, compare that to any Subaru of the time... bleh. Just cheap plastic and ugly styling, even if they did have OK engines and a nice AWD system.

[moroza]

I just figure that if I had a 1993 Corolla that somehow had sentimental value, it wouldn't make sense to take it across the world

Not because it's a Corolla per se, but because you could 1. get another just like it for a lot less than the cost of shipping, or 2. get something else that checks the same boxes. That combination - smallish FF 4-banger with good economy, good comfort, great reliability, and not much else - is dime a dozen. The combination you have here -

touring, manual, straight six, all with a superb AWD system.

- is, as you're aware, much harder to replace, and is valuable to you. (and me )

Subaru? Yeah, the early 90's ones are hideous and none drive half as well as a BMW, but their early drivelines that allow FWD or AWD are superior, from a performance and durability point of view.

[nickjd]

My thoughts exactly! Do you think there is anything remotely equivalent that was ever sold in the US? I've never driven the 90's Audis, but I guess they aren't too bad and might be easier to find already legally in the US. Audi did have some nice 5 cylinder and V6 engines, though IMHO the straight six is superior in every way lol. And in the very limited anecdotal evidence that I've seen, Audis from that generation had better rust protection than the same generation BMW.

I think if I never owned a BMW before, a Subaru would be a nice car to drive. But as you say, it would be hard to go backwards a few steps lol. After having my e39 for 8 years, every other car seems noisy and rides bad.

[BleedsBlue]

Just a note about collectability in the U.S.: a total of 12k+ E34 Ms of various configurations were produced, but less than 1700 came to North America. That makes them only slightly more numerous than the E28 M5, and far more rare than the E30 M3.

But, less than 1 525ixs came here where new

Ross is accurate in that shipping your car here and restoring it to an as-new, or even competent driver status, will likely eat into any profits. But I think in the current '90s-friendly market, with E34 Ms pulling a bit stronger money, and with sales sites like Bring a Trailer, you could do pretty well with that car with a fresh suspension and no rust.

I'm actually in a similar boat (with a rusty, JDM-imported 540i Touring, also never sold new here), and it's basically no-mans land between those with collector E34 M5 money, and your regular E34 buyer. I think the key factor is that you aren't likely to lose a great deal on the proposition, if you do your own work and are patient when selling.

Moroza is of course also correct: you should import it and fix it up regardless of eventual value, since you like driving and owning it.

[moroza]

My thoughts exactly! Do you think there is anything remotely equivalent that was ever sold in the US? I've never driven the 90's Audis, but I guess they aren't too bad and might be easier to find already legally in the US. Audi did have some nice 5 cylinder and V6 engines, though IMHO the straight six is superior in every way lol. And in the very limited anecdotal evidence that I've seen, Audis from that generation had better rust protection than the same generation BMW.

6-pot (ideally straight-6), manual, mechanical AWD (sort of), wagon, good ride and handling, and otherwise comparable to an E34? Hmm...

E30 325iX had no wagons on this side of the pond.
Audis still don't ride or drive as well, and they're a pain to work on (spoken from experience). I'll add my own anecdotal evidence that they seem fairly resistant to rust.
Mercedes 4Matic (W124 in particular) are comparable if not superior in quality overall, but are all slushboxes*. I have no personal hands-on experience, but hear scary things about maintenance. 4Matic is similar to early X-drive in that it has mechanical diff locks, electronically controlled.
Camry Alltrac were all 4-bangers AFAIK, and don't handle or look half as good, but are about as comfortable, and easier to maintain.
Early Subarus are inferior in overall quality; later ones are much closer to an E34 if still not... quite there. Still, you might look into one with the 3.0 or 3.3? Speaking as a fellow straight-six fan, I wouldn't turn my nose up at a flat-six. The sixes were all automatics; I have no idea what the realities of a manual swap are like.

Some Nissan Skylines (not the GTR) had exactly what you want, but were never sold here.

*Apparently there were manual 4Matics, but definitely not sold here.

[BleedsBlue]

If we're talking equivalent cars sold in the U.S., for me I would trade for an UrS6 Avant. I have a few anecdotal experiences with them being absolute tanks (turbo 5, mechanical, locking AWD, 5 speed).

[nickjd]

Thank you for the interesting discussion!

BleedsBlue, very true. I actually believe that someone imported a 525ix on the east coast. So I guess I'd have half of this model in North America lol.

I wouldn't necessarily be looking to make profits, because I do enjoy doing work on cars and of course I love driving them. I'd likely have to pay someone to do some work due to time and experience limitations but I can do a lot of stuff myself. I'm also an engineer, not that this means much with practical experience haha.

Did they ever have the S6 models as a touring in the US? Or were they all sedans? I'm not sure if I've ever seen an old S Audi wagon in the US. I had a friend with a 1994 S4 with the V8. It sounded like a really fun car for the occasional winter drive. It absolutely guzzled gas!

Moroza, I never heard of AWD Mercedes from that generation. That's pretty cool. After some googling, they look pretty capable in the snow. Mercedes is certainly known for their seemingly unnecessary engineering, even if it is very high quality. So I'd certainly believe that they can be a mechanical nightmare.


So I think the conclusion is that this really is a unique car that and would be a shame to sell, mostly because there isn't anything quite like it with the qualities it has (drivetrain, wagon, styling).

[BleedsBlue]

Did they ever have the S6 models as a touring in the US? Or were they all sedans? I'm not sure if I've ever seen an old S Audi wagon in the US. I had a friend with a 1994 S4 with the V8. It sounded like a really fun car for the occasional winter drive. It absolutely guzzled gas!

Yep, that's the "Avant" term (wagon or touring). The Ur-S4 was sedan only; confusingly, that model morphed into the S6 despite being the same chassis. I believe the early S6 wagons are '94-'95, they are fairly rare but absolutely a cool car.

A good friend went a bought one with over 200k after we went to lunch and I was pontificating about them, lol. It's been fairly solid given the Audi stigma and the mileage.

The turbo 5 with a few bolt-ons sounds like an old Quattro rally car, and hauls azz on loose surfaces just as well.

So I think the conclusion is that this really is a unique car that and would be a shame to sell, mostly because there isn't anything quite like it with the qualities it has (drivetrain, wagon, styling).

Agreed 100%.

[moroza]

Agreed as well.

I'm not as well-versed in Audis, what came out where and with what engines, but here's a datapoint: a 94 (?) S4 with the L5 turbo felt ridiculously nose-heavy in even routine driving. Dangling such a long engine all the way ahead of the front axle is downright stupid. I wasn't impressed with its power delivery (laaaaag), absolute power, or Laufkultur, either; any six-cylinder BMW blows it out of the water. Oh, and when you started the car, the sunroof would open.

I got bored and looked further into two examples listed above. Apparently, some early-00's Subies did come with 6 cylinders and 3 pedals. As for 4Matic, it came out in 87 and was comparable to early X-Drive, with the major difference that it was normally RWD and would engage the front driveline on demand (of the computer, not the driver). Unlike BMW, Mercedes has considerable experience with proper 4WD systems (see: Unimog, G-wagen).

[BleedsBlue]

Understeer is a given in an Audi for sure. It can be tuned out to an extent with mods and driving style, but you'll never hear me compare the neutrality or sporty dynamics with an E34, for sure. An old S6 is worlds better to drive than a Subaru, though.

I'm probably not using a fair comparo to the OP's car, since my experience with S6s involve full bolt-ons and lots of other tasty mods.

[nickjd]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and practical experiences with these other cars. I'll keep an eye out for those old Mercedes. I never really thought of that, but that's a good point they did have experience with 4WD systems even back then.

I'm sure my wife will be super happy to keep this old car in the driveway for even longer! :p

[BleedsBlue]

One egregious offense you have left committed is a LACK OF PICTURES, of both this and your E39 diesel Touring. These are both super rare cool Euro hotness for us!

[wmrcs]

One egregious offense you have left committed is a LACK OF PICTURES, of both this and your E39 diesel Touring. These are both super rare cool Euro hotness for us!

Agreed

[nickjd]

Haha, sorry about that! I have lots of photos.
In the Austrian Alps:
_MG_4076.jpg
Doing some mountain climbing in Norway in the 530d:
_MG_1604.jpg_MG_1601.jpg

Camping in Sweden:
_MG_2612.jpg
On my move from Austria to Sweden. Two bikes on back, 5 tires on top, ski box on top. Inside fully loaded!
_MG_5107.jpg

[nickjd]

In the Slovenian Alps. This is a long exposure with nothing but moonlight. I moved quickly and flashed a camera flash to make the "spark" above the car.
_MG_3288.jpg
_MG_5571.jpg
This was when I got the car. It has the "I'm Swedish and I-have-a-tiny-d!ck-and-I-want-to-compensate-for-it-somehow-by-blinding-everyone-else lights".
2014-01-31 12.37.38.jpg
I made a really bad video with the e34 (which I call the SnOhio Racer lol). I just need to figure out how to share it. I don't have many photos of the e34 since I haven't driven it much.

[moroza]

That second pic made my day. What color is that? The condition of the lower doors does suggest significant rust... how bad is it really?

[nickjd]

Glad you liked it! You can see how steep the incline is by looking at how the other car in the photo is parked. I was pretty high up and zoomed wayyy in with a telephoto lens to get that shot. My 530d has 395k km on the clock now, btw. I've driven it about 168k km on my own. I've had it for 8 years since I bought it in 2009 in Munich. Since then, I've registered it in Austria and Sweden for studies and work.

The e39 doesn't have significant rust problems, though it does need some touchups in some places. The e34 would need new doors, basically. The front fenders would need replaced as well. The floor is rusted through under the drivers footwell. The subframe and chassis rails are in remarkable condition though. The suspension would need a complete overhaul. It has 300k km on the clock and it certainly was abused.

One problem with the 525ix is that the chassis is different from the standard RWD e34 from the driver's footwell forward. The front strut towers are angled differently. Fortunately, that part of the chassis is in surprisingly good condition. It could be blasted and painted no problem.

A good body shop should be able to get and install replacement e34 panels for the floor and other parts. Otherwise, fabricating a new floor for the small sections that need replaced wouldn't be impossible either.

[BleedsBlue]

I was just ruminating on how cool it would be to build up a 525ix Touring, and thought I would dig this up.

Any updates, OP?

[nickjd]

I think I'll be able to import it to the US sometime in 2019. I have a Canadian friend who imports euro cars to Canada and I'll help him find something to his liking from where I live where roads aren't salted so much. My 525ix is in bad shape, but I like the idea of having a project car that would be totally unique and impossible to find a new version of.

[wannaBMthree]

I think I'll be able to import it to the US sometime in 2019. I have a Canadian friend who imports euro cars to Canada and I'll help him find something to his liking from where I live where roads aren't salted so much. My 525ix is in bad shape, but I like the idea of having a project car that would be totally unique and impossible to find a new version of.

Name your price.